What do Mormons believe?

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Marie5890 said:
It wouldn’t.

From what I remember from a religion class I had at BYU taught by Bruce R McConkie’s sister, (BRM was a member of the Q of 12) in order to be a son of perdision and sent to outter darkness one MUST have had their calling and election made sure (ie second annointing) because only then you are given a “sure knowledge of the truth” and thus are in a position to “deny the more sure word”

The only way one can commit the Unpardonable sin is to have had the second annointing first.
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I think you are right that one needs to have the second anointing before it is possible to become a son of perdition and go to outer darkness. I have never heard of someone who has received the second anointing who was excommunicated. For example, Tom Phillips is open about the fact that he received the second anointing and is now an apostate. He has not been excommunicated. I’m not sure he even can be excommunicated because of the second anointing. He has certainly done more than John Dehlin or Kate Kelly to warrant excommunication yet he has not been exed.
 
RebeccaJ said:
This is a non sequitur.

A description of pagan idols is a description of pagan idols. You make a giant leap to apply what something is not, to something completely different and claiming that is what it is.
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I respectfully disagree. There can be no other realistic interpretation other than that God does what the idols being worshipped anciently didn’t do. Are you saying that Moses intended to teach that the Jews should turn away from gods that don’t see, or hear, or eat, or smell and turn to God who, by the way, doesn’t see, or hear, or eat, or smell either?
RebeccaJ said:
God’s nature is Spirit, Love and like a consuming fire. Pneuma is well known in Catholic theological thought, and the descriptions from scripture say to us, a creative nature is being ascribed, or recognized. We understand God’s nature is Creator. Creator being more than an action. It is Who God is.
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God’s nature as Creator does not preclude Him having a physical body.
RebeccaJ said:
There is no Scripture or Tradition for Mormon ideas of a paganized, anthropomorphic God. The Hebrews, early on, thousands of millenia ago struggled with paganism and pagan ideas about God. God has revealed Himself, and Israel was brought by the Holy Spirit to understand God as singular. Finally, coming to understand the old pagan gods do not exist, at all.

The first half of Deuteronomy, the Hebrew struggle with paganism is still forefront. Post exilic Deuteronomy, Israel is firm in their understanding of One God. Complete and exclusive monotheism, with no wandering ideas about even the existence of other gods.
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The world renown Hebraist and Presbyterian minister David Noel Freedman states that the phrase in Genesis “Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness” in the original Hebrew means a physical likeness and similarity, and is not a metaphorical statement. He also mentions that the verse that records that God spoke with Moses “face to face” is written in Hebrew “panim el panim” and means as a friend speaks to a friend. The ancient Hebrews believed God to be in a shape and form they recognized as similar to them.
RebeccaJ said:
Mormonism seeks a regression. Rather than viewing the struggle with paganism as something that has been overcome, by the grace of God. Mormonism seeks to reintroduce that struggle, as a truth that has been lost.
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Mormonism restores truths and authority that have been lost over time.
RebeccaJ said:
Follow the example of God’s People, who God has brought to Himself and Himself alone. Forsake pagan notions of God, as Israel did long ago.
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I appreciate the sincere invitation. Fortunately for me I’ve never embraced Paganism in the first place. I’m sure you’ll agree we’re all better off taking Moses’ teachings to heart.
 
iepuras said:
I think you are right that one needs to have the second anointing before it is possible to become a son of perdition and go to outer darkness. I have never heard of someone who has received the second anointing who was excommunicated. For example, Tom Phillips is open about the fact that he received the second anointing and is now an apostate. He has not been excommunicated. I’m not sure he even can be excommunicated because of the second anointing. He has certainly done more than John Dehlin or Kate Kelly to warrant excommunication yet he has not been exed.
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here is a link that breaks it down better. Based on Phillips experience, you are right.

mrm.org/sons-of-perdition
 
Marie5890 said:
Im not following your line of reasoning?
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Have you read about the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon? Jews coming to America and what not…battles there is absolutely no evidence of. Honeybees, asses, cattle, elephants, goats, things that weren’t in the Americas at the time. BYU is a Mormon school. I was thinking from that line of reasoning that there’s no reason I should be able to work there, so if people who believe the Book of Mormon can, I feel I should be able to
 
adamhovey1988 said:
Have you read about the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon? Jews coming to America and what not…battles there is absolutely no evidence of. Honeybees, asses, cattle, elephants, goats, things that weren’t in the Americas at the time. BYU is a Mormon school. I was thinking from that line of reasoning that there’s no reason I should be able to work there, so if people who believe the Book of Mormon can, I feel I should be able to
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Hey if you want to live by the BYU honor code, be my guest. Have a party. 👍

The BoM was not covered in any of the archeology classes that I am aware of.
Only in the religion department.

