What do Traditional Catholics think of religious freedom?

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Got timed out whilst surfing the net.

There is another interesting book about the Mexican revolution and at least one lengthy essay.

Visit Google and search “Blood Drenched Altars”

Here’s the essay from EWTN’s archives:

ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/FR94204.TXT

and here’s the book with a couple of good reviews:

amazon.com/Blood-Drenched-Altars-Francis-C-Kelley/dp/0895553198

One of the problems today is that we tend to ignore important events of the recent past.

It is especially vital to revisit these events when they impact us in three respects:
  1. religious freedom, which we seem sometimes to take for granted;
  2. the fact that we share a common border with Mexico and citizens of both Mexico and the U.S. move fluidly back and forth … yet we seem to know so little of what goes on and has gone on there; and,
  3. the events in Mexico affect our daily lives … because Mexican government policies cause such adverse affects in the lives of the Mexican people.
 
History has a strange way of being colored depending on who has the crayons.
The book I mentioned earlier was written by an author who was alive at the time, and followed the case. Which is why I tend to go by what he reported, rather than something the Catholic church says (because, as you said, history has a strange way of being colored depending on who has the crayons.)
 
(because, as you said, history has a strange way of being colored depending on who has the crayons.)
Believe whatever you wish. It is your free choice.

An in depth study could be done to look at original documents of the time, newspaper accounts, letters and correspondence of those involved if we had time. It is not only history that is created that is colored by biases, but the version of history one accepts is colored by biases and one’s party line. You certainly would not want to accept or believe anything that Catholics say. Surely Pope Pius XII collaborated with the Nazis to eliminaate Jews and Jesus’s disciples stole His body. Cardinal O’Connor was right as you say. Only true religions can have true apostates. Think about the implications. Mazeltov
 
Believe whatever you wish. It is your free choice.

An in depth study could be done to look at original documents of the time, newspaper accounts, letters and correspondence of those involved if we had time. It is not only history that is created that is colored by biases, but the version of history one accepts is colored by biases and one’s party line. You certainly would not want to accept or believe anything that Catholics say. Surely Pope Pius XII collaborated with the Nazis to eliminaate Jews and Jesus’s disciples stole His body. Cardinal O’Connor was right as you say. Only true religions can have true apostates. Think about the implications. Mazeltov
I remember also seeing newspaper articles from that time period, that my mother had saved (she was in the process of converting from Catholicism to Orthodox Judaism during WW2, when the Zoller case arose, she told me much about it also.)

I would accept what the Catholic church said if I felt it made sense and fit with the established facts of the case from unbiased sources.

But unfortunately, as much good as Pius XII did do, I also know that many, if not most, of the Jewish children saved by the church were also baptized. This enabled the church to have a claim over them after the war (as in the infamous Edgardo Mortara case of the 1800s).

There were many Jewish children whose parents returned for them after the war, and were not able to get them for this reason, Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith being one of them.
 
I am well aware that the acceptance of religious freedom only became the position of the Catholic Church at Vatican II. Before that, while it was accepted among some members of the Church, it was not accepted by the Church hierarchy. I also know that Traditionalist Catholics tend to oppose the changes of Vatican II. Do Traditionalist Catholics oppose religious freedom as well? Seeing as it was one of the Vatican II changes.
The encyclical Libertas from Pope Leo XIII explains, in alot of detail, the traditional catholic understanding of true liberty.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
 
It’s not so clear, as puzzleannie asserts, that the religious liberty declared by *Dignitatis Humanae *was how the concept was understood before Vatican II - but it’s also not so clear that it wasn’t. The problem is that we have different ways of articulating theories in different situations and with different emphases.

One of the biggest problems preventing an understanding of Vatican II in continuity with tradition is that many people import contemporary American conceptions of religious freedom into Vatican II. Many think it says that everyone is free to believe what they think is true and to act on that, provided it does not cause physical harm to someone else’s person or property. Thus, the state should remain neutral towards religions until such time as it must intervene for safety’s sake/public order.

