What Do These Verses Mean?

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I need help understanding what some verses are talking about…My sister and I got in a debate about it yesterday. She thinks they are talking about all the rules and traditions Catholics have.She doesn’t believe the Church has the authority to tell people what they can and can’t do or what’s right or wrong. She believes that Catholics rely on their rules or works to save them , rather than faith in Christ… I’m not sure what to say about it and truthfully, I’m really not sure what these verses mean. What do y’all say?

" See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world ,rather than on Christ."
Col.2:8

" Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regard to a religious festival…or a Sabbath day."
Col. 2:16

" Did you recieve the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard… after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal with hunam effort?"
Gal.3:2

“So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”
Gal. 3:24-25
 
Hi KK, there is an ongoing debate if Paul were refuting Gnostics in Colosians or dealing with Judaizers. Personaly, I think he had both in mind. The gnostic philophies were based on private revelations which are contray to the deposit of faith. The Judaizers insist that one must keep the 613 laws of torah.

The guiding priniclple you need to point out, does a given tradition fall in line with apostolic oral tradition? The apostles preached and taught for about 20-30 years before writing the gospels. So, anything within christian tradition that is in line with scripture is “good” tradition. Anything contradicting scripture is to be avoided. Your position is to show where tradition and scripture harmonize each other.

Concerning works, even us protestants believe that good works is an outgrowth of active faith. We do not believe we are saved due to the good works done under our own power. We believe that good works are the result of grace and active faith based on God’s power.

👍
 
" See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world ,rather than on Christ."
Col.2:8

" Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regard to a religious festival…or a Sabbath day."
Col. 2:16

" Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard… after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal with human effort?"
Gal.3:2

“So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”
Gal. 3:24-25

These verses, written by Paul, to people in churches he had set up in his travels, refer in the main to Jewish traditions, the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) and the Mosaic Law. Paul taught that salvation was to be gotten, not through following the Mosaic law, but in believing in Jesus Christ and doing what He enjoined us to do. The Sacred Tradition in the Catholic Church represents that oral knowledge taught by Jesus which was not eventually written down in the New Testament. That portion of the oral teachings which were not written down were passed on to the first Bishops and Christians and was often commented on and recorded by the Early Church Fathers like Origen, Tertullian, etc. In fact one of the Gospel writers commented in his gospel, that if he tried to write down everything that Jesus taught it would fill many books.

Catholics do believe that we receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism and that salvation is indeed by Faith alone. What is said further, and you can find this in James, a Faith which has no works is dead. Catholics do not earn salvation by works, but they do works out of obedience to Jesus. For example Matthew 25:31 and onward tells of some of these works we are to do in imitating and following Jesus. I must pose the question, “What kind of faith does one have, who says he believes in Jesus, but neither obeys him nor imitates the works and prayers that he performed while he was here on earth?” “Is that the kind of faith that will bring salvation?”

So you see an awful lot depends on how one choses to define words like sabbath, the law, tradition, and faith. When one tries to give them their usual contemporary meaning they can be very misleading and in fact lead one down a path never intended by Jesus Christ who founded His Church on the Apostles and the Bishops who they chose to succeed them.

By the way, by Baptism we Catholics believe that we become brothers and sisters of Jesus himself and share in his role as priest, prophet, and king; a little more than being the kingskid…
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Hi KK, there is an ongoing debate if Paul were refuting Gnostics in Colosians or dealing with Judaizers. Personaly, I think he had both in mind. The gnostic philophies were based on private revelations which are contray to the deposit of faith. The Judaizers insist that one must keep the 613 laws of torah.

The guiding priniclple you need to point out, does a given tradition fall in line with apostolic oral tradition? The apostles preached and taught for about 20-30 years before writing the gospels. So, anything within christian tradition that is in line with scripture is “good” tradition. Anything contradicting scripture is to be avoided. Your position is to show where tradition and scripture harmonize each other.

Concerning works, even us protestants believe that good works is an outgrowth of active faith. We do not believe we are saved due to the good works done under our own power. We believe that good works are the result of grace and active faith based on God’s power.

👍
Click to expand...
Thanks Daniel! This helps a lot! 🙂
 
rwoehmke said:
" See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world ,rather than on Christ."
Col.2:8

" Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regard to a religious festival…or a Sabbath day."
Col. 2:16

" Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard… after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal with human effort?"
Gal.3:2

“So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”
Gal. 3:24-25

These verses, written by Paul, to people in churches he had set up in his travels, refer in the main to Jewish traditions, the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) and the Mosaic Law. Paul taught that salvation was to be gotten, not through following the Mosaic law, but in believing in Jesus Christ and doing what He enjoined us to do. The Sacred Tradition in the Catholic Church represents that oral knowledge taught by Jesus which was not eventually written down in the New Testament. That portion of the oral teachings which were not written down were passed on to the first Bishops and Christians and was often commented on and recorded by the Early Church Fathers like Origen, Tertullian, etc. In fact one of the Gospel writers commented in his gospel, that if he tried to write down everything that Jesus taught it would fill many books.

