What do Mormons believe will happen to Hinkley?

[Paul_G]

Another non-answer.

As far as I can see you have made disparaging reference to my discussions with others and not engaged in a discussion that requires a direct answer to you.

The “belittling” comes from the flippancy of your attempts to circumvent a direct comment on mormon ‘theology.’

I do have a since of humour which might come across sometimes, but I don’t believe I’m as inappropriate, as you suggest, in its use. If you can point me to an instance for future reference it would be helpful.

Posters (like Rebecca, myself, hosemonkey, Jerusha, lukewarm, Paul G and others) post

Direct Quotations from Mormon ‘Scriptures’

and all you do is snip a little here and snip a little there and post some milquetoast comment that NEVERS addresses the issues brought up about mormonism and its beliefs.

If that is ‘belittling,’ then I am sorry for you and hope and pray that the scales fall from your eyes and you read the Bible without the ‘verifying testimony of the BoM’ and understand what Christianity is truly about.

I don’t write diatribes or exhaustive explanations in defence of what I believe, I have conversations, which consist of short digestible comments and I will say what I know, If further information is require the conversation can go on. If one looks at the exchanges there is very little in the way to questions to answerer, they are, if fact, as a can recall, sensationalizing statements

As far as just dropping in some verses of scripture without explanation - If I am to respond to a comment or and idea put forth, it is helpful to me to have an idea of one understands about a quotation submitted, rather that leaving it up to me to figure it out. If that appears to be unreasonable to you, so be it.

A little hint: mormonism doesn’t respect the teachings and traditions of Christ and Christianity, so don’t start with your church’s hypocritical ‘Great Apostasy’ lie.

Traditions? - depending on what you are talking about we may not follow them, I don’t know about disrespecting them thought. Teachings of Christ? - show me the one’s we disrespect. Know one says you have to agree with what we think about how the direction of Christianity has departed from it’s original course. Thought all one has to do, is do a little independent reading of early writers to get a sense of it.

I’ll put it in ‘milk’ for your understanding:

IF the Church apostatized, and the BoM ‘fulfills’ the Bible, why does the LDS claim they are Christian?

Robert

I don’t know what your definition of being Christian is, but for me, to be Christian is to a follow the teachings of the Saviour plain and simple.

Paul

 

[jonjon]

And how will his successor be chosen?

I believe, as an RCIA student who knows nothing (LOL) that he will be given a chance in Purgatory to see and understand the Truth. Even Hitler and Judas himself had the same chance.

What do Mormons believe?

If you are interested in what Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe, why don’t you go to there website, www.lds.org, or www.mormon.org.

From what I have read in this forum many have been quoting from sites that are anti-Mormon. Also many, who have replied, have stated their personal opinion regarding the matter. This can taint what the LDS people truly believe, leaving you what others think the LDS people believe rather than what they really believe.

Are you sure you want to know what the “Mormons” believe or are you more interested in what others believe the “Mormons” believe?

 

[Indyann]

If you are interested in what Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe, why don’t you go to there website, www.lds.org, or www.mormon.org.

From what I have read in this forum many have been quoting from sites that are anti-Mormon. Also many, who have replied, have stated their personal opinion regarding the matter. This can taint what the LDS people truly believe, leaving you what others think the LDS people believe rather than what they really believe.

Are you sure you want to know what the “Mormons” believe or are you more interested in what others believe the “Mormons” believe?

Straight up question. Yes or No?

Do you belive that there is one God, with three divine persons? Is Jesus Christ God?

Just yes or no

 

[darth_bill]

I’ve lurked here for awhile. I have a good friendship with another Catholic on another board. He’s a good man. He answers my questions and visa versa. He expressed sadness that someone who means so much to so many has passed.

GBH meant a lot to me. He was a good man. I don’t care if you agree with him or not. He was a good man.

I felt sadness when Pope John Paul II died. He meant a lot to a great many people. He was a good man. I don’t care fi you agree with him or not.

