What do "LatterDay Saints" Believe?

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It may be true that since I am still in the LDS Church I look at things in a less objective manner. Also I am a convert who has lived all my life in the “mission field” away from the West and the center of the Church.

Yet I see and feel changes in belief taking place in the lives of individual members and in the LDS Church as a whole. Some of you may say that it is the intent of the leaders to appear more mainstream and that could be true. It could also be true that because Jesus, His Atoning Sacrifice, and His grace are being emphasized more the Holy Spirit truly is changing the hearts of many LDS.

Some are choosing to remain steadfast in the faith without question, others who feel “born-again” choose to remain in hopes that their quiet testimony will help to bring about even greater change, others like me are searching elsewhere for spiritual fulfillment, and still others have found their way home to the faith of our fathers.

For now I struggle because this is one Mormon who is not sure what he believes, but whatever happens I am sure God is with me.
 
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searcher:
Yet I see and feel changes in belief taking place in the lives of individual members and in the LDS Church as a whole. Some of you may say that it is the intent of the leaders to appear more mainstream and that could be true. It could also be true that because Jesus, His Atoning Sacrifice, and His grace are being emphasized more the Holy Spirit truly is changing the hearts of many LDS.
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What changes are you noticing?
 
In recent years there have been more books written by Church leaders and others that emphasize the Atonement of Jesus Christ and grace. The same is true of Church magazines and other publications. Talks and testimonies in our meetings are more Christ-centered. Missionaries are encouraged to teach more by the Spirit than by using memorized discussions. These are just a few examples , but I definitely see and feel a difference. I welcome it.
 
We prefer to call our church by it’s full name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Mormon is a nick name that came about because of the Book Of Mormon. I refer to myself as LDS and sometimes it is easier to just say mormon. There are many people who think we do not believe in Jesus, so we do not like to have people de-emphasize the name of our church to the exclusion of Jesus Christ’s name, as that just furthers the misconception. I have had friends visit me from Pennsylvania, who were so unfamiliar with the LDS church that they thought we met in member’s homes. I explained to them that there are 5 LDS church buildings within a 5 mile radius of my home, that each have 3 wards(congregations)meeting in them. So to answer your question either is acceptable, but when we tell people the church we belong to we say the whole name.
BJ

👍
 
I can tell you a change I noticed. I left the church in 1979 and they were not very sensitive to divorce, so I felt very disconnected and with 6 children to support without child support from the father, I got lost.
I was recently, 1999 rebaptized and had my temple blessings restored in 2004. It has been a long road, but I notice they have a lot more programs for singles. They even have whole wards just made up of singles over 18. The church has made a real concerted effort to understand and form programs to help singles fit in.
Too late for me, as I am married now to my good Catholic husband, but what a great change that is for others who find themselves without a partner.
BJ
 
BJ,

Repabtized? I didn’t know an LDS would be baptized (by the LDS) more than once. Could you describe? Yes, I know they baptize people who were baptized in other denominations.

Also, I was seriously asking before about living propehts/apostles verses the deceased ones. Could you answer my previous question (I know, I didn’t ask you). I have pasted my original post here:

Begin original Post:
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                                             Originally Posted by **searcher**
             *Official doctine comes from the 4 standard works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price), Official Declarations or Proclamations, the current General Handbook and approved Curriculum, and talks from General Conference or other Official Gatherings given by living Apostles or Prophets. Anything else is pure speculation.*
Could you clarify for me, are you saying that those 4 standard works plus ONLY stuff from living prophets or apostles? Can anything from dead prophets be used too (obviously I mean if a living prophet isn’t currently teaching it or hasn’t addressed it yet)?

Where does it say that official doctrine only comes from these places, btw?
 
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searcher:
In recent years there have been more books written by Church leaders and others that emphasize the Atonement of Jesus Christ and grace. The same is true of Church magazines and other publications. Talks and testimonies in our meetings are more Christ-centered. Missionaries are encouraged to teach more by the Spirit than by using memorized discussions. These are just a few examples , but I definitely see and feel a difference. I welcome it.
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What did talks and testimonies used to be more centered on?
 