Catholics do believe that we receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism and that salvation is indeed by Faith alone. What is said further, and you can find this in James, a Faith which has no works is dead. Catholics do not earn salvation by works, but they do works out of obedience to Jesus. For example Matthew 25:31 and onward tells of some of these works we are to do in imitating and following Jesus. I must pose the question, “What kind of faith does one have, who says he believes in Jesus, but neither obeys him nor imitates the works and prayers that he performed while he was here on earth?” “Is that the kind of faith that will bring salvation?”

So you see an awful lot depends on how one choses to define words like sabbath, the law, tradition, and faith. When one tries to give them their usual contemporary meaning they can be very misleading and in fact lead one down a path never intended by Jesus Christ who founded His Church on the Apostles and the Bishops who they chose to succeed them.

By the way, by Baptism we Catholics believe that we become brothers and sisters of Jesus himself and share in his role as priest, prophet, and king; a little more than being the kingskid…
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help…

I understand better now what Paul is refering to. I was thinking it must have been something like that, but I wasn’t sure…

Yes, I agree that faith without works is dead. Just because someone says they believe in Jesus does not make them a Christian. You have to follow Him and follow His commands.

You’re right, a lot depends on how you define a word. The way some people interpret scripture can be very misleading…

Oh, and by the way, by baptism I believe we become brothers and sisters of Jesus, Himself and share in His role as prophet, priest, and king. That is so cool! But just in case you forget. Obviously, you couldn’t share in any of those roles if you weren’t a child of God! And, I’m sorry, but I’ll have to disagree with you…I’m very happy that I’m the “King’s kid”. I’m so thankful and I think it is the most awesome thing to be a child of God! I can’t think of anything greater than that! I’m sorry you don’t agree…

" Yet to all who received Him, to those who believe in His name, He gave the right to become children of God."
John 1:12
 
KingsKid91 said:
Oh, and by the way, by baptism I believe we become brothers and sisters of Jesus, Himself and share in His role as prophet, priest, and king. That is so cool! But just in case you forget. Obviously, you couldn’t share in any of those roles if you weren’t a child of God! And, I’m sorry, but I’ll have to disagree with you…I’m very happy that I’m the “King’s kid”. I’m so thankful and I think it is the most awesome thing to be a child of God! I can’t think of anything greater than that! I’m sorry you don’t agree…

" Yet to all who received Him, to those who believe in His name, He gave the right to become children of God."
John 1:12
Click to expand...
I totally agree that we are children of God through Baptism. However it is Jesus, the Son, who is King, the son of God. As his brothers and sisters of Jesus we are children of God and share in the Kings inheritence. It is a mind bending concept because Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and the father is God. So you see many of these truths depend on a particular person of the Trinity that we are alluding to when we make a statement. So yes in a sense because Jesus is God and King you could call yourself a Kingskid, but Jesus meant for you to be more than that.
 
I could not resist but ask this question: what is the role of Church? why the Church? Was the Church important to Jesus? does this Church count for something in this earth?

God Bless!
 
KingsKid91 said:
I need help understanding what some verses are talking about…My sister and I got in a debate about it yesterday. She thinks they are talking about all the rules and traditions Catholics have.She doesn’t believe the Church has the authority to tell people what they can and can’t do or what’s right or wrong. She believes that Catholics rely on their rules or works to save them , rather than faith in Christ… I’m not sure what to say about it and truthfully, I’m really not sure what these verses mean. What do y’all say?

" See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world ,rather than on Christ."
Col.2:8

" Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regard to a religious festival…or a Sabbath day."
Col. 2:16

" Did you recieve the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard… after beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal with hunam effort?"
Gal.3:2

“So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”
Gal. 3:24-25
Click to expand...
Common scripture quotes from those who have learned false ideas about of Catholicism. They are out of context and misused. Why not ask her if she would like to read a little on what the church actually teaches and believes? If she says yes, then obtain an apologetics booklet (nothing too thick!) and allow her to read. She is probably only repeating what her pastor, in his or her ignorance, has taught as truth about our faith. Curious it is that many non-denoms have their own mini-popes - their pastor. The faithful cling to every word. But, if they are wrong…

Christ’s peace.
 
It is impossible for anyone to claim the Church has no authority without following the TRADITIONS of the so-called reformers.
 
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