If you look at the first few paragraphs of Dignitatis Humanae, though, you’ll find that it re-articulates the traditional duties of both individuals and societies towards the true religion (Catholicism). No one has a right to believe something other than/contrary to the Catholic faith because no one has a right to do wrong. Rights exist only for the good. The religious liberty declared by the council, then, is not the right to believe what one wants but the right not to be coerced in religious matter within three reasonable limitations. These are safeguarding 1) the rights of all, 2) public peace, and 3) public morality.

So how does all that play out? First of all, societies still have a moral duty to recognize and promote the true religion. This does not have to be done through official or constitutional channels, so those who claim that countries who removed official preference for Catholicism from the constitutions have betrayed Catholic tradition are simply wrong. It does mean, though, that it is perfecly legitimate for there to be legal or constitutional preference for Catholicism, and at any rate the society as a whole is bound to strive to instantiate Catholicism in their communities as best as can be done (while respecting in turn the freedom of individuals from coercion in religious matters). The public morality clause is probably the biggest remaining question mark of the whole declaration, as it is that clause that places it in strongest continuity with the past but that is ambiguous enough not to tell us precisely where the limits of state intervention lie.

Paul VI, for instance, exhorted world leaders to make/keep contraception illegal (in Humanae Vitae). Remember, this is the pope who signed Dignitatis Humanae, and here he is saying that two adults who both freely consent to this particular, otherwise immediately victimless, sin should be liable to legal sanction. But what are the limits? St. Robert Bellarmine, defending the classical Catholic position that heretics could be punished even with death, argued that one of the biggest problems with heretics was that, unlike those who are honest about belonging to a different religion entirely, heretics are like counterfeiters who try to pass off their own beliefs as true Christianity. The rationale for punishment was not that they believed the wrong thing or that they worshiped the wrong way, rather it was that in their public activity they tried to pass off their false beliefs as real Christianity. I wonder if that line of reasoning doesn’t fall under the protection of public morality, for as Paul VI declared governments still have the right and duty (insofar as possible) to uphold the natural law - counterfeiting is certainly against the natural law, and has more of a victim than illicit sex between consenting partners. So where do we draw the lines?

The answer is that we simply don’t know yet. Modern popes have been clear in their support for religious liberty, but they are also speaking to a specific context, especially one in which most people are now fully aware that, say, Catholicism and Lutheranism are two separate, incompatible belief systems. We need some serious theological work, nevertheless, to make clear for all of us just what the lines of continuity are between “heresy has no rights” and “heretics are subject to legal penalties” to “everyone should be free to worship in public and present their beliefs openly.” There does appear to be a strong continuity, but it’s limits are ill-defined and its ramifications have never been examined apart from modern misconceptions of “separation of Church and State.”
 
I remember also seeing newspaper articles from that time period, that my mother had saved (she was in the process of converting from Catholicism to Orthodox Judaism during WW2, when the Zoller case arose, she told me much about it also.)

I would accept what the Catholic church said if I felt it made sense and fit with the established facts of the case from unbiased sources.

But unfortunately, as much good as Pius XII did do, I also know that many, if not most, of the Jewish children saved by the church were also baptized. This enabled the church to have a claim over them after the war (as in the infamous Edgardo Mortara case of the 1800s).

There were many Jewish children whose parents returned for them after the war, and were not able to get them for this reason, Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith being one of them.
Which articles did you see? Who published them?

Unbiased sources may be impossible to find. The best we may be able to do is recognize our own biases. I doubt that most of the Jewish children saved by Catholics or the Church were baptized. That is a ridiculous claim and surely you realize that. I don’t know the detailed history, but do know the Church’s doctrine on baptism. In order to provide papers for children and prove they were Catholic they needed baptismal certificates. These are documents that are used now as well, for Church purposes, when someone wants to get married in the Church, or to arrange for a funeral. The Church would not give these documents unless the baptism occured. So if a Catholic family were sheltering a Jewish child as was common it needed a certificate to prove the child was not Jewish. It is understandable that after the war many children brought into these families would have lost their parents and the families would have grown attached to them. That happens today with foster care situations. This is not a bad thing that we humans do, but a noble thing. We love.

It was Mortara’s decision to remain Catholic. I do know that history. I can see why the decision was controversial, but also understand both sides. There is no need to have an argument about it and go over and over the story again and again. There are sincere people who don’t see life through your eyes and biases, as I accept that of myself. Whatever the motives of Zolli to convert can be disputed I suppose, but the insinuation that he was insincere, on the grounds that he did not live out the faith are pretty baseless. He died a Catholic at peace with himself.

