What do Mormons believe?

[gazelam]

If I am not mistaken, Jesus was conceived (according to the LDS) through carnal relations with the Virgin Mary, which would, by definition mean should would not be a virgin (I do recall that Mormons believe the Father is Flesh and bone)

Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Virgin Birth: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Virgin_Birth

FAIR Mormon on the Virgin Birth: en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Conception

As the FAIR Mormon link says, critics of the LDS Church like to cherry pick personal opinions by Church leaders that were never submitted for canonization.

My best understanding of the LDS view is that the Son shares genetic material of both Heavenly Father and Mary and is literally the physical offspring of both. Mary remained a virgin during the process. He acquired His divine attributes from Heavenly Father and his mortal attributes from Mary. The LDS church does not claim to know how this union of genetic material occurred. (It doesn’t seem it would be too hard of a task for the Great God of Heaven to fertilize an egg without intercourse occurring.)

 

[Marie5890]

That is probably a good reason as to why Mormons dont speak about Mary.

The idea that a father would impregnant his own daughter. Its not something that people are comfortable talking about, nor how to handle it.

But that is what they believe. That God the Father impregnanted his own daughter, Mary.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Virgin Birth: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Virgin_Birth

FAIR Mormon on the Virgin Birth: en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Conception

As the FAIR Mormon link says, critics of the LDS Church like to cherry pick personal opinions by Church leaders that were never submitted for canonization.

My best understanding of the LDS view is that the Son shares genetic material of both Heavenly Father and Mary and is literally the physical offspring of both. Mary remained a virgin during the process. He acquired His divine attributes from Heavenly Father and his mortal attributes from Mary. The LDS church does not claim to know how this union of genetic material occurred. (It doesn’t seem it would be too hard of a task for the Great God of Heaven to fertilize an egg without intercourse occurring.)

Except Matthew 1:18 explicitly condemns that view.

 

[adamhovey1988]

That is probably a good reason as to why Mormons dont speak about Mary.

The idea that a father would impregnant his own daughter. Its not something that people are comfortable talking about, nor how to handle it.

But that is what they believe. That God the Father impregnanted his own daughter, Mary.

See what I just said about Matthew 1:18.
How can ANYONE believe that?
How can God the all powerful God have a god?
How can God the Father have flesh and bone? (John 4:24)
No offense to our LDS friends, but Mormon beliefs seem to be rather non-sequitur.

 

[Marie5890]

Except Matthew 1:18 explicitly condemns that view.

You are right. And within Mormon theology, the Holy Ghost is seen as a totally and separate personage from the Father and Son.

The Mormon view would say, in light of Matt 1:18, that Mary was impregnanted by her spirit brother, the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost, in Mormon theology, is another one of God the Father and Goddess the Mother, another spirit child.

A close and reasoned look at Mormon theology, and one can understand why many claim Mormons are not Christians. Their theology is so very unorthodox.

 

[adamhovey1988]

You are right. And within Mormon theology, the Holy Ghost is seen as a totally and separate personage from the Father and Son.

The Mormon view would say, in light of Matt 1:18, that Mary was impregnanted by her spirit brother, the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost, in Mormon theology, is another one of God the Father and Goddess the Mother, another spirit child.

A close and reasoned look at Mormon theology, and one can understand why many claim Mormons are not Christians. Their theology is so very unorthodox.

I really do hope the LDS reading this understand I am not trying to be cruel to them. Hey, could you tell me what the deal with the Angel Moroni is? Not what he allegedly said, but how a human becomes an angel. Shouldn’t he be a god in Mormon theology?

 

[Marie5890]

I really do hope the LDS reading this understand I am not trying to be cruel to them. Hey, could you tell me what the deal with the Angel Moroni is? Not what he allegedly said, but how a human becomes an angel. Shouldn’t he be a god in Mormon theology?

Well, if I recall correctly, the being a god(dess) doesnt happen until after the final judgement, which includes after the millenium reign of Christ and Satan is bound.

