What do traditionalists think of LifeTeen Masses' appeal?

[Matt33]

The quotes are from Ethylzguy (how can I get his name in the quotes if he specifically responds in my quotes?

You’re mixing apples and oranges. The rebellious ones I refer to are here at CAF, not at the LifeTeen in my parish. The kids in our LifeTeen program are very reverent and sincere. They ARE drawn in by the environment. As they progress, they become interested in the Latin prayers in the Mass. But they are not rebellious toward the Church. They don’t stand around, criticizing the post conciliar Church. They don’t sit around declaring Paul VI to be spineless, or John Paul II to be a heretic, or Benedict XVI to be a modernist and traditionalist at the same time. I’ve never heard the kids in our LifeTeen program even comment about the SSPX or the TLM. Guess it’s because they’re focused on Christ and the Mass.

Maybe you should start a thread for the teens which you speak of but this thread is about liifeteen teens. If you want to talk about the many SSPX teen groups please show us some. I must say that in my experience not a lot of teens “sit around declaring Paul VI to be spineless” or debate the postconcillier Church. Perhaps you know some that do, I dont. It just seems to be anouther bait tactic to rail against Traditionalists of which you have made your personal cause.

They show plenty of it at our LifeTeen program. As I’ve stated before, some of these kids put their parents’ generation to shame

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Good. This is not hard to do.

Teens find many different ways to thumb their nose at the establishment

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So do old hippies that I know.

Feeling guilty? Sounds like a traditionalist fantasy to me. There is nothing appealing at all coming from the angry, defiant, young posters here who viciously attack the Church as if they have all the answers and the current Church hierarchy is nothing but a group of mindless buffoons

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Nor is there anytihing apealing of hatred, cynicism or thread jacking.

 

[ethelzguy]

The quotes are from Ethylzguy (how can I get his name in the quotes if he specifically responds in my quotes?

Maybe you should start a thread for the teens which you speak of but this thread is about liifeteen teens. If you want to talk about the many SSPX teen groups please show us some. I must say that in my experience not a lot of teens “sit around declaring Paul VI to be spineless” or debate the postconcillier Church. Perhaps you know some that do, I dont. It just seems to be anouther bait tactic to rail against Traditionalists of which you have made your personal cause.
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Good. This is not hard to do.

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So do old hippies that I know.

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Nor is there anytihing apealing of hatred, cynicism or thread jacking.

Resorting to personal attacks now?

 

[Matt33]

Good post Fresh. I didn’t think it was viciously attacking the Church.

 

[Matt33]

Resorting to personal attacks now?

Sorry, no.

 

[Freshman88]

Good post Fresh. I didn’t think it was viciously attacking the Church.

Ridiculous! I suggested that youth oriented masses don’t work, I don’t think I could have constructed an attack any more vicious then that! What will I do next? Perhaps something as diabolical as advocating the return of chant! muahahah



I try not to stay around here too long, way too much silliness.

 

[MrS]

Resorting to personal attacks now?

It may seem like that to you e-g. But you have seen a lot of posts here where members comment on your shotgun blasts at or in the direction of those who prefer a liturgy other than the one to whichi you espouse.

If you like the LT, go for it. But I pray that more priests become strong in the Liturgy of the ages… and that IS happening now… and they are often young priests who never had a use for LT.

As a most recent example, our rather young (mid-40s) pastor is now only 8 years a priest.

But the rather liberal parish he was given has seen many many improvements in the liturgy and the life of the parish these past three years.

Abuses are now only a rarity by laity making mistakes.

Fellowship is way up… just no longer interupting the Mass.

Sacraments are more in demand from parishioners who see their value

The organ is back in use, chant is used often, and the music finally lacks the HaagenDass ice cream flavor of the fad lovers.

The youth group has grown 4-5 fold. They are aware of LT and said “no thanks”.

And this morning the Introit was re-introduced after decades of mothballs. A brief explanation and a few minutes of practice, and the Mass began.

Oh, there were comments about this “tradition”, like
“That was beautiful…”
“Wonderful to start the Mass that way…”
“I was able to focus on the Mass starting out like that…”
etc

gee, I didn’t hear any comments about “… that was no fun…” or “…dark ages…”

The point is this… if Catholics in the pews were willing to listen to good instructions, and the priests were willing to give it…

we wouldn’t need LiveTeen to keep up the temporary numbers.

