What do think of the previos Pope's beatification?

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ConstantineTG said:
applause

In the first century, the Apostles and all other Christians came into pagan lands and they didn’t burn them at the stake for their beliefs. The lived with them and taught to them and through example brought them to the light of Christ. The interfaith dialogue is just a modern approach to what happened in the early days of our Church. By sharing with non-believers, we approach them with love and by the grace of God may their eyes be opened to the truth. You don’t have to tell others they are wrong to prove you are right. The truth can speak for itself and stand on its own without having to oppose another idea.
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True, AS LONG AS WE DON’T COMPROMISE our own faith. Our first job is to get OURSELVES to heaven.
 
Roy5 said:
I I have been influenced by the column of Fr. McBrien of Notre Dame whose column has appeared for years in our local paper. Fr. McBrien has charged that JPII fortified the ‘old guard’ within the Church by appointing very conservative men as Bishops. I also have some doubts about what appears to be his theology - also very conservative. I believe in a ‘big tent’ church where reasonable people are permitted to disagree,

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I am curious as to what exacty one means when they refer to old guard . Just what is it about them that you find troubling. And when you refer to “conservative” theology how does that differ from the theology the Church has always adhered to? What “theology” should he have embraced?
 
ConstantineTG said:
**Sure, but did Jesus rub it in their faces that they were wrong? **Case in point, the Samaritan woman at the well.
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No, neither did He claim that everything they did from the moment they
were shown the truth was right, either.
 
maurin said:
in regards to your last sentence, I believe I have done that severaltimes on this thread, no? And again that returns me to my point: when I am asked to balance the negative with the positive pub lic actions of His Holiness, can one justly use the adjective heroic?
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I believe that one can. To me, being “heroic” does not mean you get it right all the time. None of us could live under the microscope the pontiff does and get it right all the time. We are all frail sinners. Heroic is doing what you know if best even if it is not popular.

I think that over the decades the good seed that this Pope has sown will show fruit many times over, however I do respect your different opinion on this. We can respectfully agree to disagree.
 
TheDoctor said:
I believe that one can. To me, being “heroic” does not mean you get it right all the time. None of us could live under the microscope the pontiff does and get it right all the time. We are all frail sinners. Heroic is doing what you know if best even if it is not popular.

I think that over the decades the good seed that this Pope has sown will show fruit many times over, however I do respect your different opinion on this. We can respectfully agree to disagree.
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Of course we respectfully disagree. And of course the burden of the Papacy is one not many can shoulder. Tradidi quod et accepi. The conversation centers around if the way he did this can rightly be termed heroic.
 
maurin said:
I was disappointed. I really believed Pope Benedict was taking the Church in a Traditional direction, but with the new Assisi and now the beatification, it is obvious that the status quo will be maintained.

That’s my unqualified opinion. Yours?
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I accept what the Church infallibly states! I am happy that there is one more soul in heaven that prays for us. I just hope to see him once I am dead. 😉
 
Roy5 said:
I know that I am out of line, but this rushing to make Popes saints troubles me. Pope John Paul II was a courageous man and he certainly was a kind soul who traveled far and wide to promote the faith. However, I personally would wait much longer before declaring him a saint.
To begin with, I view him as not altogether a positive force within the Church. I have been influenced by the column of Fr. McBrien of Notre Dame whose column has appeared for years in our local paper. Fr. McBrien has charged that JPII fortified the ‘old guard’ within the Church by appointing very conservative men as Bishops.
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The point is that it is a “good sign” when liberals/dissidents like McBrien don’t like Pope John Paul II (or Pope Benedict for that matter)! 🙂

Pope John Paul II was a master of public relations which did nothing but good for the Church in that respect, especially across cultural, religious and other lines.

He was a conservative religiously, even though he raised conservative eye-brows with some of his actions - mine included.

But I later came to see that what he did was well thought-out and got many non-Catholics and lapsed Catholics thinking about the Church.

My cousin was an atheist, but after participating in one of those mass events led by Pope John Paul II - well, suffice it to say he is today a priest and a missionary.

Where John Paul II unnerved Catholics was with his warm, inviting and loving outreach to one and all. This unnerved the reserve of many of us conservatives.

But he was right and we were wrong.

