What do people have against Vatican II Council?

[Joysong]

Elizabeth:

And germs are transmitted from hand contact…and if someone in front of me is obviously sneezing and coughing into their hands; I have actually found myself shaking it anyway!! I’ll wipe my hand off on my clothes and just don’t touch my face…; it is gross to even think about for me as I am some what of a germaphobe (not sure thats a word). Anyway I haven’t started reading this thread yet lot’s of posts!

That is an extremely lame excuse to justify one’s preference to avoid an extension of peace, since there are ways to convey it without using a handshake. I am rather surprised that you don’t carry a sterile cloth to wipe down the pew, missalette, holy water font, and front door handle, lest those in the mass ahead of you may have sneezed and placed their hands upon them.

 

[Warren_Stassi]

Can,t tell you how much I appreciate the education. Guess my four generations of Catholisism let me down,so did catholic grammer school, high school Loyola University and a year in Jesuit seminary.I am so glad now that the windows are open???
In the United States we can impeach a president but unfortunately we can not impeach a pope.
Since hundreds of years have passed sinse the Spanich Inquisition and now it is just a memory I have faith that Vatican 2 will similarly pass and Jesus will be with his church until the end of time.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
You say understand The Holy Sacrifice—yet you did not make the connection between Calvary and our Mass.

Why don’t you explain it to us all:

1. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
2. The Meaning of the Sign of Peace
3. How Calvary relates to the sign of peace and the Mass

---

I believe we here know The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass—but I have included a link below to get you started.

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0821/__P3.HTM

 

[marybee]

I don’t think that anyone can objectively look at what has happened in the Church since Vatican II and not come to the conclusion that the Church is in a great state of crisis now.

Since the Novus Ordo Mass was introduced we have seen “Clown Masses”, we have seen a priest dressed as Dracula; in a football jersey accompanied by cheerleaders;as a cheese-head; driving a Volkswagen down the aisle of church as the people sing hosanna. There have been disco Masses; there have been gymnastic performances during the New Mass; balloon Masses; Carnival Masses; there have been nude Masses, at which scantily clad or nude people take part. The world has seen juggling Masses, at which a juggler performs during the New Mass.The world has seen priests celebrate the New Mass with Dorito Chips; with Mountain Dew; on a cardboard box; with cookies; with Chinese tea accompanied by ancestor worship; with a basketball as the priest bounces it all over the altar; with a guitar as the priest plays a solo performance. The world has witnessed the New Mass with a priest almost totally nude as he dances around the altar or with other high-wire abominations.The world has seen New Masses with priests dressed in native pagan costumes;with a Jewish Menorah placed on the altar;with a statue of Buddha on the altar; with nuns making offerings to female goddesses; with lectors and gift bearers dressed up as voodoo Satanists. The world has seen the New Mass at which the performer is dressed in a tuxedo and tells jokes. The world has seen rock concerts at the New Mass;guitar and polka New Masses;a puppet New Mass; a New Mass where the people gather round the altar dressed as devils; a New Mass where people perform lewd dances to the beat of a steel drum band. The world has seen a New Mass where nuns dressed as pagan vestal virgins make pagan offerings and the world has also seen New Masses incorporating every false religion.

This is just a sampling of the kind of thing that occurs in almost every diocese in the world where the New Mass is celebrated, to one degree or another.

Thomas

CHEESE HEAD? You must live in WI! The problem is not V2, it is those extreme Green Bay Packer fans with a little too much ZEAL!

Sir have you really seen all this stuff yourself? Or are you making stuff up? I live in WI and have NEVER once seen a Cheese Head at Mass. Now these nude masses, that might be something Id be interested in seeing

 

[anamchara]

CHEESE HEAD? You must live in WI! The problem is not V2, it is those extreme Green Bay Packer fans with a little too much ZEAL!

Sir have you really seen all this stuff yourself? Or are you making stuff up? I live in WI and have NEVER once seen a Cheese Head at Mass. Now these nude masses, that might be something Id be interested in seeing

They have seen it on u-tube they pull these same u-tube videos out and try and prove it’s all over. After investigating you find that the videos are several years old and in some cases not even a Catholic Church. These same videos are used over and over again on traditional message boards. They can’t find any others but one clown mass, a Halloween one and I think there is another one out there…so about three or four they found and it’s ALL over the world

They are easily influenced and lead, it’s rather sad actually. What’s even more sad is young people come on here thinking their Church is falling apart when they see stuff like that or it pushes them away because of this type of ridiculous claims. And what about converts?

