What do Protestants do with Lourdes?

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AngelRose81 said:
I don’t think Protestants acknowledge ANY Marian apparations, at least none of the Protestants I know do…
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Piffle. Pshaw. Pfui.
What am** I**?:eek: Chopped liver???
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Mind you, I think Guadelupe trumps Lourdes and Fatima both. But I certainly don’t run around rejecting them, or tearing them down.
I just have my own little inner “order of amazing events”. Putting an end to centuries of human sacrifices strikes me as being at the top of the list. (🙂 IHNSHO).
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Protestants can not acknowledge any Marian apparition. It contradicts their faith. Unlike Catholics, who can accept or deny Marian apparitions and still be Catholic, Protestants have no choice in the matter. The day they accept any Marian apparition is the day they stop being Protestant.

That’s what happens when you idolize the bible; You put a limit on what God can do.
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
O.S.Luke said:
What a bigoted (and untrue) statement.
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In the absence of a “Nodding Yes While Weeping/Frowning/Grinding Teeth Smiley”, this will have to do, Luke: :console: :console: :console: :console: God bless you, brother!! You did good!!!
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episcogirl said:
I would answer your poll, but I can’t find an answer that fits how I react to Lourdes…:whacky:

I can accept and believe in Marian visitations and so on. I know many Episcopalians who pray the rosary, and not necessarily the Anglican one…

Maybe I am just “Catholic Lite”
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So, does that make me a closet Catholic? I think not. I am a Protestant that not only accepts but believes in Marian apparitions. I pray the rosary daily, in fact, I pray a regular Catholic rosary more often than I pray the Anglican one because I find it easier (have you ever tried to look up Anglican rosary/prayer bead information online? Nobody can agree on how to use them, which is both a blessing and a curse!) and also I like to meditate on the Mysteries. Plus it is only appropriate as Mary is my church’s patron saint.
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Hey, I make rosaries, for pete’s sake!!
So just where is the spot on the poll for “I sent 150 rosaries to missions just before Christmas, & I’m a Methodist” spot on the poll??🤷 🤷

PS: I made an Anglican rosary, because I couldn’t find a chaplet for my favorite saint (Teresa of Avila), and I use the small beads to ask for her prayers, and the large ones to ask for St Joseph’s. (Her 👍 favorite saint).
 
O.S.Luke said:
And an agreement with a bigoted and untrue statement.
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’

I am highly offended and hurt by that remark. I think several posters have taken what I meant WAY out of proportion. Let me see if I can clarify…

The Protestants that I KNOW that I’VE TALKED TO PERSONALY (which is what I said in the first place) don’t acknowledge any Marian Apparations. By this I mean that yes, they believe Mary was the Mother of Jesus but thats it. It goes no further than that.

In conversations that I have had with them, they simply don’t believe in apparations of any type. Don’t ask me why, they just don’t. BTW, the Protestants I am referring to are Baptists, Pentecostals and other charismatic denominations, non-denominational Christians, and some Methodists. IMHO, this stems from the statement I made that they belive that she was the Mother of Jesus and that’s it. They don’t believe in her immaculate conception nor do they belive that she was anything special other than she happened to be Jesus’ Mother.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear on what I posted and I’m sorry if I offended anyone.
 
Zooey said:
[sign1]
Piffle. Pshaw. Pfui.
What am** I**?:eek: Chopped liver???
[/sign1]
Mind you, I think Guadelupe trumps Lourdes and Fatima both. But I certainly don’t run around rejecting them, or tearing them down.
I just have my own little inner “order of amazing events”. Putting an end to centuries of human sacrifices strikes me as being at the top of the list. (🙂 IHNSHO).

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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I also never said they tore them down either.
 
No protestant law against Marian visitations that I know of. However, if you were Mary, would you appear to people who are more focused on you or less?
 
Are there any recent cases of “miraculous” healings at Lourdes?
 
I’ll tell you what, I will approach this in the same manner I approach Protestant miracles.

I see nothing in Scripture that precludes the possibility of those who are in heaven making appearances on earth. Didn’t this happen after the crucifixion of Christ? BTW wasn’t there a report that St. Ignatius appeared and taught the faithful after he was martyred?

That doesn’t mean this specific claim of the miraculous is true. Like reports of healings at an evangelistic event, I have no way of verifying for myself the veracity of these reports.

As one who has had associations and experiences in the Pentecostal / Charismatic movements, I do have some natural skepticism towards these types of reports. I think we tend to underestimate the ability of the human mind to deceive itself into believing and even self-manufacturing something that is just not real. But that is not to say that when there is a whole lot of bathwater that there is not a baby in there somewhere.

One more thing I am firm on. Reports of miracles and even true miracles do not necessarily confirm the theology of the person or organization through which they occur. Non-Christian religions I do believe also report instances of the miraculous.