Ethel… how do you do it? Your guy needs a hobby… send him to LT.

 

[ethelzguy]

Ethel… how do you do it? Your guy needs a hobby… send him to LT.

How do I do it?

How does a gal not love a guy who is passionate about his church and his faith?

When I look over his shoulder at this website, I shake my head.

He has much more patience than I ever could have.

eml

 

[Matt33]

How do I do it?

How does a gal not love a guy who is passionate about his church and his faith?

When I look over his shoulder at this website, I shake my head.

He has much more patience than I ever could have.

eml

If this website bothers you guys so much then why bring such discord into your hearts. There is so much negative being posted on here. You also take part in this sparing. Even the above quote has bitterness o it.
But the good of the above quote is that like 2 sparrows in a hurricane you two are a team and that is important. That is how my wife and I are too. Though your posts get under my skin and can make me angry, I recognize that you are my Brother and sister, Just the ones I like to fight with. See you in heaven God willing

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

i do not think lifeteen is a good idea. it may have good intent, but it is misguided, like most post vii movements. when i went to a lifeteen mass, it was too casual and too profane in my opinion.

we need a traditional teen movement.

let it be known, traditionalists want to reconquer the church. we want the entire church to be familiar with latin, gregorian chant, polyphony and plain chant. we want the latin mass to be norm.

while we may tolerate liturgical abberations, we do not have to like them or support them.

 

[Matt33]

Ridiculous! I suggested that youth oriented masses don’t work, I don’t think I could have constructed an attack any more vicious then that! What will I do next? Perhaps something as diabolical as advocating the return of chant! muahahah



I try not to stay around here too long, way too much silliness.

What I get from this forum is that I can see a little of myself in many posters here. good and bad. Manytime I am cynical judgemental and downright nasty in my views on certain types of people. And right or wrong, when I see the opposite of what I thjink and it is coming at me in a way of judgementalism, hatred, bitterness, cynisism, and generalzations it makes me check myself for the same problems. THis can better me and it can also harden me if I let it. But mostly it can teach me. That is why I hang around this silliness.
We have started to introduce more traditional masses at LT lately and it is going aweesome!!! Even some chant which the kids love.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

I was asked by the Priest if I would help with the LT. Very reluctantly I agreed since I was never a fan of it. I thought maybe God was calling me to help out in some way so I did it. Within just two nights of helping out at the after Mass LT get togethers one of the girls there intercepted a note being passed from a teenage girl with mental problems to a young man… without being too explicit the note was very crudely asking for a good time. After the event I passed the note and the info onto the youth coordinator. I was told they knew this girl had some issues but they let her keep coming despite it.

On other occassions there was a young man sharing a lilipop with one of the girls - they would lick it and pass it back and forth - sounds real wholesome huh? And some of the videos they allowed the kids to make to show the other members at teen night were loaded with sexual inuendos wholely inappropriate for any situation.

In good conscience I could not stay so I left. I was doing a middle of the night Perpetual Adoration hour and was reading a book about St. Don Bosco. After reading how he treated his boys and educated them in the faith and comparing that to the modern LT method I knew I could not remain - it was too scandalous all the way around to be a part of this movement. Saint Don Bosco would not allow kids to stay who were bad influences - this would be totally unacceptable in today’s world.

There are some serious issues with the founder as noted. This whole LT movement was started by a wacko pervert and Catholics around the world have bought into it hook, line, & sinker. How many souls will he now take with him into his nondenominational, ‘non-judgmental’ praise center? Many will leave the Catholic Church over this.

 

[Matt33]

I was asked by the Priest if I would help with the LT. Very reluctantly I agreed since I was never a fan of it. I thought maybe God was calling me to help out in some way so I did it. Within just two nights of helping out at the after Mass LT get togethers one of the girls there intercepted a note being passed from a teenage girl with mental problems to a young man… without being too explicit the note was very crudely asking for a good time. After the event I passed the note and the info onto the youth coordinator. I was told they knew this girl had some issues but they let her keep coming despite it.