 

[Walking_Home]

They have seen it on u-tube they pull these same u-tube videos out and try and prove it’s all over. After investigating you find that the videos are several years old and in some cases not even at at Catholic Church. These same videos are used over and over again on traditional message boards. They can’t find any others but one clown mass, a Halloween one and I think there is another one out there…so about three or four they found and it’s ALL over the world

They are easily influenced and lead, it’s rather sad actually. What’s even more sad is young people come on here thinking their Church is falling apart when they see stuff like that or it pushes them away because of this type of ridiculous claims. And what about converts?

---

You mean it is not falling apart like this: Or are you going to turn a blind eye-- that this is not happening too.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=51676

German priests reject Vatican directive on translation

 

[ElizabethPH]

You think nothing of a priest sticking his hand into your hand or your mouth after having touched the hands and mouths of most everyone in the congregation before you - and balk at shaking hands with three or four of your neighbours? Which act do you think is TRULY more likely to spread germs?

I see what you mean. But I don’t mind the priest at all; and am not thinking anything about germs when I receive the Holy Eucharist. Go figure

 

[ElizabethPH]

That is an extremely lame excuse to justify one’s preference to avoid an extension of peace, since there are ways to convey it without using a handshake. I am rather surprised that you don’t carry a sterile cloth to wipe down the pew, missalette, holy water font, and front door handle, lest those in the mass ahead of you may have sneezed and placed their hands upon them.

And your right too!!! Sorry for the lame excuse.

 

[Miserere_Mei]

Wow, there is alot of cynicism here and extreme disrespect for the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Vatican II inaugerated an era of teachings that directly contradict the teachings of previous popes and a libertarian liberalism that is something a pius XI or Leo XIII would be ashamed of. If they saw the Post-Conciliar Church now, I believe they would disown it.

What teachings? Ecumenism as tolerance and dialogue for one. THe only REAL ecumenism is conversion of heretics to the One True Church. That is the constant teaching of the church. Think about it too, positive dialogue does NOT encourage change. It really onl re-enforces the “good” in pagan and heretical religions, giving them the sense that they are just fine where they are.

The only solution is to turn from evil doctrine to Orthodox doctrine.

Religious liberty for another is a heresy of the modernists. Pius IX condemned it in his Syllabus of errors as “insanity.” No one has the right to remain in error. If they do, explain to me the missionary nature of the church? A buddhist CANNOT remain a Buddhist in light of the truth of Christ and his church, he does not have the right. God demands that we worship Him as HE has instructed not as we fell is best. THe Church knows best, and to resist her for a pagan religion is a Sin.

Etc…

 

[BobP123]

Don’t forget these are fruits of the Catholic Church as well as of the ‘spirit of Vatican 2’ - so you’re saying the whole Church is evil, not just Vatican 2. And the whole Church includes you, buddy.

Old saying - you point a finger at someone else, three of your fingers are pointing right back at you.

Then you might as well include the Pope in your accusation. After all, as Cardinal, he was pointing fingers right and left and felt things were out of control after Vatican II as well.

 

[stmaria]

They have seen it on u-tube they pull these same u-tube videos out and try and prove it’s all over. After investigating you find that the videos are several years old and in some cases not even a Catholic Church. These same videos are used over and over again on traditional message boards. They can’t find any others but one clown mass, a Halloween one and I think there is another one out there…so about three or four they found and it’s ALL over the world

They are easily influenced and lead, it’s rather sad actually. What’s even more sad is young people come on here thinking their Church is falling apart when they see stuff like that or it pushes them away because of this type of ridiculous claims. And what about converts?

Here is a video of a Mass said in 2006, Corpus Christi Tx, where a priest gives the final blessing at Mass dressed in a Barney costume. I call that an abuse. Maybe you don’t.

youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8&mode=related&search

 

[Walking_Home]

Here is a video of a Mass said in 2006, Corpus Christi Tx, where a priest gives the final blessing at Mass dressed in a Barney costume. I call that an abuse. Maybe you don’t.

youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8&mode=related&search

---

Was that supposed to be Jason–of Friday the 13th --that I saw at about 00:54 in that video.