But that was 30+ years ago. I dont know what the educational structure is now.
 
gazelam said:
I respectfully disagree. There can be no other realistic interpretation other than that God does what the idols being worshipped anciently didn’t do. Are you saying that Moses intended to teach that the Jews should turn away from gods that don’t see, or hear, or eat, or smell and turn to God who, by the way, doesn’t see, or hear, or eat, or smell either?
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The teaching in this scripture is to turn away from idols. In context, an idol was made of wood, stone or clay, and the pagan belief was that the spirit of a god/goddess inhabited the idols. The point being made here, is that the man-made idols of wood, stone and clay are not alive. It isn’t saying anything about GOD.
God’s nature as Creator does not preclude Him having a physical body.
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As has already been pointed out, scripture reveals to us that God is Spirit.
The world renown Hebraist and Presbyterian minister David Noel Freedman states that the phrase in Genesis “Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness” in the original Hebrew means a physical likeness and similarity, and is not a metaphorical statement. He also mentions that the verse that records that God spoke with Moses “face to face” is written in Hebrew “panim el panim” and means as a friend speaks to a friend. The ancient Hebrews believed God to be in a shape and form they recognized as similar to them.
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I am not a disciple of David Noel Freedman. Are you?
Mormonism restores truths and authority that have been lost over time.
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What is the evidence you have for this? Please don’t provide circular arguments that amount to, Mormonism teaches it, therefore that is the evidence.
I appreciate the sincere invitation. Fortunately for me I’ve never embraced Paganism in the first place. I’m sure you’ll agree we’re all better off taking Moses’ teachings to heart.
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The defining belief of pagan religions, as compared to Christianity, is the belief in the existence of many gods/goddesses. There is One God, not plural gods. Mormonism is a paganized version of Christianity. So it is, you hold pagan beliefs at the same time you seek to follow Christ. Mose’s teachings, taken to heart, would mean a letting go of a belief in many gods/goddesses.
 
RebeccaJ said:
The teaching in this scripture is to turn away from idols. In context, an idol was made of wood, stone or clay, and the pagan belief was that the spirit of a god/goddess inhabited the idols. The point being made here, is that the man-made idols of wood, stone and clay are not alive. It isn’t saying anything about GOD.

As has already been pointed out, scripture reveals to us that God is Spirit.

I am not a disciple of David Noel Freedman. Are you?

What is the evidence you have for this? Please don’t provide circular arguments that amount to, Mormonism teaches it, therefore that is the evidence.

The defining belief of pagan religions, as compared to Christianity, is the belief in the existence of many gods/goddesses. There is One God, not plural gods. Mormonism is a paganized version of Christianity. So it is, you hold pagan beliefs at the same time you seek to follow Christ. Mose’s teachings, taken to heart, would mean a letting go of a belief in many gods/goddesses.
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If I am not mistaken, the belief in multiple gods, even if you claim to only worship one is in fact paganism. Henotheistic I do believe is the correct term, but it is still indeed paganism. It makes me wonder how much of the Bible Mormons have read, such as 1 Timothy 2:5, Deuteronomy 4:35, 1 Kings 8:60, Judith 8:20 (which I know Mormons do not consider inspired, but it is), Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 45:21, Isaiah 45:22, Daniel 14:41 (which to the best of my knowledge Mormons don’t consider a canonical part of Daniel)
I am pretty sure the Bible (which Mormons claim to believe “so far as it is correctly translated”) eliminates the possibility for there being a pantheon of gods.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
If I am not mistaken, the belief in multiple gods, even if you claim to only worship one is in fact paganism. Henotheistic I do believe is the correct term, but it is still indeed paganism. It makes me wonder how much of the Bible Mormons have read, such as 1 Timothy 2:5, Deuteronomy 4:35, 1 Kings 8:60, Judith 8:20 (which I know Mormons do not consider inspired, but it is), Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 45:21, Isaiah 45:22, Daniel 14:41 (which to the best of my knowledge Mormons don’t consider a canonical part of Daniel)
I am pretty sure the Bible (which Mormons claim to believe “so far as it is correctly translated”) eliminates the possibility for there being a pantheon of gods.
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The foundational premise of Mormonism is that important religious information and practices are lost and needed to be restored. Mormons interpret the Bible through their “restored” scriptures, and these interpretations are sometimes so different from Judeo/Christian interpretations as to make the meaning 180 degrees of what is originally there, in the Bible.