And that’s usually my attitude when it comes to popes . . . 😉

Alex
 
This thread is very long, and I’m sorry that I haven’t read completely through it. I’m sure there is much I would agree with and much I would disagree with. I do feel that JPII caused a lot of damage in the church, from not dealing with the sexual abuse crisis, to not investigating Fr. Maciel, and just the fact that the church seems to have deteriorated under his watch, e.g., so few Catholics believing in the Real Presence, attending Mass on Sundays, disregarding the Church’s teaching on artifical birth control, etc.

BUT, despite all of JP II’s flaws, of which there are many, there seems to be no doubt that he was a very holy man. And that gives me tremendous hope personally. His beatification, and most likely eventual cannonization, tells me that we don’t have to be perfect in all our actions as long as our heart is right. I believe that JP II did the best he knew, and that he truly loved our Lord. In many ways, he is reminiscient of our first pope, Peter. In the book of Acts, Peter had to be reprimanded by Paul, as Paul recounts in the book of Galatians:
And when Kephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he clearly was wrong. For, until some people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to draw back and separated himself, because he was afraid of the circumcised. And the rest of the Jews (also) acted hypocritically along with him, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not on the right road in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Kephas in front of all, "If you, though a Jew, are living like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
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Galatians 2:11-14

Popes are infallible in regards to teachings of morality and faith, but they are not infallible in their personal lives.

So although I’m certainly not happy with everything JP II did during his pontificate, I will celebrate his beatification.
 
I find it mind-boggling that members of a religion which preaches charity to all men are attacking their Pope for shaking hands with a black man who seems from the photograph to be the priest of a pagan religion. Believe it or not, it is occasionally necessary to have physical interaction with people in order to bring the Gospel to them. Hospodi, pomilui!
 
Cecilianus said:
I find it mind-boggling that members of a religion which preaches charity to all men are attacking their Pope for shaking hands with a black man who seems from the photograph to be the priest of a pagan religion. Believe it or not, it is occasionally necessary to have physical interaction with people in order to bring the Gospel to them. Hospodi, pomilui!
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Are you asserting that all that happened at Assisi was hand-shaking? Were not the pagans invited to pray to their false goods for peace on earth? What was the Holy Father doing encouraging false worship by non-Catholics? How does that lead people to Christ and His Church?
 
In regards to Assisi-- and I suspect I may be stretching here a bit, an “ecumenical prayer service” certainly is no Mass but wasn’t an idol allowed to reside on the Altar, the Traditional place of honor of/for the Tabernacle–is anyone else struck by the fact tht in the modern RCIA process the catechumens are still lead from the Church before the “Liturgy of the Eucharist?”
 
SouthpawLink said:
Are you asserting that all that happened at Assisi was hand-shaking? Were not the pagans invited to pray to their false goods for peace on earth?
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It’s not a false good.
What was the Holy Father doing encouraging false worship by non-Catholics? How does that lead people to Christ and His Church?
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False worship is better than no worship. Are you saying you’ve got to be perfect to even try? And yes, encouraging people to grow in piety is going to lead them closer to Christ and His Church.
 
Let’s make on point very clear. As a Catholic site, we do not allow anyone to malign anyone’s good name, especially that of a pope. You may disagree and you may express what it is that you find disagreeable. You may not post pictures or statements with the intent to suggest that the pope or anyone is unfaithful or less faithful. That is not for us to judge.

This is Catholic site. The Holy See has made its decision on this matter. Therefore, we do not allow anyone of any faith to challenge that decision or to pass judgment on this man’s sanctity. Such judgment violates charity. Any poster caught doing so will receive an infraction. If he or she repeats it, he or she may be suspended or banned.

Please limit the conversations to your opinions and show respect for the opinions of others, especially those of the Holy See. Posting with the intent to malign a person’s good name is agenda posting, which is contrary to CAF rules.
Thank You,

Thomas Casey
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Cecilianus said:
It’s not a false good.

False worship is better than no worship. Are you saying you’ve got to be perfect to even try? And yes, encouraging people to grow in piety is going to lead them closer to Christ and His Church.
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Excuse me, I meant to say “false gods.”

False worship is objectively sinful, even if those worshippers aren’t personally guilty of sin (due to ignorance). I don’t think the Holy Father should have held the gathering.

For a prayer to be efficacious, the intention must be good (and it must be directed to God, not to a false god). Moreover, the non-Catholics should be encouraged to pray for light and grace from God so that they may convert. They should not be encouraged to continue praying to their false gods.

Seeking the truth leads to faith in Christ; merely trying to be a good person, but without any care for the truth, likely won’t lead to Him.
 
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