Im guessing you know he was seen as the last of the Nephites who wrote upon the golden plates (if I recall correctly. It’s been decades) and that he delievered the golden plates to Smith to be translated, and then took them back.

Im sure any of the Mormons here will speak up if my recollection is off.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Well, if I recall correctly, the being a god(dess) doesnt happen until after the final judgement, which includes after the millenium reign of Christ and Satan is bound.

Im guessing you know he was seen as the last of the Nephites who wrote upon the golden plates (if I recall correctly. It’s been decades) and that he delievered the golden plates to Smith to be translated, and then took them back.

Im sure any of the Mormons here will speak up if my recollection is off.

I have heard that there is more talk at LDS services with regards to Joseph Smith than there is Jesus, is this true?

 

[LivingWaters7]

I really do hope the LDS reading this understand I am not trying to be cruel to them. Hey, could you tell me what the deal with the Angel Moroni is? Not what he allegedly said, but how a human becomes an angel. Shouldn’t he be a god in Mormon theology?

Traditional Christians believe that angels (the word means “messenger”) are a separate type of being. In contrast, LDS believe that angels can be pre-mortal spirits, or the spirits of people who died but have not yet been resurrected, or people that have already been resurrected.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Traditional Christians believe that angels (the word means “messenger”) are a separate type of being. In contrast, LDS believe that angels can be pre-mortal spirits, or the spirits of people who died but have not yet been resurrected, or people that have already been resurrected.

Well yeah, this is why I get frustrated when traditional Christians, Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, etc., friends of mine refer to deceased relatives as “Angels in heaven”. Actually I am wondering if LDS theology has inadvertently influenced that view. (My brother is Atheist, but believes that the Bible only says there will be 144,000 people in heaven. I think he may have read some JW literature, somewhere)

 

[Marie5890]

I have heard that there is more talk at LDS services with regards to Joseph Smith than there is Jesus, is this true?

I can’t say that that was my personal experience. But it is the experience of many.
I would say my experience was there was more talk about Mormonism in and of itself, more so that Christ. But Christ certainly wasn’t ignored. And most testimonies born would always have a testimony about Christ in them.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I can’t say that that was my personal experience. But it is the experience of many.
I would say my experience was there was more talk about Mormonism in and of itself, more so that Christ. But Christ certainly wasn’t ignored. And most testimonies born would always have a testimony about Christ in them.

Was the Adam-God doctrine ever discussed? Or has that become less of an emphasis over the years? I actually thought about ordering the Book of Mormon, (as it is free) but then I realised I’d be on the mailing list of the LDS church.

 

[Marie5890]

Was the Adam-God doctrine ever discussed? Or has that become less of an emphasis over the years? I actually thought about ordering the Book of Mormon, (as it is free) but then I realised I’d be on the mailing list of the LDS church.

Adam-God was never discussed. If anything that is ignored and chaulked up to Young’s personal opinion and not really part of official Mormon doctrine.

Yes, if you order the BoM you will be on a mailing list for sure.
Trying to think if there is a way of getting one for free without getting on a list.

Do you have a kindle? You get get it for free off of Amazon if you have a kindle

 

[adamhovey1988]

Adam-God was never discussed. If anything that is ignored and chaulked up to Young’s personal opinion and not really part of official Mormon doctrine.

Yes, if you order the BoM you will be on a mailing list for sure.
Trying to think if there is a way of getting one for free without getting on a list.

Do you have a kindle? You get get it for free off of Amazon if you have a kindle

Nah, I prefer reading books the old fashioned way.
I know if you go into hotels, you’re allowed to take Gideon Bibles (you can check with Gideon about that, by the way). Marriot is owned by Mormons, and they usually have the Book of Mormon in those drawers. It may not be free, but at least (I don’t think) I will be on an LDS church mailing list.

 

[Marie5890]

Yes, the Marriott’s are one of several prominent LDS families.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Yes, the Marriott’s are one of several prominent LDS families.