If you look at Church history as published by the Church there is a great similarity with Old Testament Jewish history as published by the Jews. Both histories show a people full of warts and blemishes. The Jews recorded their history very honestly. They did not try to make themselves look good. When they did evil they recorded it and the consequences. When they did noble things they did the same. As you look back into antiquity the same is true of the historical record of Catholicism. Jesus’s apostles recorded their history and they portray themselves as nitwits, especially Peter their leader. He is portrayed as a bumbling oaf. King David was the same. He was full of fault and nobility. All the disputes and controversies and scandals are preserved honestly. There were wicked popes who are a source of scandal to the Church as there were holy ones. Their were noble Jews and bad guys. None of it is buried or distorted.

Some of the evils outsiders accuse Chrisitans of are valid accusations. There are also malicious lies that have been told to impugn the Church’s reputation. Those whose bias is against the Church tend to believe them, because they want them to be true. This is human nature.

I checked out of the supermarket this morning. The tabloid headline said Hilary is a lesbian. Some people will scoff and disbelieve the story and others will pounce on it as fact. It will depend on whether they like her or not. If they like her it is a lie from the vast right wing conspiracy. If the do not like her it is proof of what they suspected all along.

To one degree or another you believe what you want to believe, because you are human, despite the fact that you think you are objective.
 
Which articles did you see? Who published them?

Unbiased sources may be impossible to find. The best we may be able to do is recognize our own biases. I doubt that most of the Jewish children saved by Catholics or the Church were baptized. That is a ridiculous claim and surely you realize that. I don’t know the detailed history, but do know the Church’s doctrine on baptism. In order to provide papers for children and prove they were Catholic they needed baptismal certificates. These are documents that are used now as well, for Church purposes, when someone wants to get married in the Church, or to arrange for a funeral. The Church would not give these documents unless the baptism occured. So if a Catholic family were sheltering a Jewish child as was common it needed a certificate to prove the child was not Jewish. It is understandable that after the war many children brought into these families would have lost their parents and the families would have grown attached to them. That happens today with foster care situations. This is not a bad thing that we humans do, but a noble thing. We love.

It was Mortara’s decision to remain Catholic. I do know that history. I can see why the decision was controversial, but also understand both sides. There is no need to have an argument about it and go over and over the story again and again. There are sincere people who don’t see life through your eyes and biases, as I accept that of myself. Whatever the motives of Zolli to convert can be disputed I suppose, but the insinuation that he was insincere, on the grounds that he did not live out the faith are pretty baseless. He died a Catholic at peace with himself.

If you look at Church history as published by the Church there is a great similarity with Old Testament Jewish history as published by the Jews. Both histories show a people full of warts and blemishes. The Jews recorded their history very honestly. They did not try to make themselves look good. When they did evil they recorded it and the consequences. When they did noble things they did the same. As you look back into antiquity the same is true of the historical record of Catholicism. Jesus’s apostles recorded their history and they portray themselves as nitwits, especially Peter their leader. He is portrayed as a bumbling oaf. King David was the same. He was full of fault and nobility. All the disputes and controversies and scandals are preserved honestly. There were wicked popes who are a source of scandal to the Church as there were holy ones. Their were noble Jews and bad guys. None of it is buried or distorted.

Some of the evils outsiders accuse Chrisitans of are valid accusations. There are also malicious lies that have been told to impugn the Church’s reputation. Those whose bias is against the Church tend to believe them, because they want them to be true. This is human nature.

I checked out of the supermarket this morning. The tabloid headline said Hilary is a lesbian. Some people will scoff and disbelieve the story and others will pounce on it as fact. It will depend on whether they like her or not. If they like her it is a lie from the vast right wing conspiracy. If the do not like her it is proof of what they suspected all along.

To one degree or another you believe what you want to believe, because you are human, despite the fact that you think you are objective.
Catholics who rescued Jewish children did not get them baptized?

Maybe you should read this personal account, one of many:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFD9123CF936A35756C0A967958260
 
Catholics who rescued Jewish children did not get them baptized?