Off topic…but a while back a missionary from a third world country was visiting our church. He mentioned there was an evangelistic event that he attended and at this event the evangelist announced that God was doing fillings (this may sound stupid but be aware that in third world countries there is no dental care). This missionary discovered something strange in his teeth and discovered a new filling there quite unlike he had ever had in his teeth. He displays this work to anyone who asks him when he tells this story (no I did not ask him to show me). So what to I do with this.
 
episcogirl said:
Did you know there is a PROTESTANT group called the Society of Mary? (societies.anglican.org/anglocatholic/som/aboutsociety.htm)

Talk to some anglo-catholics (read here especially Oxford Movement Episcopalians) and they believe in things like the Assumption, the Coronation, etc. The Episcopal Church I went to in Texas most certainly accepted Lourdes. We said Hail Marys between stations when doing Stations of the Cross during Lent. Even more mainstream Episcopals such as the church I attend (which, "coincidentally is St. Mary’s Episcopal Church 😉 ) subscribe to the basic beliefs about Mary and miracles at places like Lourdes.

So, you can’t lump “all” Protestant denominations together by any means.
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Or, to give it its full name: The Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary 😉​

Catholics are apt to forget that there is a strong tradition of attention to the BVM in both Anglicanism & Lutheranism. 🙂
 
mozart-250 said:
I’ll tell you what, I will approach this in the same manner I approach Protestant miracles.

I see nothing in Scripture that precludes the possibility of those who are in heaven making appearances on earth. Didn’t this happen after the crucifixion of Christ? BTW wasn’t there a report that St. Ignatius appeared and taught the faithful after he was martyred?

That doesn’t mean this specific claim of the miraculous is true. Like reports of healings at an evangelistic event, I have no way of verifying for myself the veracity of these reports.

As one who has had associations and experiences in the Pentecostal / Charismatic movements, I do have some natural skepticism towards these types of reports. I think we tend to underestimate the ability of the human mind to deceive itself into believing and even self-manufacturing something that is just not real. But that is not to say that when there is a whole lot of bathwater that there is not a baby in there somewhere.

One more thing I am firm on. Reports of miracles and even true miracles do not necessarily confirm the theology of the person or organization through which they occur. Non-Christian religions I do believe also report instances of the miraculous.

Off topic…but a while back a missionary from a third world country was visiting our church. He mentioned there was an evangelistic event that he attended and at this event the evangelist announced that God was doing fillings (this may sound stupid but be aware that in third world countries there is no dental care). This missionary discovered something strange in his teeth and discovered a new filling there quite unlike he had ever had in his teeth. He displays this work to anyone who asks him when he tells this story (no I did not ask him to show me). So what to I do with this.
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Well, I’ve prayed for people to be healed, and they’ve been healed, and I’ve prayed and there has been no discernible change, and all the rest. I think I’ve read all the books on prayer for healing by McNutt and some others due to some ongoing struggles in my life that I won’t go into. I’ve seen healings and I have been healed, in ways that are not medically explicable. Yeah, I’m charismatic. And that is way more than stating that I am not a cessationist.

Jesus used healings to prove His ministry, as did the apostles. Nowdays we have people using healings and visions, etc., to prove theologies in all directions. Not just neo-Pentecostals and Catholics but also all the trash that is out there.

I’ve been to a Marian shrine in Europe, a small chapel that is literally plastered with signs that say “Mary helps me” and many, many tons of crutches, glasses, wheelchairs, braces and other items are there that have been left behind over the centuries by those who were healed there.

I haven’t been to Lourdes.

I cannot rule out either Mary appearing to someone or something showing up claiming to be Mary “as an angel of light” - there are clear warnings about such things in Scripture.
Catholics rely on the Magisterium to give them a green light on such stuff. But what do we do?
 
O.S.Luke said:
Then I suppose two of us are offended and hurt.
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Did you even read the rest of my explanation??? I was speaking of those protestants I have had dealings with. Ones I see every day. I did not imply in anything I said that ALL protestants believe the same way. I know they don’t. I didn;t mean to offend or hurt anyone but by some other posters remarks about what I said I guess some don’t care whether or not I was hurt. And by the way, I used to be a protestant and when I was I had no problem with Marian apparitions. I don’t know whether or not I believed them as I do now but they always peaked my curiosity. And now that I’m Catholic I do fully believe in Marian apparitions and I try my best to explain them to those Protestants who don’t believe such. And I try to do this in a non-offending way. By calling me a bigot, did you not think you would offend me?
 
