What do folks think of the Bereans?

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Acts 17:10:
10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas to Beroea during the night. Upon arrival they went to the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These Jews were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all willingness and examined the scriptures daily to determine whether these things were so.
Here we have an example of individuals who are praised for (I still like the term “noble” from some of the older translations) listening to what is presented to them as Apostolic teaching, then taking the Scriptures (in this case the Old Testament) and using them to determine for themselves whether this teaching is in line with the Scriptures.

Do others agree or disagree with Luke’s positive assessment of the Bereans and their approach to verifying Apostolic teaching?
 
Here we have an example of individuals who are praised for (I still like the term “noble” from some of the older translations) listening to what is presented to them as Apostolic teaching, then taking the Scriptures (in this case the Old Testament) and using them to determine for themselves whether this teaching is in line with the Scriptures.

Do others agree or disagree with Luke’s positive assessment of the Bereans and their approach to verifying Apostolic teaching?
I both agree with Luke’s assessment as well as their approach to verifying Apostolic teaching.

It was using that approach which led me to The Catholic Church over a 30 year period.

God bless all!!!
 
Here we have an example of individuals who are praised for (I still like the term “noble” from some of the older translations) listening to what is presented to them as Apostolic teaching, then taking the Scriptures (in this case the Old Testament) and using them to determine for themselves whether this teaching is in line with the Scriptures.

Do others agree or disagree with Luke’s positive assessment of the Bereans and their approach to verifying Apostolic teaching?
In general it’s a good thing - but don’t forget to read on further to where, in spite of their praiseworthy scripture searching, these Bereans are nonetheless swayed from the truth by troublemakers from elsewhere and end up driving Paul out of town! As Dr Phil would say ‘how’s that workin’ for ya?’

So it doesn’t seem like imitating them is any iron-clad guarantee that you will recognise and (more importantly) stick to the truth even if you do find it!
 
I both agree with Luke’s assessment as well as their approach to verifying Apostolic teaching.

It was using that approach which led me to The Catholic Church over a 30 year period.

God bless all!!!
Thanks for sharing-some folks seem to feel differently about using Scripture to assess Apostolic claims, I was hoping to find some who had done so with positive results.
In general it’s a good thing - but don’t forget to read on further to where, in spite of their praiseworthy scripture searching, these Bereans are nonetheless swayed from the truth by troublemakers from elsewhere and end up driving Paul out of town! As Dr Phil would say ‘how’s that workin’ for ya?’

So it doesn’t seem like imitating them is any iron-clad guarantee that you will recognise and (more importantly) stick to the truth even if you do find it!
A good point, some of the city residents did take a dislike to Paul (perhaps some that believed or perhaps not) and further on we read that at least some of those that believed as a result of verifying the Apostolic message clung to their belief as Silas and Timothy stuck around to take care of them with no apparent harm coming to them.

(it just seems like Paul riled some folks up 😃 )

Some things haven’t changed since then. Thanks for sharing. 🙂
 
Thanks for sharing-some folks seem to feel differently about using Scripture to assess Apostolic claims, I was hoping to find some who had done so with positive results.
I was not raised Catholic. I was a protestant with some very definite anit-Catholic beliefs. I based my protestant faith on the Bible…the scriptures.

As time progressed, and as I studied the scriptures more and more, I was surprised to find that Catholic teachings were more consistent with the scriptures than protestant teachings…generally speaking.

That was not what I desired to discover. And I was torn between being honest in what I discovered, or continuing to kick the Catholic Church. It took much much much prayer to make the final decision, but I found it almost impossible to make the decision without being convinced from scripture. When my last issue was resolved in scripture, I stepped forward in faith and could join/reconcile with the Catholic Church.

It is a decision that I feel blessed to have been led to make. I’m 50 years old and wish that I had found this sooner…but God works with us to the extent that we allow Him. Perhaps my own sins prevented me from making the decision earlier in life, I do not know for sure. But I am more thankful than anyone can imagine to be here now.

I now understand the joy of finding and buying that field with a pearl of great price buried in it.

I pray daily that God will lead others who are searching as wonderfully as he led me…and He WILL if we just ask Him…and then listen to Him!

God bless all!!!
 
Don’t forget that the Bereans were compairing the claims about Jesus to the OT prophacies. They were not compairing one apostle against another.