On other occassions there was a young man sharing a lilipop with one of the girls - they would lick it and pass it back and forth - sounds real wholesome huh? And some of the videos they allowed the kids to make to show the other members at teen night were loaded with sexual inuendos wholely inappropriate for any situation.

In good conscience I could not stay so I left. I was doing a middle of the night Perpetual Adoration hour and was reading a book about St. Don Bosco. After reading how he treated his boys and educated them in the faith and comparing that to the modern LT method I knew I could not remain - it was too scandalous all the way around to be a part of this movement. Saint Don Bosco would not allow kids to stay who were bad influences - this would be totally unacceptable in today’s world.

There are some serious issues with the founder as noted. This whole LT movement was started by a wacko pervert and Catholics around the world have bought into it hook, line, & sinker. How many souls will he now take with him into his nondenominational, ‘non-judgmental’ praise center? Many will leave the Catholic Church over this.

You can’t beat the system for outside. Think of the young people passing the notes you mentioned they need you not to abandon them.

 

[Unitas]

Your average lifeteen Mass breaks any numbers of liturgical rules and is loaded with abuses. It is community oriented and seeks to be more “Teen” than sacred, giving it an intimate communal character. Obviously, this goes against everything traditionalists, or the Church for that matter, says the liturgy should be. But so many churches say their lifeteen masses are standing room only. I know that Bishop Dooher of Boston was given the position because of his success leading such a program and the amount of vocations the program drew. His Excellency seems to prefer street clothes too.

Could it be that liberal programs and priests are bringing about vocations, and that there’s something lacking in a Church that stands in the way of youth ministers and the charismatic renewal? Is it really the profane entertainment Masses that bring men to the priesthood?

Vocations have been dropping.

LifeTeen started in my diocese. I went through it. It was created by a priest here who was later relieved of his duties due to some innappropriate behavior involving minors. He has since left the priesthood and founded a new denomination and has taken many Catholics with him.

I left LifeTeen just as ignorant about my religion as I went in. My experience is that it was, above all other things, embarassing and patronizing. Most were there because their parents made them go. Others were there to learn and instead we got to do skits and focus on feel-goodery.

There was too much “what do you think Jesus means here?” and zero dogma. I didn’t know what a dogma was until years after my confirmation. (shortly after I found out that the pope is the successor of St. Peter.) But I sure know how to say something nice about the person on my left, and can craft wonders with uncooked macaroni.

Oh, and not to mention fluency in protestant prayers. You know, the ones that start with, “Lord, we just wanna…”

The most embarassing thing about it is what Tom Booth thinks is “hip” music. It’s basically folk retreads with electric guitars instead of acoustics. None of my peers listened to that stuff. But that’s what happens when you have aging hippies try to think like the current youth.

There’s a word that us kids used to say that would sum the whole thing up: Lame.

It’s embarassing because watching the Church try to act hip and young and “appeal to today’s youth” is like watching a 90yo woman with a new facelift trying to act like a teenager. It’s embarassing for all involved. And embarassment in front of your peers is what kids hate and fear most.

Liturgists should stop trying to make the mass conform to what they think the kids would like, and just let the mass do what it does best: be Catholic. Don’t patronize us (young and old). Let the dignified old lady remain dignified. Don’t try to tun her into something she’s not.

Just because LifeTeen is uber popular with the parish liturgist, does not mean it’s popular with the kids.

Going through LifeTeen, only to be confirmed in a mass-confirmation ceremony at the local baseball stadium ('cause THAT’s solemn…), left a rather “glad that’s finally over” taste in my mouth. I became disinterested in Church after that. (How can you be intersted in something you know nothing about?) By the grace of God I found enough interest to teach myself the Catholic education that I was cheated out of.

If you love your kids and want them to love the Church, avoid LifeTeen like the plague.

 

[Unitas]

Being 71 (this coming Friday), with six children, sixteen grandchildren, and decades as an employer in the business world, yes, I have a good bit of experience with young people and their rebellious tendencies.

LifeTeen is an opportunity to redirect some of that rebellion into a deeper faith for many of them.