Maybe you should read this personal account, one of many:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFD9123CF936A35756C0A967958260
It is pretty hard to make a universal statement about what any group of people did in any time period, impossible in fact.

I have read of instances where children were baptized to get them safely out of Nazi hands, to provide them papers. Life was chaotic. People all over the continent were faced with crises and dealt with them as individuals on a case by case basis, as well as there being an insituttional effort or general policy to be helpful to save lives. Some Christians did nothing. Some were heroic. Some behaved discgracefully. There are Jews whose lives are exemplary and there are Jews who are criminals.

The Nazis inflamed hatred against the Jews by using examples and lies of Jews who were greedy or whatever. Surely some were. It is the same today when we hear pundits telling Americans that illegal immigrants are all rapists and murderers and drug dealers. They might have snuck across the border illegally, but most are decent people. For all the isolated instances the media jumps on, I know personally families who are benefitting and contributing to the health of our society. I admire them. They are moral kind people.
 
=Andreas Hofer;3620134]It’s not so clear, as puzzleannie asserts, that the religious liberty declared by *Dignitatis Humanae *was how the concept was understood before Vatican II - but it’s also not so clear that it wasn’t. The problem is that we have different ways of articulating theories in different situations and with different emphases.

One of the biggest problems preventing an understanding of Vatican II in continuity with tradition is that many people import contemporary American conceptions of religious freedom into Vatican II.

Many think it says that everyone is free to believe what they think is true
and to act on that, provided it does not cause physical harm to someone else’s person or property. Thus, the state should remain neutral towards religions until such time as it must intervene for safety’s sake/public order.

Ask the average Catholic what is meant by religious liberty and they will say exactly that. They believe that everyone is free to believe that they think is true. If you tell them that all men are bound by divine law to embrace the Catholic Church they look at you as if you have lost your mind.
If you look at the first few paragraphs of Dignitatis Humanae, though, you’ll find that it re-articulates the traditional duties of both individuals and societies towards the true religion (Catholicism). No one has a right to believe something other than/contrary to the Catholic faith because no one has a right to do wrong. Rights exist only for the good. The religious liberty declared by the council, then, is not the right to believe what one wants but the right not to be coerced in religious matter within three reasonable limitations. These are safeguarding 1) the rights of all, 2) public peace, and 3) public morality
.

Why did the Council feel the need to address the issue of Religious Liberty? It has alway been the teaching of the Church that no one can be coerced into a religious belief. This had to have been done for the sake of other religions to win their approval.
So how does all that play out? First of all, societies still have a moral duty to recognize and promote the true religion. This does not have to be done through official or constitutional channels, so those who claim that countries who removed official preference for Catholicism from the constitutions have betrayed Catholic tradition are simply wrong
.
Didn’t Spain which was a Catholic state do exactly that? I am looking for the quote where Pope Paul did not object to Spain changing her Constitution which made Catholicism no longer the religion of the state.
The public morality clause is probably the biggest remaining question mark of the whole declaration, as it is that clause that places it in strongest continuity with the past but that is ambiguous enough not to tell us precisely where the limits of state intervention lie.
In a perfect world the state would not be separated from the Church. All laws would be based on the teachings of Christ. Instead as Pope Pius IX “Quanta Cura” stated"
“Nor can We predict happier times for religion and government from the plans of those who desire vehemently to separate the Church from the state, and to break the mutual concord between temporal authority and the priesthood. It is certain that that concord which always was favorable and beneficial for the sacred and the civil order is feared by the shameless lovers of liberty”

In my opinion because the State has separated from the Church the state has become Godless. Immoral laws are on the books. The Protestant understanding of religious liberty, that one can believe whatever one wants or not believe anything at all has made all nations Godless and immoral.
 
Note:

Please return to the topic of religious freedom. This is not the proper thread for discussions of the cases of Rabbi Zolli or Edgardo Mortara. Thank you.
 
Ask the average Catholic what is meant by religious liberty and they will say exactly that. They believe that everyone is free to believe that they think is true. If you tell them that all men are bound by divine law to embrace the Catholic Church they look at you as if you have lost your mind.
.

