What do traditionalists think of the Piano?

[leonhardprintz]

Rather violent language. Hope you don’t feel the same way about the piano.

Yes, and all the notesheets burned along with it. The music director’s body should be able to supply the fuel for the bonfire.

Yeah we do, though as time went by that particular mass became more and more experimental, with weird fellowships during the middle of the mass, and even a movie projector being put up at some point - After the liturgy of the word, so we could watch some sort of polish short film, before the eucharist… Not kidding.

And I might just be associating guitars with a heinously liberal mass gone off the rails.

But I just don’t like the sound of guitars at mass. The melodies are always so corny and remind me of Charismatic Christians and their hyperemotional approach to Christianity.

 

[LisaB]

with weird fellowships during the middle of the mass, and even a movie projector being put up at some point - After the liturgy of the word, so we could watch some sort of polish short film, before the eucharist… Not kidding.

 

[lilypadrees]

The human voice is definitely an instrument. Singer Kate Bush, a devout Catholic who also plays the pipe organ, is one who uses the full capabilities of her voice in her music.

Also, if the human voice isn’t an instrument, why do singers refer to it as their “pipes”?

 

[Peeps]

Agreed,

When you think about, many of the instruments, if not all, are designed based on the human voice apparatus. E.g., the woodwinds and horns mimic our nose, mouth (resonating chamber), sinuses, voice box, etc–our “breathing tube.”

 

[Peeps]

I’m really befuddled and definitely dismayed that people in this thread dislike 4-part music (SATB).

So I guess my family should knock it off whenever the daughters come home, and we sing the Mass hymns in four parts (Daddy bass, Mama tenor, Daughter #1 Alto, Daughter #2 Soprano). I always thought people were turning around because they liked hearing us. But perhaps they think we sound inappropriate for the Mass.

Lovely way to start my day–hearing that my family is offensive to traditionalists I think I’ll go eat a large bowl of ice cream and finish it off with 2 or 3 sugary sodas and a handful of Christmas candy.

Seriously–I miss Protestant 4-part hymn-singing sooooooooo much. Even in Protestant churches, though, people have not had enough musical education in school or at home to be able to sing the four parts–so sad, at least in my opinion.

Wait…please tell me that Catholics are NOT the ones responsible for eliminating music, including reading music and harmonizing, from the public schools!

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I am so reminded of the old pianolas at the moment. They had such wonderful Advent and Christmas music to be used for singalong

 

[DaveBj]

Seriously–I miss Protestant 4-part hymn-singing sooooooooo much. Even in Protestant churches, though, people have not had enough musical education in school or at home to be able to sing the four parts–so sad, at least in my opinion.

With you all the way, Peeps!

D

 

[Prometheum_x]

Talk to a piano tuner about inharmonicity that all pianos have but is not present in pipe organs. That makes impossible to tune a piano and and organ so that they are perfectly in tune with each other. This does not stop people from trying to play them together, but they really shouldn’t

Organs themselves are only perfectly in tune with themselves for about 5 minutes after a full tuning . After that it’s all relative.

When organ and piano play simultaneously, the organist and the pianist have to play as a keyboard ensemble, considering how they complement each other, rather than trying to both “lead” or duplicate what the other is doing.

 

[JButky]

But I just don’t like the sound of guitars at mass. The melodies are always so corny

I think you probably have a problem with the melody more than the sound of a guitar. A corny melody even on organ would be just as bad.

Again, this is style and content of how the instrument is applied rather than the instrument itself.

 

[Peeps]

And I always try hard to keep in mind that most church musicians are not professionals, they are volunteers–people who learned to play when they were kids, and kept playing into their adult years, and have nervously said, “Yes” to God when He asked them, through someone in the Church (a priest or perhaps the liturgy director), to please give their musical talent to Him and His People by playing for Mass.

If God didn’t want pianists, guitarists, etc. playing in Mass, surely HE would stop asking them to play!

 

[leonhardprintz]

I think you probably have a problem with the melody more than the sound of a guitar. A corny melody even on organ would be just as bad.

I’ll grant you that my ears might have been soured on that music, or the time the same music group thought big drums during mass would be a good idea.

What are your favorite examples of reverant and solemn guitar music.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Encyclicals are not automatically binding doctrine.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Brendan_64:

The trouble with getting too het up about types of instruments is that ultimately they are not what really matters. This isn’t an issue of morality and while we each may have our personal preferences what mattets is that the music is fitting and reverent.

I’d go even further and argue that “fitting” and “reverent” are subjective where music is concerned.

My feelings on this have always been “conservative” and high-church. So I’ve preferred traditional music, organs, a-cappella, etc, to the point of wanting the Church to just return to all the old practices.

Even then, I didn’t know that female voices in the choir was a “novelty,” as the first “traditional” choir I heard in Mass was 50% female, and it was a fine choir singing the best of liturgical music.

But my views have changed.

A few years ago I made facebook friends with a Nigerian priest. He runs a seminary and other Church activities in Nigeria. One Christmas he shared a video of his seminarians singing a Christmas “song”. It had congo drums, a swirling organ sound, and a catchy beat. After some time I realised they were singing “Thine be the Glory” in their own language. The melody was the original, but they had played it the way they would if they’d been given any melody and set out to accompany it with their own instruments and musical skills (which were quite high)

It was beautiful, reverent and from the heart. I’d never try to impose western music on them,

Since then, I’ve been in favour of cultural adaptation of liturgical music.