Yeah, I have actually noticed that Mormons can be very successful with regards to business.

 

[gazelam]

How can God the Father have flesh and bone? (John 4:24)

I respectfully beg to differ with your interpretation of John 4:24

A literal reading in English of John 4:24 can be quite problematic.

John 4:24 (NAB) God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth.

Is God just spirit?

How can a literal reading of John 4:24 be reconciled with Deuteronomy 4:28?

Deuteronomy 4:28 (NAB) There you shall serve gods that are works of human hands, of wood and stone, gods which can neither see nor hear, neither eat nor smell.

God clearly hears, eats, and smells.

Deuteronomy 4:24 (NAB) For the LORD, your God, is a consuming fire, a jealous God. (See Hebrews 12:29 also)

Is God just a consuming fire?

1 John 1:15 (NAB) Now this is the message that we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.

Is God just light?

1 John 4:16 (NAB) We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.

Is God just love?

The greek text from which “God is Spirit” is translated just says “theos pneuma θεος πνεμα]” or literally “God spirit”. The word “pneuma”, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’.

Revelation 13:15 (NAB) contains the word “pneuma” is translated like this:

“It was then permitted to breathe life into the beast’s image, so that the beast’s image could speak and [could] have anyone who did not worship it put to death.”

Thus “God is life,” or “God is the breath of life” are potential alternative translations John 4:24.

Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him?

Much of this is taken from en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/God_is_a_Spirit

 

[gazelam]

Except Matthew 1:18 explicitly condemns that view.

I did not say that the Holy Ghost was not instrumental in Mary becoming pregnant with Jesus. LDS scripture, both the Bible and Book of Mormon, are clear on that point.

Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/7.10?lang=eng#9

However, LDS do not believe that Jesus is the Son of the Holy Ghost (nor do Catholics, I believe.)

The key, official doctrine of the LDS Church is that Jesus is literally the son of God (i.e., this is not a symbolic or figurative expression), and Mary was a virgin before and after Christ’s conception.

 

[twopekinguys]

I respectfully beg to differ with your interpretation of John 4:24

A literal reading in English of John 4:24 can be quite problematic.

John 4:24 (NAB) God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth.

Is God just spirit?

How can a literal reading of John 4:24 be reconciled with Deuteronomy 4:28?

Deuteronomy 4:28 (NAB) There you shall serve gods that are works of human hands, of wood and stone, gods which can neither see nor hear, neither eat nor smell.

God clearly hears, eats, and smells.

Deuteronomy 4:24 (NAB) For the LORD, your God, is a consuming fire, a jealous God. (See Hebrews 12:29 also)

Is God just a consuming fire?

1 John 1:15 (NAB) Now this is the message that we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.

Is God just light?

1 John 4:16 (NAB) We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.

Is God just love?

The greek text from which “God is Spirit” is translated just says “theos pneuma θεος πνεμα]” or literally “God spirit”. The word “pneuma”, which is translated spirit, also means ‘life’ or ‘breath’.

Revelation 13:15 (NAB) contains the word “pneuma” is translated like this:

“It was then permitted to breathe life into the beast’s image, so that the beast’s image could speak and [could] have anyone who did not worship it put to death.”

Thus “God is life,” or “God is the breath of life” are potential alternative translations John 4:24.

Also, if God is a spirit and we have to worship him in spirit, do mortals have to leave our bodies to worship him?

Much of this is taken from en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/God_is_a_Spirit

I believe you may be missing his intention here.

It should be. How did the mormon god, who is now spirit, get to be god when he started out as a human being of flesh and blood.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I believe you may be missing his intention here.

It should be. How did the mormon god, who is now spirit, get to be god when he started out as a human being of flesh and blood.

I think Mormons are guilty of giving God, an infinite being, finite attributes. I’m a little lost, and I really can’t see where Mormons actually believe any of this. Faith is a great thing, no one is arguing with that, but when all evidence is to the contrary of the LDS claims, well, Mormonism really fails at being convincing.