Why did the Council feel the need to address the issue of Religious Liberty? It has alway been the teaching of the Church that no one can be coerced into a religious belief. This had to have been done for the sake of other religions to win their approval.
I’m not going to disagree that the way religious liberty was presented by and after the council has led to incredibly unfortunate consequences. I’m just saying that those consequences need not mean the document itself broke with tradition. I do think the document probably managed to stay within the bounds laid out by the earlier magisterium, but I’m going to withhold any outright endorsement of Dignitatis Humanae’s position until I’ve had the time to study the issue very closely.

.
Didn’t Spain which was a Catholic state do exactly that? I am looking for the quote where Pope Paul did not object to Spain changing her Constitution which made Catholicism no longer the religion of the state.

In a perfect world the state would not be separated from the Church. All laws would be based on the teachings of Christ. Instead as Pope Pius IX “Quanta Cura” stated"
“Nor can We predict happier times for religion and government from the plans of those who desire vehemently to separate the Church from the state, and to break the mutual concord between temporal authority and the priesthood. It is certain that that concord which always was favorable and beneficial for the sacred and the civil order is feared by the shameless lovers of liberty”

In my opinion because the State has separated from the Church the state has become Godless. Immoral laws are on the books. The Protestant understanding of religious liberty, that one can believe whatever one wants or not believe anything at all has made all nations Godless and immoral.
I see that I myself fell into the trap of ambiguous language. By betray tradition I meant “act inherently contrary to the traditional teaching of the Church.” Constitutional government is still a pretty new phenomenon, all things considered, and society’s duty toward true religion need not be expressed through specifically constitutional favoring of Catholicism. A state could theoretically, then, remove this from their constitution while the society it governs could still fulfill its duty toward the truth.

You seem to be taking betray tradition in the sense of Spain turning its back on Catholic tradition and, as a society, failing in its duty. With this I agree. It has certainly happened. As has happened pretty well in France and Italy, as is well underway even in Austria (which still largely supports the Church legally in many ways, though not nearly as robustly as before, and certainly with less *societal *support, which is what really matters).

But even in a perfect state where the civil law was in full conformity with divine law (something not realizeable this side of the eschaton), Church and State would be separate. Pius IX is reacting to rabid separationism that would claim the state must take no cognizance of the Church, but even he would agree with St. Robert Bellarmine (check out his De Laicis) that the state and the Church have different aims and competencies.
 
Leo XIII and Pius XI also explained how there are two separate spheres and the Church and State are supreme in their respective spheres. They should, however, work together in harmony since they both are subject to the same God and both have the common good of man as a common goal.

Pope Benedict XVI, in Deus Caritas Est, said the same when he he said the spheres are distinct, yet always inter-related.

Bl. Pius IX was reacting to a movement that sought to separate truth and state as once Catholic nations were abandoning their Catholic identity.

However, I think we see the approach on this issue changing because the circumstances are changing. Now, we are seeing a a return to the ideas of the Fathers who lived in non-Christian states since the Church is again in essentially pagan nations. A different approach can be taken when the state is completely Catholic. (both appraches are based on the same underlying principles).

The only way to make it completely Catholic again is by evagenlization–as the Pope said recently when urging us to extend the reign of Christ.
 
Religious Liberty was one of the most debated documents at the Council. Even the Council Fathers could not agree on what was actually being proposed. They disagreed just like we do on this forum.
Father Ralph Wiltgren was at the Council and from his notes he wrote his book on the Council entitled The Rhine flows into the TIber.
He recorded some of the debate. It is interesting to read what was being said.
I find it interesting that the document on Religious Liberty was originally called, “Freedom of Cult” and that it was first presented by Cardinal Bea as Chapter 5 of the schema on *Ecumenism. *They decided to introduce it as an independent schema so it was entitled” On Religious Liberty.”

From the book
Cardinal Ritter addressed the Council and said that he regarded religious freedom as, “a basis and perquisite** for ecumenical contacts **with other Christian bodies.”