The concept of saying “This is what I see in Paul and I could care less what you think” is NOT what was commendable. What was commendable was that instead of walking away, they let the Holy SPirit work in them
 
I think you will find this article interesting concerning the Bereans and scripture.

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9703fea3.asp
Thanks for offering it-I must say I’m surprised to see the thesis Ray puts forth-previous writings of his that I’ve read are much more in line with the text. He wants to attack sola scriptura and bends the text to meet his needs.

I don’t want to get into an extended discussion of it here (feel free to PM or start a thread specifically on the article) but in a nutshell, he glosses over the clear passage in the text that says the Jews attacked Paul out of jealously, not a rejection of “additional revelation”. Those in Thessalonika who listened to Paul and searched the Scriptures found the necessary proof to believe his message as the passage tells us. The Bereans were commended because no such jealous faction existed among them before the Thessalonians arrived. Ray also clearly tries to minimize the Bereans’ use of Scripture to validate Paul’s message when the text is more than clear on it.

If there are other articles on the topic that you think would be helpful I’ll be glad to take a look at them.
I was not raised Catholic. I was a protestant with some very definite anit-Catholic beliefs. I based my protestant faith on the Bible…the scriptures.

As time progressed, and as I studied the scriptures more and more, I was surprised to find that Catholic teachings were more consistent with the scriptures than protestant teachings…generally speaking.

That was not what I desired to discover. And I was torn between being honest in what I discovered, or continuing to kick the Catholic Church. It took much much much prayer to make the final decision, but I found it almost impossible to make the decision without being convinced from scripture. When my last issue was resolved in scripture, I stepped forward in faith and could join/reconcile with the Catholic Church.

It is a decision that I feel blessed to have been led to make. I’m 50 years old and wish that I had found this sooner…but God works with us to the extent that we allow Him. Perhaps my own sins prevented me from making the decision earlier in life, I do not know for sure. But I am more thankful than anyone can imagine to be here now.

I now understand the joy of finding and buying that field with a pearl of great price buried in it.

I pray daily that God will lead others who are searching as wonderfully as he led me…and He WILL if we just ask Him…and then listen to Him!

God bless all!!!
Very interesting! A number of Catholic apologists have stated that Scripture is more than sufficient to confirm Catholic dogma while others reject that position. I’m glad it worked out for you. 🙂
Don’t forget that the Bereans were compairing the claims about Jesus to the OT prophacies. They were not compairing one apostle against another.

The concept of saying “This is what I see in Paul and I could care less what you think” is NOT what was commendable. What was commendable was that instead of walking away, they let the Holy SPirit work in them
You raise a good point-would you say that all of the Apostles’ messages about Jesus would line up with Old Testament revelation?

I agree with your final point as well 🙂
 
Thanks for offering it-I must say I’m surprised to see the thesis Ray puts forth-previous writings of his that I’ve read are much more in line with the text. He wants to attack sola scriptura and bends the text to meet his needs.

I don’t want to get into an extended discussion of it here (feel free to PM or start a thread specifically on the article) but in a nutshell, he glosses over the clear passage in the text that says the Jews attacked Paul out of jealously, not a rejection of “additional revelation”. Those in Thessalonika who listened to Paul and searched the Scriptures found the necessary proof to believe his message as the passage tells us. The Bereans were commended because no such jealous faction existed among them before the Thessalonians arrived. Ray also clearly tries to minimize the Bereans’ use of Scripture to validate Paul’s message when the text is more than clear on it.

If there are other articles on the topic that you think would be helpful I’ll be glad to take a look at them.

Very interesting! A number of Catholic apologists have stated that Scripture is more than sufficient to confirm Catholic dogma while others reject that position. I’m glad it worked out for you. 🙂

You raise a good point-would you say that all of the Apostles’ messages about Jesus would line up with Old Testament revelation?

I agree with your final point as well 🙂
It never says that the Bereans attacked him. He is talking about the Thessolonians while he was in Thessolonia. Then the Thessolonians came to try to stirr up trouble once they heard he was there. I think you are taking this out of context brother. The Bereans did consult the scriptures but they also listened to the Apostolic Authority. What do we have here? They were using Apostolic tradition and scripture.
 
