What do Eastern Catholics think of the OCA?

[Vico]

Bishop Ortynsky was not granted ordinary jurisdiction until May 28, 1913. He was ordinary for Ukrainians and Ruthenians; his appointment came before the time of separate ordinaries.

The OCA traces its history to the original Russian orthodox mission in the late 1700’s. It changed its name in the Toth era, for strategic reasons, and again when contact with the MP was disrupted, and again with it became the OCA.

ACROD split from the BCC, avoided the ROGCC, and established a new jurisdiction under the EP. It did not split from the ROGCC.

There are some parishes in the US directly under the MP, having decided to remain apart from ROCOR, OCA, ACROD, etc.

Thank you for the corrections. I see that Fr. Orestes Chornock did not join the ROGCC the year prior to petition to acceptance by the Ecumenical Patriarch.

Yes, the OCA precursor did have a mix of Russian Orthodox and Ruthenian Greek Catholics (mentioned in item 2 in the original post).

I used www.gcatholic.com which lists the date range 1907.02.28 – 1916.03.24. Did they get it wrong?

gcatholic.org/hierarchy/data/bishops-41.htm#7735

 

[Peter_J]

LOL - I know what you mean! Perhaps I should have said that’s how it’s supposed to work!

Still, whether the dissenters like it or not, to be a Catholic really does mean that you accept the Church as headed by the Pope as the final authority; and that’s just not the same in Orthodoxy.

I guess it’s kind of like the saying that “Possession is nine-tenths of the law.” If someone who is Catholic doesn’t agree with e.g. the Immaculate Conception, the Pope probably isn’t going to excommunicate him/her. But neither is the Pope going to tell a non-Catholic Christian (especially an Orthodox) “Oh, don’t worry about the I.C. business. If we can add you to our ranks, that’s all we care about.”

 

[Peter_J]

ACROD split from the BCC, avoided the ROGCC, and established a new jurisdiction under the EP. It did not split from the ROGCC.

That’s my understanding also.

 

[WetCatechumen]

As many are aware the Orthodox Church in America was originally Eastern Catholic, perhaps related to Ruthenians,

Their original title was Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic.

When they originally came came to the states they were were expected to merge with the Latin Catholics. The Irish and German bishops refused to grant faculties to their married priests and so they went back to Orthodoxy.

What do people here think about their situation now?

Are any members of the OCA?

The situation has changed and now married priests are recognized and given faculties by most EC bishops.

Do you think they can return to Eastern Catholicism, or have they lost interest? Is their too much bad blood and history for reunion to happen?

I personally find it absolutely heart-breaking. The Ruthenians were betrayed by the Roman bishops in the United States, and in trying to practice their religion as they always had, they Russified themselves and lost themselves. The Ruthenian Catholic Church USA would be so much stronger had this not happened.

Most people who are in the OCA in the Western United States do not realize the history of their church. I went to Holy Thursday last night at the local Greek parish - one of my friends there is a former Presbyterian who has an MDiv from Princeton - her grandmother was baptized in the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church of America, and she was Hungarian. Her family was Ruthenian - and now she is Orthodox, and some of her family members have died Protestant.

I don’t know how we can have Union. We already had the Unia, and many chose another path. It bugs me that we plead and dialogue so intensely with the Russians and the Greeks for Union, but the Melkites, the Ruthenians, the Ukrainians - we have all been faithful for the last few hundred years. And yet the schismatics find our existence wholly distasteful and an impediment to union.

 

[theistgal]

But neither is the Pope going to tell a non-Catholic Christian (especially an Orthodox) “Oh, don’t worry about the I.C. business. If we can add you to our ranks, that’s all we care about.”

Yet that’s precisely the impression that’s been conveyed to Eastern Catholics re: the I.C. - that we don’t have to worry about assenting to it as long as we assent to the authority of the Pope. At least IMHO.

 

[Peter_J]

Yet that’s precisely the impression that’s been conveyed to Eastern Catholics re: the I.C. - that we don’t have to worry about assenting to it as long as we assent to the authority of the Pope. At least IMHO.

Perhaps so.

I always say that if I were EO I wouldn’t “jump ship” and become EC (or LC for that matter); but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going “jump ship” and become EO.

 

[Lester_S]

Perhaps so.

I always say that if I were EO I wouldn’t “jump ship” and become EC (or LC for that matter); but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going “jump ship” and become EO.

Agreed. Though I feel the pull of Orthodoxy, at times, I understand I have to let the Holy Spirit guide me, beyond reason, into it. I can’t do this in haste; and that would go for any EO considering union w/ Rome.