Pg 164 “The next speaker was Cardinal Ottaviani. He said that the declaration stated a principle which had always been recognized, namely, that no one could be forced in religious matters. But the text was guilty of exaggeration in stating that “he is worthy of honor” who obeys his conscience. It would be better to say that such a person was deserving of tolerance or of respect and charity. “The principle that each individual has the right to follow his own conscience must suppose that that conscience is not contrary to the divine law”, he asserted. There was missing in the text “an explicit and solemn affirmation of the first and genuine right to religious freedom, which objectively belongs to those who are members of the true revealed religion.
The Cardinal said that it was “a very serious matter’ to assert that every kind of religion had the freedom to propagate itself. That would “clearly result in harm for those nations where the Catholic religion is the one generally adhered to by the people.” He also said that an Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church could not ignore the fact “that the rights of the true religion are based, not only on merely natural rights, but also, and to a much greater degree, on the rights which flow from revelation.”

-“ Cardinal Palacios of Spain… said the text was filled with ambiguities, new doctrine being favored at the expense of traditional doctrine."

Even they recognized the ambiguities. And it appears from the text of the document that the writers had to convince the conservatives that the document was not a break from tradition by adding this line:

“Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. **Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine **on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.”
 
Even they recognized the ambiguities. And it appears from the text of the document that the writers had to convince the conservatives that the document was not a break from tradition by adding this line:

“Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. **Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine **on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.”
And that clause is, of course, what we should use to interpret the ambiguities (even though so many people have not yet done so).
 
One of the clarifications that needs to be considered is this (in terms of “restating” the original question:

“What do Traditional AMERICAN Catholics think of religious freedom?”

I would think that American Traditional Catholics support freedom of religion.

Traditional Catholics in other countries may or may not support religious freedom.

On the other hand, there aren’t many countries or cultures where Traditional Catholics have much influence over the issue.

Seems to me that in “most” / many other cultures, it is the Traditional Catholics who are under attack.

Education in Catholic teaching is resisted or opposed. A huge percentage know nothing or very little about Traditional Catholicism … such as the Real Presence. Huge percentages of Catholics have stopped going to Mass on Sunday. Artificial birth control and abortion seem to be the order of the day, resulting in very low birth rates for … for example, Catholics in Europe.

I was surfing on Amazon yesterday in response to a question someone asked on CAF … and apparently there is active persecution of Traditional Catholics in various countries around the world.

So, it is interesting to see the original post worded the way it is.
 
The answer to the question can be answered with a simple question. What is the alternative?
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
(1) Can the view of the Catholic Church simply be summed up as “in order to maintain a moral and just society, the State must uphold moral truth in its laws, and since total moral truth is only found within Catholic Doctrine, the State must uphold Catholic Doctrine?”

I’m cool with that. Obviously every Catholic should tow the Doctrinal line in how they vote and so on (and I know many don’t sadly). There’s no such thing as “religious liberty,” and there never has been. We all “impose our beliefs” on one another every single day. And there’s no such thing as a “neutral belief system,” although liberal-democratic America would like to pretend that it’s found one.

(2) If there’s been a “development” in how we should think about religious freedom within a given society, it can only be chalked up to the changing circumstances which we find ourselves in with each age. I think that’s what Andreas Hofer was implying at the end of his big post, and it sounds right to me.

I think these changing circumstances are why Pope B16 is trying to encourage the re-development of Natural Law theory, so that people can be Catholic without necessarily becoming Catholic. Conversion of the mind first, then conversion of the soul. Excellent tactics, IMHO! Man, I love that guy.

(3) Muslims, Jews, et al were allowed to practice their religions in relative freedom within Catholic states in the past, were they not? What were the circumstances by which this was allowed?
 
I think that religious freedom is one of the positive things about Liberalism (that is, classical liberalism, the political philosophy of the founding of the United States of America, not “liberalism” as it is currently used/defined, which in truth is socialism). I generally support it.

Religious freedom is something that is easy for Catholics (or Muslims) to reject if they live in a very Catholic (or Islamic) kingdom/country. After all, they’re in no danger of being abused; Big Brother’s got their back. But religious freedom quickly becomes something that is yearned for when your country suddenly no longer represents your faith, or is antagonistic toward it. While it is certainly not inevitable that Catholics living in Islamic nations, and vice-versa, will be abused – history shows many relatively peaceful and healthy situations in this regard – religious freedom is a contractual safeguard against such very possible acts.
 
I have no problem following the laws of the United States, so long as I recognize that civil law toes not supersede the law of 'God. Any action on my part will be according to the teaching of the Church, as this is what most accurately reflects the laws of God. For those who do not believe this, I simply keep them in prayer.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
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