It never says that the Bereans attacked him. He is talking about the Thessolonians while he was in Thessolonia. Then the Thessolonians came to try to stirr up trouble once they heard he was there. I think you are taking this out of context brother. The Bereans did consult the scriptures but they also listened to the Apostolic Authority. What do we have here? They were using Apostolic tradition and scripture.
As LilyM pointed out above, some of the Thessalonians came and stirred up some Berean citizens (not necessarily those Bereans who believed the message of Paul after verifying it, but some of the citizens) so that Paul had to be taken out of the area.

And of course the Bereans listened to Paul’s teaching as Luke tells us. After listening, they verified his teaching against the Old Testament (the scriptures they had at the time) which they were already familiar with and when Paul’s teaching lined up with the scriptures the Bereans accepted his Apostolic teaching.

It seems to me that Luke was pointing out that there was no conflict between Paul’s message and the Old Testament and that anyone who took the trouble to compare the two, as the Bereans did, would see that Paul’s message was correct.
 
"A strange and most glorious mystery do I see."
—Saint John Chrysostom


This actually is from the Christmas canon (hymn) by St. John of Damascus.
 
As LilyM pointed out above, some of the Thessalonians came and stirred up some Berean citizens (not necessarily those Bereans who believed the message of Paul after verifying it, but some of the citizens) so that Paul had to be taken out of the area.

And of course the Bereans listened to Paul’s teaching as Luke tells us. After listening, they verified his teaching against the Old Testament (the scriptures they had at the time) which they were already familiar with and when Paul’s teaching lined up with the scriptures the Bereans accepted his Apostolic teaching.

It seems to me that Luke was pointing out that there was no conflict between Paul’s message and the Old Testament and that anyone who took the trouble to compare the two, as the Bereans did, would see that Paul’s message was correct.
Right, using Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture…Just as the Catholic Church teaches. Pauls message was about Jesus Christ and His teachings that were passed on through Sacred Tradition. The only thing in OT was prophetic messages and Typology of Jesus Christ.(In pertaining to his message to the Bereans) It didn’t state his teachings in the OT. Therefore, Paul was using scripture and tradition which the Bereans accepted making them more noble-minded than the Thessolonians.
 
Right, using Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture…Just as the Catholic Church teaches. Pauls message was about Jesus Christ and His teachings that were passed on through Sacred Tradition. The only thing in OT was prophetic messages and Typology of Jesus Christ.(In pertaining to his message to the Bereans) It didn’t state his teachings in the OT. Therefore, Paul was using scripture and tradition which the Bereans accepted making them more noble-minded than the Thessolonians.
Yes, Paul taught the Apostolic teachings and referred to the Scriptures (likely something similar to Peter’s sermons in Acts or what Stephen said to the mob)

I wouldn’t be too hasty to limit what th Bereans could glean from the OT-there was lots of information on the nature of God, the nature of humanity, all of it could be used to test the new teaching Paul was providing.

And, as you pointed out, once the Bereans had assured themselves that none of Paul’s Apostolic teaching contradicted Scripture, they accepted it (the Apostolic teaching and continued to accept the Scriptures) and believed.
It has been a long time since anyone has brought up the Bereans to me.

This was a great refresher course. Thank you for sharing.

God bless
Thanks for posting, you might find it helpful to read the entire chapter of Acts 17 to make sure that what you read in Ray’s article actually lines up with the text (see my comments above)

🙂
 
Thanks for posting, you might find it helpful to read the entire chapter of Acts 17 to make sure that what you read in Ray’s article actually lines up with the text (see my comments above)

🙂
Great idea. I always look for a reason to dive into Acts 👍

I do not see where Ray went off course. Besides, though they searched the scripture, are your trying to say that they promoted Sola Scriptura?

What were the Scriptures that they had? It was not the entire Christian Bible with the NT included. It was the OT. So I think this verse would be saying too much if it were defending SS. It would be saying that the OT is all that is needed for the Christian.

The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonians (Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica) because the Thessalonians, “were jealous, and taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar” While the Bereans, “received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.”

They both sat down and searched the Scriptures. One group of Jews argued and caused trouble, while the other group of Jews discussed these matters in a more… noble way 👍

I don’t see this as supporting SS (of course I don’t right?) because, one, like I said earlier they did not have the entire canonized Bible, and two, both sects of Jews used Scripture in their discussion with Paul. One went off the deep end while the other, the more noble sect, accepted Paul’s preaching with eagerness.