See Pugs post, there is not room for his quote here.
Pug,
Sorry, I did not answer your question, as I just saw it today.
I was re-baptized because I fell away from the LDS Church for 20 years, I was excommunicated. Then after travelling the world and seeing the Book of Mormon sites in Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala and studying them, I felt the Book of Mormon was true, I also had attended other churches and they were all the same, I felt in my heart the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so I started the repentance process and eventually was able to be re-baptized at age 57. I was originally baptized as a child of 8 years old.
Official doctrine comes from the 4 standard works, and is re-affirmed by our living prophets, which included the dead ones while they were alive. There are times (as in the Catholic Church)
when doctrines are clarified and they are repeated often, as Christ repeated His doctrines over and over so we will remember. As many times as they are repeated people still don’t follow the commandments. Thou shalt not bear false witness…Keep the Sabath Day Holy…and all of those things, which should be fairly easy, but are not. Our 13 Articles of Faith, tell what LDS believe in contrast to other religions. So that it is very clear to others what we believe.
1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that Man will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression.
3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel, are first Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, second, Repentance; third, Baptism by emersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly;we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the new Jerusalem)will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, when, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

You can see why I did not want to write our beliefs out, it is a lot of writing. I was hoping people could just look in www.mormon.org and understand what we believe. These beliefs have never changed since Joseph Smith put them down on paper.
This is what we believe and our Doctrines are in the standard works, Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price.

What are the Catholic doctrines? and who made them? where are they found? in Catechism?

I hope I have answered your questions adequately. I really don’t know anything but what I was taught when I was 8 years old and then had reinforced by talks, classes, prayer and life’s experiences.
BJ 🙂
 
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Chris-WA:
What changes are you noticing?
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I feel the changes are in the people, and in improved teaching methods. As current values change, as in out of wedlock births, pornography, gambling, obscene language, R rated movies, MTV,
suggestive music, drugs, all of these activities have increased in my lifetime. I remember the first time my 9 year old said the F word. I was apalled and now it is heard on the streets and used by so-called educated people as just another word. These things have crept into our lives, and now people tend to not be shocked as they were at first. It has become the norm.
Our church leaders have seen this and are trying to improve communications with the people and especially the youth, to fight off the influence of these things. It is important to change tactics, and learn to deal with reality, to fight the rising tide of sin that threatens to take down the world.
I am glad to have this extra information, protection and reinforcement in this current situation.
BJ

🙂
 
Hi BJ Colbert. You asked upon what the teachings of the Catholic Church are based. I am a former Evangelical Protestant, who after much reading, praying, contemplation, and discussion was convinced, especially based upon arguments made from Sacred Scripture and the clear Catholic beliefs of the early Christians, that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ. “You are Peter and on this rock I will build by Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. I give to you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt 16).

The teachings of the Catholic Church, to answer your question, are based upon Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is the body of oral teachings past on by the apostles through the bishops that have been believed ‘everywhere and always by everyone’. We see the Catholic Faith, in ‘seed’ form, in the writings of the early Church Fathers of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries. As the centuries go on, the Church finds herself faced with new situations, controversies, heresies, and obstacles. It is the duty of the Magisterium (teaching office of the Church: the pope and bishops in union with him) to proclaim the ancient faith of the Apostles to each new generation in a relevent way. The Magisterium is a Living Teacher, similar in concept to your prophets and apostles, but without the power of introducing new revelations. Gudied by the Holy Spirit, she safegaurds the Tradition. She is the custodian of the Truth, and propogates the Faith to each new generation. Doctrines can never be ‘invented’ by the Magisterium, for she is a servant of the Tradition, but she will define and clarify teachings as the need arises, as the Spirit of Christ guides her. The ordinary magisterium is the constant teachings of the Bishops around the world…teaching in unity what the Church has always taught. The extraordinary magisterium is when the Church solemnly clarifies as dogma a certain aspect of the Tradition that has been called into question. This can be done infallibly (the Holy Spirit safeguards Christ’s Church, which St. Paul proclaims the ‘pillar and foundation of Truth’ in 1 Tim 3:15) by a solemn declaration of the Bishop of Rome (the pope), or by the bishops united together in a Sacred Council (Ecumenical Council).

So in essence, our Faith can be found in the Sacred Scriptures, the writings of the early Church Fathers (for a record of the ancient Traditions of the Church), the canons (declarations) of the 21 Ecumenical Councils, and in solemn doctrinal declarations of the popes down through the ages. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which you mentioned, is a modern compendium of the Faith, drawing from the Ecumenical Councils, the Fathers, the saints, the popes, and Sacred Scripture. It is the best source to go to to learn what the Church teaches in the modern world…as it has all the basics together in one place. It’s available online at usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm.