AngelRose:

Here is what you gave agreement to:
*Originally Posted by Charlie Zeaiter *
Protestants can not acknowledge any Marian apparition. It contradicts their faith. Unlike Catholics, who can accept or deny Marian apparitions and still be Catholic, Protestants have no choice in the matter. The day they accept any Marian apparition is the day they stop being Protestant.
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That’s what happens when you idolize the bible; You put a limit on what God can do.
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And you said:
Originally Posted by AngelRose81
I think that is what I was trying to say Thanks!
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You agreed with Charlie that “we had no choice in the matter.” And then, more offensively, you agreed with him that we idolized the Bible and limited God - a very untrue, ugly, prejudicial statement that makes you look superior. Does that not define bigotry?

I’m sure you didn’t like the accusation. But did it fit given what you agreed to in Charlie’s post?

O+
 
I would have answered your poll, but there were no options that fit, plus the last two options seemed very much like an attack on protestantism or a way of snidely showing that you don’t think much if anything at all of protestants.

I am a conver to Catholicism from Southern Baptism, and I did not know much of anything about Marian apparitions, or Catholicism in general. Here’s what I knew/thought of Catholicism when I was a Southern Baptist (I hope this helps:)

They have midnight mass on Christmas which is kind of cool
They think Peter is the first Pope
They have strange rituals
Some women become nuns
Priests wear funny garments and they call them Father
Immaculate Conception refers to Jesus
They have saints and seem to hvae some kind of devotion to Mary, bordering on idolatry

I didn’t know about Ash Wednesday or the true nature of Lent until I became a freshman in college. Many of the other protestants I knew had similar knowledge/views/misconceptions. I had never even heard of Lourdes or any other Marian devotion. I believed that Mary enjoyed marital relations with Joseph and Jesus had at least one brother named James (supported by my translation of the Bible and a gravestone dating to the time of Jesus with the inscription James the brother of Jesus.) I had never even heard of the ever-virgin, assumption, etc.

This is a problem I have noticed with many of the Catholics I know, they seem to think that protestants are aware of every nuance of the Catholic faith even though they themselves know little to nothing of protestantism. Catholics and their beliefs don’t even register to most Protestants, so when you ask what protestants do with Lourdes, the answer is most probably have never even heard of it, or do not understand it enough to have any kind of opinion.
 
One thing that is strange here is that Catholics are telling me, a Protestant, that the poll is biased against Protestants. The Catholics are telling me the same thing. Hmmm. I wrote the poll right after challenging Catholic doctrine concerning Mary on another thread, taking a very Protestant position on it.

Weird.
 
Truthstalker said:
I’ve been to a Marian shrine in Europe, a small chapel that is literally plastered with signs that say “Mary helps me” and many, many tons of crutches, glasses, wheelchairs, braces and other items are there that have been left behind over the centuries by those who were healed there.
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Well I for one would be inclined to believe this is God. After all I would have a similar inclination if the local Episcopal church had a similar shrine.
Truthstalker said:
I cannot rule out either Mary appearing to someone or something showing up claiming to be Mary “as an angel of light” - there are clear warnings about such things in Scripture.
Catholics rely on the Magisterium to give them a green light on such stuff. But what do we do?
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What do I do…maybe this is a cop out…but the same thing that I do with reports of the miraculous by say Benny Hinn. Which is to shrug my shoulders and say I dunno. And then not worry about it.

After all it is not my dog.

BTW I really don’t understand your poll options, but maybe I am dense.
 
Truthstalker said:
One thing that is strange here is that Catholics are telling me, a Protestant, that the poll is biased against Protestants. The Catholics are telling me the same thing. Hmmm. I wrote the poll right after challenging Catholic doctrine concerning Mary on another thread, taking a very Protestant position on it.

Weird.
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Your responses to your poll are biased because they only allow a person to respond in the ways you want them to.

You do not offer a way to respond as Protestants such as myself would.

You are biased simply in that you want a response the way YOU want a response, not a response given freely in any form.

Also, the poll is biased against Protestants because you made a decision on all Protestants based on what the opinon of some Protestants might be. I belive that is called “stereotyping.”

I tried to respond to your poll, but cannot, because none of your responses fits how I would respond.
 
Hi all,

The problem I see in this thread is that some Catholics tend to lump all non-Catholic Christians together under the name “Protestant”. But the objections to Marian devotion cited are those made by small but very loud groups of non-Catholics known as Evangelicals or Fundamentalists.

Anglican, United Methodist and several other Protestant denoms share many beliefs and practices we think of as distinctly Catholic. The UMs have an excellent devotional publication called “The Upper Room” which I find indistinguishable from similar Catholic publications.

The anti-Catholic venom we generally get here is from the Fundamentalists or Evangelicals (hard to tell where one ends and the other begins) most of whose religions began in 19th century America, and not from the “real” Protestants.

God bless,
Paul
 
EeyoresButerfly said:
I would have answered your poll, but there were no options that fit, plus the last two options seemed very much like an attack on protestantism or a way of snidely showing that you don’t think much if anything at all of protestants.
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This is the type of thing I am talking about.
 
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