 

[BobP123]

Here is a video of a Mass said in 2006, Corpus Christi Tx, where a priest gives the final blessing at Mass dressed in a Barney costume. I call that an abuse. Maybe you don’t.

I’ve seen too many of these to call it an abuse. It’s a standup act and it’s what you’d expect when you walk into many places of worship today. But people go for it.

Beyond sad.

 

[stmaria]

I AM able to keep my focus. And I am able to fully understand the meaning of the entire mass, do you? Why are you correlating the sign of peace with the bizzare idea of shaking hands with Calvary observers? Do you not understand the purpose of the sign of peace?

I think you are missing his point. At the very moment of Consecration Jesus is physically present on the altar.** It is as if you had been taken back in time. You and the entire congregation are there kneeling at the foot of the cross. Jesus is suffering tremendous pain. And all of a sudden everyone stands up and starts shaking hands, hugging etc.**This is why the sign of peace is wrong. There is no sign of peace in the Traditional Mass. There is silence and prayer.

 

[stmaria]

You think nothing of a priest sticking his hand into your hand or your mouth after having touched the hands and mouths of most everyone in the congregation before you - and balk at shaking hands with three or four of your neighbours? Which act do you think is TRULY more likely to spread germs?

Dearest LilyM, did you know that the Church allows you to use a spoon or a straw to drink the wine? That doesn’t seem right to me. What do you think???

 

[Joysong]

stmaria:

You and the entire congregation are there kneeling at the foot of the cross. Jesus is suffering tremendous pain. And all of a sudden everyone stands up and starts shaking hands, hugging etc.This is why the sign of peace is wrong. There is no sign of peace in the Traditional Mass. There is silence and prayer.

You are misunderstanding the Mass. Walking Home presented the Church’s understanding of the Mass above, and I quote from it:

1. The Mass makes present the sacrifice of the Cross; it does not add to that sacrifice nor does it multiply it. What is repeated is its memorial celebration, its “commemorative representation” (memorialis demonstratio), which makes Christ’s one, definitive redemptive sacrifice always present in time. The sacrificial nature of the Eucharistic mystery cannot therefore be understood as something separate, independent of the Cross or only indirectly referring to the sacrifice of Calvary.

We are not at the foot of the cross, with emotions of extreme sadness that prevent any other focus. You may wish to note the complete mystery of faith in the referenced document, as a reminder that we do not re-present just Calvary, but also the Resurrection:

1. Christ’s passover includes not only his passion and death, but also his resurrection. This is recalled by the assembly’s acclamation following the consecration: “We proclaim your resurrection”. The Eucharistic Sacrifice makes present not only the mystery of the Saviour’s passion and death, but also the mystery of the resurrection which crowned his sacrifice.

With your interpretation, we should all be doleful and heavy-hearted, refusing to sing or lift up our hearts, as the Preface invites us to do. You may wish to discuss this with your pastor in order to understand the Mass properly.

 

[Joysong]

BobP123:

I’ve seen too many of these to call it an abuse. It’s a standup act and it’s what you’d expect when you walk into many places of worship today. But people go for it.

How many would you say, Bob? 5? 500? 5,000? What is your interpretation of “many places of worship?” How many have you actually seen? I think Anamchara was more accurate in her analysis, that the videos are old, as was this one, and they are singular occurrences designed to make one think they are common.

And to use your words, THAT really is sad!

 

[marybee]

I’m not sure why everything wrong with the Church is directly linked to V2, its not like they allowed Barney costumes when V2 came around, that is forbid by both i am sure. I am sure there have always been abuses, so im not sure why people are ready to use V2 as an excuse!

 

[gorman64]

Joysong:

We are not at the foot of the cross, with emotions of extreme sadness that prevent any other focus.

Joysong,

Are we not at the foot of the Cross…or are we just not experiencing extreme sadness? Which one do you mean here?

You may wish to note the complete mystery of faith in the referenced document, as a reminder that we do not re-present just Calvary, but also the Resurrection:

The mystery of faith in the Traditional latin rite is in the form of the consecration of the wine…in the Novus ordo is has been changed to a “memorial acclaimation”.

With your interpretation, we should all be doleful and heavy-hearted, refusing to sing or lift up our hearts, as the Preface invites us to do.

Only you could characterize reverence and awe as “doleful and heavy-hearted”.

You may wish to discuss this with your pastor in order to understand the Mass properly.

Understand which Mass?

Gorman

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. That’s all folks.