In Christ,

Tyler
 
BJ, thanks for answering. I have read lots of the material at mormon.org a few years ago, and never saw anything about repabtism. I went there again, and here is a cut from their page on baptism:
Through the ordinance of baptism, we make a promise, called a covenant, with God. We promise to accept Christ, to become His followers, and to keep His commandments to the end of our lives. In return, our Heavenly Father promises to forgive our sins and let us return to live with Him, provided we keep our covenants.
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link to where it came from

It doesn’t mention rebaptism there. However, it does seem to talk about you making a promise, which I assume is broken by leaving the LDS. Is that why they must rebaptize you, because the promise was broken? So a momon would not return to live with the Father if they don’t have a current unbroken baptism promise? Or is it something else entirely?

BTW, do you know if this site:

lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/index.htm

is an orthodox Mormon site? I found it when I was trying to find a Mormon site that mentioned rebaptism.

I’m still a bit stuck on how the current apostles authority compares to the previous ones. I ask because in Catholic/LDS dialogue, the Catholic party often quotes someone like Bruce Mcconike (don’t recall the spelling) or Lorenzo Snow, neither of whom are current presidents or apostles, but the LDS person replies that the quote the Catholic produced is not authoritative. I really don’t know why. Is it because they are not currently an apostle/prophet?
 
Hi searcher,

You mentioned that you were not sure if there was an apostasy, or not. I thought you might be interested in an internet debate on this very issue that took place between a Mormon and a Catholic ex-Mormon. You can find it here:

transporter.com/Apologia/lds_rcc/index.html

It also discusses at great length whose teachings are closest to the original Christian Church, etc.

BDawg
 
Here is some quick info on the differences. Here.There is still a lot to debate so I wont throw this thread off course with any details.
 
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Pug:
BJ, thanks for answering. I have read lots of the material at mormon.org a few years ago, and never saw anything about repabtism. I went there again, and here is a cut from their page on baptism:

link to where it came from

It doesn’t mention rebaptism there. However, it does seem to talk about you making a promise, which I assume is broken by leaving the LDS. Is that why they must rebaptize you, because the promise was broken? So a momon would not return to live with the Father if they don’t have a current unbroken baptism promise? Or is it something else entirely?

BTW, do you know if this site:

lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/index.htm
I never heard of this site but…
The site looks OK, I read some things and they seem fine. It is not put out by the LDS Church, but by members who seem to know what they are talking about.

Pug, To answer your question, when someone who is baptized into the LDS church and commits a sin which is very serious, they may be excommunicated. They may begin the repentance process, which includes making amends, confessing to a Bishop, and never committing the sin again. It can be a very long road back, or it can be as long as the person takes to repent and come back.
I took twenty years. Satan has a way of making you feel there is no hope and you are lost and doomed. When you realize that you are God’s child, and he wants you back then you regain your hope and know that you are loved by God. I had such sorrow for causing God so much pain, after He sent His only Begotten to suffer and die for my sins. I was devastated, and it took a long time to fully repent and be re-baptized.
BJ
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Tyler,
Thank you for the website on the Catechism, It is very similar to the one my husband and I were studying on the web last night.
www.kofc.org by the Knights of Columbus.
I have added it to my favorites so we can pull it up and read it later.
BJ
🙂
 
Ex-mo,
That is very interesting, did you get it from an official LDS publication? I did not see anything that referred to where you got it. I really don’t believe that temple marriage is all it takes to attain Godhood. I believe there will be very few men to attain anything close to Godhood, and there is nothing anywhere that says that all who marry in the Temple will be gods. Anyway, I did not study your post very carefully, but that stuck out as very strange to me, as I have never heard that Temple marriage is all there is to it.
Pretty simple, but I do not want to be a God or Godess, too much work :eek: BJ

P.S. Something else strange about your posting is that I have never seen Joseph Smith’s name listed as one of the Judges, right up there with Jesus Christ and God Himself. Hmmm maybe Bdawg can decipher this. It just doesn’t look quite right to me. It would help to know where you got it. :confused:
 
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ex-mormon:
Back to the thread, I thought people would like to see the Mormon plan of eternal progression.
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That is an interesting chart. I have a few questions that you or maybe others can answer.
  1. According to Mormon doctrine, is this true? That Jesus only atoned for Adam’s transgression, which is why everyone is automatically saved from hell (including Hitler who would go to the Telestial Heaven).
  2. How are personal sins atoned for?
  3. Is it true that Mormons don’t believe in deathbed conversions? i.e. someone lives a wicked life and then at the last minute converts. Where would such a person spend eternity?
  4. Who are the sons of perdition? I heard that they are people that used to be Mormon but left the church. I’ve heard that people who were never Mormons are much better off than an ex-Mormon.
 