Especially as we are going to need these young men, and others from the third world, to minister to our dwindling parishes.

ps. I just wish I could share that inspiring video of the Nigerian seminarians singing Thine be the Glory!, but unfortunately it was in a private fb group. He does this for the safety of his seminarians.

 

[PeterT]

It’s not just the instrument, but also finding a musician who can play the instrument. Finding someone who can actually play a pipe organ well can be difficult-to-impossible, depending on the size of the community and the general location. Finding someone who can play a piano is usually a much easier proposition.

I agree.

I often find it discouraging how fussy some people are when it comes to the instruments that are used at a Mass. As long as the instrument is played well, I’m personally okay with an organ, piano or even an acoustic guitar being the lead instrument at a Mass as long as the instrument is well played. And for me, that’s the most important criteria: that whatever instrument is used, that it’s played well. I much rather have music at a Mass be played by an expert classical guitarist than a mediocre organist.

A well-played pipe organ is indeed very inspiring and helps lift the Mass to a higher level, but a poorly played pipe organ, on the other hand, can sound dreadful and really mar the music being sung at the Mass.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have never learned to play an organ, so I can’t say whether or to what degree it’s more difficult than a piano. But I’ll say that for some hymns, organ is nigh onto indispensable, especially if the organist is really good at it.

But for some hymns I actually do like the piano. But not for most hymns. If a hymn is an “old time religion” kind of hymn; one I first heard on country radio when I was five, I can even prefer the piano. But you can almost tell by listening which hymns were intended for piano and which for organ.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

I have never learned to play an organ, so I can’t say whether or to what degree it’s more difficult than a piano. But I’ll say that for some hymns, organ is nigh onto indispensable, especially if the organist is really good at it.

But for some hymns I actually do like the piano. But not for most hymns. If a hymn is an “old time religion” kind of hymn; one I first heard on country radio when I was five, I can even prefer the piano. But you can almost tell by listening which hymns were intended for piano and which for organ.

Gimme that old time religion! Gimme that old time religion! But not during Mass.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Gimme that old time religion! Gimme that old time religion! But not during Mass.

I know most Catholics don’t like what can go on at Mass here in the hills, and that’s okay. But I’ll add that one of my favorite musicians at Mass is a converted daughter of a Baptist preacher who plays the hammered dulcimer. She’s really good at it, and I like it. Some people would go apoplectic, but I particularly like it when she plays “Just As I Am”. Yeah, I know, some consider it heretical too.

Here is a version of it, though the Baptist preacher’s daughter plays it twice as fast and using about three times as many notes. It can bring tears to my eyes. (Yeah, I know, I’m a hillbilly)

 

[Secant]

I am the music director at my parish. I prefer the piano, because I am a pianist, and I am horrible at the organ. Our traditionalists scream bloody murder every time I play the piano, but anyone with any musical sense cries whenever I get on the blasted organ. The other two accompanists at the parish are also pianists, and their organ playing ranges from too horrible to contemplate to mediocre. They always play the organ anyway. Our acoustics are designed so that the piano does not overwhelm the singers (by chance as we just put it in two months ago), but that the organ is too quiet in the front pews and totally overwhelms the choir loft. Singing with it is nearly impossible. As for not allowing mixed choirs, or men and women to stand together, I guess my other main singer (and husband) cannot sing, as the other four of us musicians for the whole parish are women and there really is no place for him, but beside us. My singers (all two of them aside from myself) find the organ very hard to sing with, as it has almost no volume control and does not provide the necessary percussive elements to help them find the tempo. Professionals might do better, but as well are just the five people in the parish who are willing to give up hours of our private time for free each week, we are what we get. Honestly, unless you have a parish that can afford real talent instead of those of us who said yes to the call of God because we felt that it was stewardship we could provide, it shouldn’t matter. The piano has many advantages that the organ does not, as percussion, as well as a greater number of folks who can play it at a moderate level. The organ, to be played well, is much harder than the piano, since it requires the ability to play with your feet, switch stops, work volume pedals, and more.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One more, then I’ll quit. Here is a better hammered dulcimer player. Now, you can’t tell me that isn’t beautiful, even in church.

 

[abucs]

I’m really befuddled and definitely dismayed that people in this thread dislike 4-part music (SATB).

So I guess my family should knock it off whenever the daughters come home, and we sing the Mass hymns in four parts (Daddy bass, Mama tenor, Daughter #1 Alto, Daughter #2 Soprano). I always thought people were turning around because they liked hearing us. But perhaps they think we sound inappropriate for the Mass.

Lovely way to start my day–hearing that my family is offensive to traditionalists I think I’ll go eat a large bowl of ice cream and finish it off with 2 or 3 sugary sodas and a handful of Christmas candy.

Seriously–I miss Protestant 4-part hymn-singing sooooooooo much. Even in Protestant churches, though, people have not had enough musical education in school or at home to be able to sing the four parts–so sad, at least in my opinion.

Wait…please tell me that Catholics are NOT the ones responsible for eliminating music, including reading music and harmonizing, from the public schools!

I’ll file this under ‘not really sure what you are talking about but hope you are feeling better now’.

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