God bless
 
Great idea. I always look for a reason to dive into Acts 👍

I do not see where Ray went off course. Besides, though they searched the scripture, are your trying to say that they promoted Sola Scriptura?

What were the Scriptures that they had? It was not the entire Christian Bible with the NT included. It was the OT. So I think this verse would be saying too much if it were defending SS. It would be saying that the OT is all that is needed for the Christian.

The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonians (Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica) because the Thessalonians, “were jealous, and taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar” While the Bereans, “received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.”

They both sat down and searched the Scriptures. One group of Jews argued and caused trouble, while the other group of Jews discussed these matters in a more… noble way 👍

I don’t see this as supporting SS (of course I don’t right?) because, one, like I said earlier they did not have the entire canonized Bible, and two, both sects of Jews used Scripture in their discussion with Paul. One went off the deep end while the other, the more noble sect, accepted Paul’s preaching with eagerness.

God bless
Acts tends to be my favourite NT book. Glad to meet someone else who likes it.

That’s my problem with Ray’s article, he snipped the text a bit too much, like a TBS movie . :rolleyes:

In Thessalonica, there were a number who listened, consulted the Scriptures and believed. There was also a group of Jews who became jealous and stirred up hostility toward Paul.

In Berea, no such jealous group existed, initially. It was only after thessalonians arrived and stirred up some of the citizens that there were problems.

In both areas there were people who listened, checked out the scripures and accepted Paul’s teaching when they saw it lined up with the scripture they had prior confidence in.

I agree that this doesn’t teach sola scriptura-I never implied it did. As you point out, the Old Testament only was used by the church-or in this case non-church members who evaluated the teaching of the Apostle. All it points out is that Luke doesn’t portray those who assess Apostolic teaching against Scripture in a negative light. Luke doesn’t say one “must” do it this way, but he doesn’t condemn it either.

My biggest problem with Ray’s article is that he tries to make the problem in Thessalonika to be the result of rejection of new revelation, rather than jealousy as Luke clearly states in the text. Ray’s reading that into the text.

As I said, take a good look at the whole chapter and see if Ray hasn’t taken a shortcut or two. Let me know what you think. 🙂
 
Acts tends to be my favourite NT book. Glad to meet someone else who likes it.

That’s my problem with Ray’s article, he snipped the text a bit too much, like a TBS movie . :rolleyes:

In Thessalonica, there were a number who listened, consulted the Scriptures and believed. There was also a group of Jews who became jealous and stirred up hostility toward Paul.

In Berea, no such jealous group existed, initially. It was only after thessalonians arrived and stirred up some of the citizens that there were problems.

In both areas there were people who listened, checked out the scripures and accepted Paul’s teaching when they saw it lined up with the scripture they had prior confidence in.

I agree that this doesn’t teach sola scriptura-I never implied it did. As you point out, the Old Testament only was used by the church-or in this case non-church members who evaluated the teaching of the Apostle. All it points out is that Luke doesn’t portray those who assess Apostolic teaching against Scripture in a negative light. Luke doesn’t say one “must” do it this way, but he doesn’t condemn it either.

My biggest problem with Ray’s article is that he tries to make the problem in Thessalonika to be the result of rejection of new revelation, rather than jealousy as Luke clearly states in the text. Ray’s reading that into the text.

As I said, take a good look at the whole chapter and see if Ray hasn’t taken a shortcut or two. Let me know what you think. 🙂
😊

This much we can agree on; they were noble. For my bible tells me so 😃

I guess the only one who truly knows why they were labeled noble would be Paul who wrote it. Also God who inspired him to write it.

God bless
 
You raise a good point-would you say that all of the Apostles’ messages about Jesus would line up with Old Testament revelation?

I agree with your final point as well 🙂
Yes, I would. Once you see that God’s plan was expaned from one Holy Couple, to a Holy Family, To a Holy Tribe, to a Holy Nation, to a Holy Kingdom, to a Holy World (to steal from Hahn), all of the Teachings of the Apostles about Jesus are in the OT, including the nature of the Church and the Sacraments.
 
😊

This much we can agree on; they were noble. For my bible tells me so 😃

I guess the only one who truly knows why they were labeled noble would be Paul who wrote it. Also God who inspired him to write it.

God bless
Do you believe Paul wrote the book of Acts?

Do you think he was alone in Berea?
 
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