Mother Theresa was a good woman. She helped where no others could. When my wife and I were trying to adopt, I felt like I could understand her work, just a bit better.

I am saddened when people here who claim to be following Christ can use such bitter and hateful language about each other. Perhaps I should stop studying the RCC. I’m certainly not feeling any love here. Should I expect better at the local parish?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks for the verses; however, posting them alone doesn’t give me any idea of what you are trying to say. A little commentary would be helpful. Thanks.

Paul

Well break it down like you do any other post and tell me what it means to you.

 

[J_C]

Perhaps I should stop studying the RCC. I’m certainly not feeling any love here. Should I expect better at the local parish?

It depends on why you are “studying the RCC.” A forum like this is not a hand holding society. if you are being led by conviction to union with the CAtholic Church then a few irritating individuals will not deter you. I think you will have more hand holding at the parish level, though don’t be surprised if you have to reach out yourself becuase Catholics as a rule do not love bomb which you may be used to. If stroking is what you need make sure you let your priest and others in the parish know this so they can help you where you need it. also do not be afraid of shopping around for a parish that suits your taste since each parish has its own personality. Be very patient, if God is leading you he will not desert you but he will surely allow you some difficulties. I had many difficulties in my journey feel free to PM me if you want to compare notes. Prayers for you.

 

[why_me]

Should I expect better at the local parish?

Probably so. The catholics here attacking mormonism are probably the same catholics you will see at the coffee hour after mass, full of smiles, sweet as pie, and joyfully peaceful.

The forum is not the place to meet real people since real people can be just a tad different than the people here. Until of course, they log off and become real again.

We do have some antimormon, former mormon now catholics on this forum that seem to relish attacking the lds church.

 

[Paul_G]

Well break it down like you do any other post and tell me what it means to you.

Since I was in agreement with the person I was dialoguing with, that indeed LDS thought allows for a man to be sealed to more than one woman, as in the example that he gave. The question that I had was about the “countless goddesses” comment. That is why I asked you the reasoning behind the quotes you offered as it did not address this issue.

In LDS thought and practice, there will be some, as in the times when having more than one wife was allowed in the Church, will be sealed together for time a eternity with many wives, as your quotes state.

There will be some, as in the example given by” lukewarm”; who will married to one woman at a time, but because of death and remarriage might be sealed to another for time an eternity. There will some like me who will be married only once in this life, and will have one wife for time and eternity. So under these circumstances ,yes, LDS thought allows that there will be, in some cases, a plurality of wives in the next live, but not countless numbers as was suggested.

Paul

 

[tundramom]

mjf001;3266130:

I have never seen the Larry King interview, in which, according to the poster you are picking up the conversation from, Pres. Hinckley said that we do not teach eternal progression; however I find it very hard to believe, as we do quite clearly teach this, Its’ no secret. You were taught quite correctly as a youth.

Paul

Then I suggest you do Paul. It’s on CNN.com. If you have any problems viewing it let me know and I’ll try to help you out. You came to his defense… yet you haven’t even seen what it is you are defending?

in Christ
Steph

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I made comments related to the several statements made. I’m not sure what your purpose in responding in this fashion is about, besides what I and I’m sure other’s see as an attempt to belittle me personally. However, I wish you the best, and you have a good evening.

Paul

That’s all you can do, Paul. You make “comments.”

You claim that a Christian is one who follows “our saviour” Jesus Christ but you deny that the Church He set up has prevailed against the gates of Hell (it’s in the Bible, buddy).

You make flippant remarks about lukewarm’s retelling of mormon doctrine re plural and celestial marriages and you blithely ignore Jesus’ teaching that there will BE NO MARRIAGES in heaven (that’s in the Bible too, friend).

The problem with mormonism? It’s NOT Christian. It is a sect similar to Islam. It sets up its own theology, claims another set of “Scriptures” and weaves its lies around a pastiche of pasted up fiction and KJV plagiarism: the book of Mormon.

Other than that, I am sure you’re a nice man and probably someone I wouldn’t be ashamed to call a friend.