An example is in the exchange in this thread, where a scripture against pagan practices of worshipping anthropomorphic idols is claimed to support the Mormon belief in an anthropomorphic god!

But yeah, Mormonism is a polytheistic religion, teaching an existence of innumerable gods/goddesses. Their official doctrinal term for this teaching is “plural gods” and it is explicitly taught in their scriptural canon called the “Pearl of Great Price”.
 
RebeccaJ said:
The foundational premise of Mormonism is that important religious information and practices are lost and needed to be restored. Mormons interpret the Bible through their “restored” scriptures, and these interpretations are sometimes so different from Judeo/Christian interpretations as to make the meaning 180 degrees of what is originally there, in the Bible.

An example is in the exchange in this thread, where a scripture against pagan practices of worshipping anthropomorphic idols is claimed to support the Mormon belief in an anthropomorphic god!

But yeah, Mormonism is a polytheistic religion, teaching an existence of innumerable gods/goddesses. Their official doctrinal term for this teaching is “plural gods” and it is explicitly taught in their scriptural canon called the “Pearl of Great Price”.
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You know the weird thing is that the Book of Mormon, whilst Modalistic, seems to be very monotheistic. I just find that odd.
 
gazelam said:
The world renown Hebraist and Presbyterian minister David Noel Freedman states that the phrase in Genesis “Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness” in the original Hebrew means a physical likeness and similarity, and is not a metaphorical statement. He also mentions that the verse that records that God spoke with Moses “face to face” is written in Hebrew “panim el panim” and means as a friend speaks to a friend. The ancient Hebrews believed God to be in a shape and form they recognized as similar to them.
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Wouldn’t God having a human body detract from his omnipotence due to the fact that he would be constrained to how the human body functions? God bless
 
adamhovey1988 said:
There’s some really heavy evidence that Smith was a con-man
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I am beginning to believe that Ethan Smith was a better con-man than Joseph. He conned Joseph, who decided to run with it. That is the key reason why the BoM does not line up with Mormonism.
 
Jerusha said:
I am beginning to believe that Ethan Smith was a better con-man than Joseph. He conned Joseph, who decided to run with it. That is the key reason why the BoM does not line up with Mormonism.
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Okay, so apparently having the surname “Smith” is the key to being a con-man (okay, just kidding about that). But really, I mean, thinking about it, much of the beginnings of Mormonism coincide with the westward expansion in the United States, which many Americans at the time believed was God ordained. So do you think some jingoism plays into it, out of curiousness? I mean, Mormonism is the quintessential American religion, when you get right down to it. I think forcing a link between the new world and the old world was the only way Mormonism could get any traction. That said, we did not know nearly as much about the world then as we do now. That said, so Satan and Lucifer being spirit brothers, that one gets me. Or The Father having carnal relations with the Virgin Mary…
 
Remember Satin is the deceiver from the beginning, will often come as an angel of light and deceive a willing hearer.

God Bless:)

Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
Code: 
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'And if you say in your heart, `How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' --when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.
Gal. 1:8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a
gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you,
let him be anathema.
 
onenow1 said:
Remember Satin is the deceiver from the beginning, will often come as an angel of light and deceive a willing hearer.

God Bless:)

Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
Code: 
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'And if you say in your heart, `How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' --when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.
Gal. 1:8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a
gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you,
let him be anathema.
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How would you explain to them that they believe in a false Gospel?
 
adamhovey1988 said:
How would you explain to them that they believe in a false Gospel?
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By the time line of the Historical Jesus, and try explain how Christianity has so far ever last in its origins. I am racking my memory banks will bring more.

God Bless:)
 
onenow1 said:
By the time line of the Historical Jesus, and try explain how Christianity has so far ever last in its origins. I am racking my memory banks will bring more.

God Bless:)
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It is through the Church and by the Church that Jesus changed the world. Without “that error called Christianity,” as someone has defined it[16], we would not be here to speak about him. Jesus would be, today, an obscure Galilean rabbi whose name we would find only if we were to read a note on the writings of Tacitus or Flavius Josephus. There would have been no Augustine, no Francis of Assisi, no Thomas Aquinas, Luther, Pascal; there would have been no Gothic cathedrals or Romanesque churches, no Dante, no paintings of the Renaissance schools, no Michelangelo or Sistine Chapel, Bach or his Passions, Mozart and his Masses. There would, above all, have been none of the innumerable crowds of men and women who, in the name of the Christ they knew through the Church, dedicated themselves utterly to the care of suffering humanity.

Compliments of EWTN.
 
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