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ex-mormon:
Back to the thread, I thought people would like to see the Mormon plan of eternal progression.

If this incorrect please correct me. is the second death considered Outer Darkness?
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Wow. Wish I’d seen this when I was a Mormon. I’ve never seen it spelled out quite this way. I haven’t actually digested it yet, so I can’t say whether it fits in with what I was taught by the prophets and apostles of the LDS church, the missionaries, elders, and women of the Relief Society.

Incidentally, I was baptised a Catholic in Salt Lake City. When I decided to marry someone who happened to be a Mormon, I made the foolish decision that “we need to have one religion in the househould.” So I was rebaptised into the LDS church. It wasn’t a good fit for me, and I was soon longing for the Catholic Church once again. Took me 10 years to get the names of my daughter and myself off the LDS rolls, and my husband had to first give the local bishop his explicit approval. Thanks be to God, he was no longer involved with the LDS church himself and had no objections to my request.

While I would urge caution in heeding the words of bitter former members of religions, it’s also true that many former members can provide factual accounts of what the church taught. Don’t exclude their veracity just because they no longer adhere to those teachings.

Additionally, it would not be wise to ignore what the LDS prophets and apostles taught, even if disavowed or downplayed today. Their claim to divine inspiration cannot be skipped over so easily. It doesn’t work to just say “oh we don’t teach that anymore.” I can remember when the BOM still said that the Lamanites would become “white and delightsome” when they converted to the “truth.” Since I heard that phrase over and over again in official church context, I can vouch that it was indeed considered prophecy.

Teri
Sursum Corda! :gopray2:
 
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petra:
That is an interesting chart. I have a few questions that you or maybe others can answer.
  1. According to Mormon doctrine, is this true? That Jesus only atoned for Adam’s transgression, which is why everyone is automatically saved from hell (including Hitler who would go to the Telestial Heaven).
  2. How are personal sins atoned for?
  3. Is it true that Mormons don’t believe in deathbed conversions? i.e. someone lives a wicked life and then at the last minute converts. Where would such a person spend eternity?
  4. Who are the sons of perdition? I heard that they are people that used to be Mormon but left the church. I’ve heard that people who were never Mormons are much better off than an ex-Mormon.
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  1. No that is not true, Jesus atoned for everyone who ever lived before he was cruicified and everyone who ever lives upon the earth since he was cruicified. We don’t know where Hitler would go, I would hope he goes or already has gone to hell. Where ever he goes will not be a good place.
  2. Personal sins were atoned for by Jesus Christ on the cross. Baptism is a dedication of your life, a promise, that you will follow His commandments and emulate His life. If you stumble along the way there is the Sacrament which you take in remembrance of the promises you have made in baptism. You may repent by making ammends for the sin you have committed and if it is really a very serious sin like adultry. You must confess to the Bishop and then you may or may not be excommunicated according to your level of repentance and knowlege of the sin you have committed. In other words did you fully realize what you were doing and do it on purpose. All personal sins of all people in the world were atoned for by Jesus Christ.
  3. It depends on the state of mind of the repenter and I could not answer the question in total, because I personally believe that if the person does not believe in God before he is on his deathbed, he will certainly not change his mind at the last minute. But, for that we have the spirit world where he may be taught the Gospel and change his mind. If he is lucky he will be among those baptized in the Temples by proxy. If he lived a very wicked life and murdered etc. where he ends up depends on how God judges him. Only God can tell the inner heart and soul and therefore only God can be the final judge.
  4. Again only God knows for sure, but I have heard that Judas is one of them. As I understand it the Sons of Perdition are those who knew God and denied Him. There are very few persons who can say they knew Him and denied they knew Him. You would have to have been very close to God and then turn away completely. Again, I am not the judge, and I don’t think anyone on earth at this time could tell you who these people are or will be, except God.
I for one only worry about the things that affect me and all the other things I leave up to God.
🙂 BJ

Ex-mo, you did not answer my question about where you got the outline you showed? It is not what we believe, but has some truth, so it is very confusing and misleading. Can you or will you tell us where it came from? :confused:
 
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