But your beliefs are NOT Christian. Your foundation is DENIED by all Christians churches, from the first two, Catholic and Orthodox, to those denominations which have splintered off from them within the past few centuries.

Sorry to disappoint you, but look elsewhere for approval: your sect will not find it here.

Robert

 

[Paul_G]

Paul G;3266491:

Then I suggest you do Paul. It’s on CNN.com. If you have any problems viewing it let me know and I’ll try to help you out. You came to his defense… yet you haven’t even seen what it is you are defending?

in Christ
Steph

I don’t as a rule look a linked material offered in a post, however, in this case if you have a link to the material you have mentioned I will look at it.

Paul

 

[Paul_G]

That’s all you can do, Paul. You make “comments.”

You claim that a Christian is one who follows “our saviour” Jesus Christ but you deny that the Church He set up has prevailed against the gates of Hell (it’s in the Bible, buddy).

You make flippant remarks about lukewarm’s retelling of mormon doctrine re plural and celestial marriages and you blithely ignore Jesus’ teaching that there will BE NO MARRIAGES in heaven (that’s in the Bible too, friend).

The problem with mormonism? It’s NOT Christian. It is a sect similar to Islam. It sets up its own theology, claims another set of “Scriptures” and weaves its lies around a pastiche of pasted up fiction and KJV plagiarism: the book of Mormon.

Other than that, I am sure you’re a nice man and probably someone I wouldn’t be ashamed to call a friend.

But your beliefs are NOT Christian. Your foundation is DENIED by all Christians churches, from the first two, Catholic and Orthodox, to those denominations which have splintered off from them within the past few centuries.

Sorry to disappoint you, but look elsewhere for approval: your sect will not find it here.

Robert

I can appreciate the passion you display in regard to your belief, and I neither seek nor need the approval of others as to what I hold fast. You do not belief I’m Christian for reasons that you have laid out. You are welcome to that belief.

After reading your remarks, I would be interested to know what, in your opinion, it is to be a Christian. For instance, is it church affiliation, a set of prescribed beliefs or practices, is it something that one says to claim it, or some thing other than these. I get it from the Evangelical side of things, and I would be interested learning the Catholic view.

Paul

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Well Paul,

To be Christian, you have to be baptized using the formula from the NT.

Your church does not follow this practice.

To be Christian, you must follow the tradition of accepting what we call the Bible as the final testimony of God’s covenant with His People: the nations of the world. This is the NEW Covenant (foreshadowed in the account in Genesis with Abram/Abraham).

Your church does not believe this.

To be Christian, you must believe in the triune God and that Jesus is NOT a separate entity from the “Heavenly Father.”

Your church does not believe this.

To be Christian is to deny ALL of what your church teaches through its ‘scripture’ and its ‘prophets.’

No Christian denomination reads the Book of Mormon.

I hope this clears things up about why your faith, albeit intending to follow Christ, does not and is not considered Christian.

Robert

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well Paul,

To be Christian, you have to be baptized using the formula from the NT.

Your church does not follow this practice.

To be Christian, you must follow the tradition of accepting what we call the Bible as the final testimony of God’s covenant with His People: the nations of the world. This is the NEW Covenant (foreshadowed in the account in Genesis with Abram/Abraham).

Your church does not believe this.

To be Christian, you must believe in the triune God and that Jesus is NOT a separate entity from the “Heavenly Father.”

Your church does not believe this.

To be Christian is to deny ALL of what your church teaches through its ‘scripture’ and its ‘prophets.’

No Christian denomination reads the Book of Mormon.

I hope this clears things up about why your faith, albeit intending to follow Christ, does not and is not considered Christian.