 

[Aramis]

The OCA was granted Autocephaly in 1976…long after WWI and well into the communication age.

It was granted full autonomy in 1919. The Russian hierarchy realized that they might not survive the Reds…

 

[Nine_Two]

And yet the schismatics find our existence wholly distasteful and an impediment to union.

Your turn of phrase aside, I don’t think I’d say we find your existence distasteful any more than we find the existence of a non-Orthodox Rome to be distasteful, or than Rome finds our existence to be distasteful.

However the overwhelming feeling seems to be that the Eastern Catholics cannot help with restoring Communion between Rome and Orthodoxy. They have most definitely gone down a path we wish to avoid. We do find the idea of a union with Rome that looks like that to be distasteful.

 

[Peter_J]

Your turn of phrase aside, I don’t think I’d say we find your existence distasteful any more than we find the existence of a non-Orthodox Rome to be distasteful, or than Rome finds our existence to be distasteful.

I was almost going to comment on his turn of phrase myself; but that aside, I think there are many people (on both sides) who don’t really separate the existence of Greek Catholics Churches from the historical use of them as an instrument to “bring over” Eastern Orthodox.

However the overwhelming feeling seems to be that the Eastern Catholics cannot help with restoring Communion between Rome and Orthodoxy.

That’s fair. (Hell, I wouldn’t even expect the Western-Rite Orthodox to be a help with restoring Communion between Rome and Orthodoxy.)

 

[theistgal]

Your turn of phrase aside, I don’t think I’d say we find your existence distasteful any more than we find the existence of a non-Orthodox Rome to be distasteful, or than Rome finds our existence to be distasteful.

However the overwhelming feeling seems to be that the Eastern Catholics cannot help with restoring Communion between Rome and Orthodoxy. They have most definitely gone down a path we wish to avoid. We do find the idea of a union with Rome that looks like that to be distasteful.

How many Eastern Catholic churches have you personally visited? How many Eastern Catholics do you personally know?

I keep seeing comments like this (about how “distasteful” our existence in union with Rome is) and frankly I am starting to take it personally.

 

[Peter_J]

How many Eastern Catholic churches have you personally visited? How many Eastern Catholics do you personally know?

I keep seeing comments like this (about how “distasteful” our existence in union with Rome is) and frankly I am starting to take it personally.

Not that I can speak for Nine_Two, but I take his comment to mean that Eastern Catholicism (or at least Greek Catholicism) is, shall we say, “close to home” for them. Whereas they wouldn’t be too bothered by the Latin Catholics, but with Greek Catholics they might feel like someone is saying “This you should be!”

 

[Nine_Two]

How many Eastern Catholic churches have you personally visited? How many Eastern Catholics do you personally know?

I keep seeing comments like this (about how “distasteful” our existence in union with Rome is) and frankly I am starting to take it personally.

My apologies, I was trying to say that we do not find the existence of Eastern Catholics to be particularly distasteful. It is the form of the union we have issues with. While it is great if it works for Eastern Catholics, it shouldn’t be put forth as a template for union. That is where we begin to have issues.

 

[Peter_J]

it shouldn’t be put forth as a template for union.

Exactly. Hence why I continue to to call it “switching sides” when an Eastern Orthodox becomes Catholic, despite the proposal by some posters (not just Catholics, but some Anglicans and Lutherans as well, iirc) that we stop calling it that.

 

[ConstantineTG]

As an Eastern Catholic, I think that the OCA is awesome. So much so I decided to join them

 

[andrewstx]

As an Eastern Catholic, I think that the OCA is awesome. So much so I decided to join them

In your case would it be Orthodox Church in Asia?

 

[ConstantineTG]

In your case would it be Orthodox Church in Asia?

No, I belong to the OCC. Orthodox Church in Canada
Or OCNA, Orthodox Church in North America.
I think my longer version is, Orthodox Church outside of America in Canada

 

[Peter_J]

As an Eastern Catholic, I think that the OCA is awesome. So much so I decided to join them

Hey don’t make me come over there!

(I wasn’t sure if your post deserved a “Hey don’t make me come over there” but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. )

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hey don’t make me come over there!

(I wasn’t sure if your post deserved a “Hey don’t make me come over there” but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. )

I would love for you to come over here. It’s bright week, let’s have a barbecue.

 

[Nine_Two]

No, I belong to the OCC. Orthodox Church in Canada
Or OCNA, Orthodox Church in North America.
I think my longer version is, Orthodox Church outside of America in Canada

'tis a silly place, the Orthodox Church in America in Canada.