Of course there is always the alternative. It gives me great spiritual sadness, to watch young people exercise their rebellion through religion, simply for the sake of rebellion.

What better way to rebel against “the establishement”, than to thumb your nose at the post-conciliar Church of your parents (and some grandparents)?

But hey, why stop there? Why not go all-out, and become sympathizers of the SSPX while you’re at it?

Having read thousands of posts here, there is a clear trend. Precious few young people posting here are embracing traditional Catholicism out of a sense of spiritual reverence and humility.

Sadly, the bulk of the pro-traditional posts from the younger crowd are laced with pride, anger, and rebellion. “We’ll show YOU…we’re right and you old folks are WRONG…”

If only we could all go back to our twenties…back when we knew everything.

Ah I see, tradition is actually rebellion, and modernism is more ‘adult’ conformity. Black is white and white is black, too. Ever read 1984?

Hint: the Age of Aquarius is dead.

With age does not always come wisdom.

 

[ethelzguy]

But the good of the above quote is that like 2 sparrows in a hurricane you two are a team and that is important. That is how my wife and I are too.

Oh, the DW isn’t much interested, other than to peek over my shoulder now and then…mostly her response was because of MrS frequent references to her.

 

[ethelzguy]

Ah I see, tradition is actually rebellion, and modernism is more ‘adult’ conformity. Black is white and white is black, too. Ever read 1984?

Hint: the Age of Aquarius is dead.

With age does not always come wisdom.

The “tradtional” slant of today reminds me none whatsoever of tradition of years gone by.

The bulk of the pro-traditional posts I read here are chest-beating, holier-than-thou, “I’m right and the Church is wrong” propaganda.

So, yes, I see rebellion far moreso than humility from said crowd.

 

[VociMike]

The most embarassing thing about it is what Tom Booth thinks is “hip” music. It’s basically folk retreads with electric guitars instead of acoustics. None of my peers listened to that stuff. But that’s what happens when you have aging hippies try to think like the current youth.

There’s a word that us kids used to say that would sum the whole thing up: Lame.

It’s embarassing because watching the Church try to act hip and young and “appeal to today’s youth” is like watching a 90yo woman with a new facelift trying to act like a teenager. It’s embarassing for all involved. And embarassment in front of your peers is what kids hate and fear most.

I had to look up who Tom Booth is - got it.

You make a very good point here. Any parish or organization that tries to keep up with the spirit of the teen culture is guaranteeing that it will always be a day late and a dollar short. Otherwise known as “lame”.

By the time a particular sound filters down through the composers and the publishers and the liturgical music conferences and the parish music directors, it is last month’s milk. Nothing sounds older than the music of two, three, five, ten, twenty years ago. It is not timeless, it is just passed by.

On top of that, when a parish tries to copy the current sound they are also inviting a comparison to the technical qualities of the professional recordings of that sound. How many church bands sound as good as a professional recording? Heck, even the professional bands don’t usually sound as good as their own recordings.

So, a day late and a dollar short. Playing music that is too old to be current, and too new to be timeless. And playing it at a level much lower than people hear on the radio or MTV or their music players. It is a surefire recipe for, as you say, lameness.

And all this when the Church posesses a heritage of sacred music which is “a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than any other art”. It’s like taking the world’s best baseball team and having them decide that they’re going to ignore baseball and instead compete against the world’s best football teams. What are the chances of them succeeding?

 

[MrS]

Oh, the DW isn’t much interested, other than to peek over my shoulder now and then…mostly her response was because of MrS frequent references to her.

Good morning Ethel… :coffeeread: hope all is well… or at least as well as could be expected.

 

[LRThunder]

The “tradtional” slant of today reminds me none whatsoever of tradition of years gone by.

The bulk of the pro-traditional posts I read here are chest-beating, holier-than-thou, “I’m right and the Church is wrong” propaganda.

So, yes, I see rebellion far moreso than humility from said crowd.

Or maybe there’s rebellious elements in both “crowds.”

 

[ethelzguy]

What is continuously overlooked (convieniently) is that every so-called “traditional” hymn was once “new”.

A spin through a hymnal this past weekend was a bit surprising. Many of the hymns that are considered stalwarts of the Church aren’t much over a hundred years old…