Robert

• Christians believe the truth that Christ established His Church, and has not let His Truth fail or diminish, not in the untruth of a universal or great apostasy.
• Christians believe the truth that God became a man, not the turned upside down untruth that man became God.
• Christians believe the truth that Jesus Christ is the Perfect Word of God, not the untruth that God had/has something more perfect to say than what was revealed through His Word.
• Christians believe the truth that God the Holy Spirit is equal with God the Father and God the Son and as such is due worship. Not the untruth that the Holy Spirit is the lesser of three gods, and as such, is never worshiped or glorified.
• Christians believe the truth that God the Son is equal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Not the untruth that God the Son is a lesser god than the Father and a greater god than the Holy Spirit.
• Christians believe the truth that God the Father is equal with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Not the untruth that God the Father is the greatest of three gods.
• Christians believe the truth that Christ is the foundation of all Truth, not the untruth that the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith are the foundation of all Truth.

 

[tundramom]

here’s the transcript
lds-mormon.com/lkl_00.shtml

in Christ
Steph

 

[why_me]

From the interview:

Larry King: You’re not saying, leave your Catholicism.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I say this to other people: you develop all the good you can. We have no animosity toward any other church. We do not oppose other churches. We never speak negatively of other churches. We say to people: you bring all the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it.

Here is what I think. GBH was 88 years old and on the larry king show. I cannot expect him to be as sharp as a tack while having such an interview. Interestingly enough, it is interesting just how antimormons analyze each word of Gordon B. Hinckley hoping to find something to mock or challenge. He came across very well during the interview. Did he mispeak? Perhaps.

But he was an old man answering questions that were unscripted. Now I do hope that pope john paul could have appeared on larry king also to answer questions. But I did not see him nor do I see Pope Benedict. But to evaluate the larry king interview hoping to find a mistake is quite pitiful.

Now I must say, I do not believe that he was encouraged to go on TV especially with Mike Wallace. But he did. Why was he discouraged? Because of the anti mormon crowd leeching onto every word.

It is not easy to be interviewed under the best of circumstances. I can only hope that if I live to be 88, my mind will be as intact at that age.

 

[RebeccaJ]

whyme, I met GBH a little over a year ago. And listened to him speak and dialog with people. He was frail, physically, but mentally his mind was clear. He had a sharp sense of humor.

Sure, he had to choose his words carefully in that interview. But saying that mormons don’t believe something when they really do was a deception. Granted, I believe this was one of those “lying for the Lord” deceptions, where Hinckley believed the lie was better in the long run for his purposes.

You show here exactly why. People who do not know mormon beliefs would hear the mormon president deny something that most Christians find absolutely unacceptable. So deny it, and mormons that do know the real belief will make up excuses for their prophet in order to calm their own minds and not be guilty of doubting a man who they truly believe to be a prophet of God.

In short whyme, “eternal progression” is a central doctrine to mormonism. Every mormon child is taught this doctrine and every mormon hears over and over and over and over throughout their lives this doctrine. It is highly unlikely that GBH just sort of forgot this doctrine for a few seconds in a television interview.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Probably so. The catholics here attacking mormonism are probably the same catholics you will see at the coffee hour after mass, full of smiles, sweet as pie, and joyfully peaceful.

The forum is not the place to meet real people since real people can be just a tad different than the people here. Until of course, they log off and become real again.

We do have some antimormon, former mormon now catholics on this forum that seem to relish attacking the lds church.

Nah whyme, if I saw you at coffee hour after mass I’d tell you the same things I tell you here. Just maybe in person you would see that I am not anti-mormon, but pro-truth.

 

[why_me]

Nah whyme, if I saw you at coffee hour after mass I’d tell you the same things I tell you here. Just maybe in person you would see that I am not anti-mormon, but pro-truth.

Well, I do go to the coffee hour after mass in my neck of the world. Who knows maybe we will meet at the coffee hour some day.

But I will not drink the coffee…

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well, I do go to the coffee hour after mass in my neck of the world. Who knows maybe we will meet at the coffee hour some day.

But I will not drink the coffee…

I would be humored by your defense of mormon doctrine, in a Catholic church, after mass.

Last I checked, coffee drinking was not a doctrine or dogma of the Roman Catholic church.