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e-catholic
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Techno2000
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So that means you are rolling your eyes Sarcasticlly?
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Mystic_of_God
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Look at the guy’s handle, dude.
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Cathdefender
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Techno, this truly is a miracle from God, I have the book about this. To not believe this is going to be real hard, but you might want to sit this one out…
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HashemEchad
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I’m familiar with Lanciano. Interestingly, I learned of it via a Catholic who was trying to convert me to his religion. I have to say what I told him: just reading about Lanciano turned my stomach…and I don’t think God works in a way that makes people sick to their stomach. I get a similar sick feeling when I read about bodies that do not corrupt, etc. It just seems like an overobsession with blood and death.
In Judaism, we know that miracles in and of themselves do not mean anything. When Moses went before Pharoah, he threw down his staff and it turned into a snake.
Pharoah got his magicians to do the same exact thing, and for a while it seemed as if what Moses did didn’t mean anything…and then Moses serpent killed and ate the one from the Pharoah’s magicians.
Our rabbis teach us that this is to show that Jews must never rely on miracles ALONE as evidence of God or truth…because false religions can do the same kinds of miracles. even totally polytheistic religions have similar miracles.
And in Deuteronomy 13, the Jewish people were warned that even if a prophet or dreamer of dreams arose, and did signs and wonders that came to pass, we were not to follow him if he also told us to stop keeping Torah, or switch to another religious belief system.
(BTW One reason why I know this portion of the Torah so well was because it was my son’s Torah portion for his Bar Mitzvah, and I helped him study for it!)
In Judaism, we know that miracles in and of themselves do not mean anything. When Moses went before Pharoah, he threw down his staff and it turned into a snake.
Pharoah got his magicians to do the same exact thing, and for a while it seemed as if what Moses did didn’t mean anything…and then Moses serpent killed and ate the one from the Pharoah’s magicians.
Our rabbis teach us that this is to show that Jews must never rely on miracles ALONE as evidence of God or truth…because false religions can do the same kinds of miracles. even totally polytheistic religions have similar miracles.
And in Deuteronomy 13, the Jewish people were warned that even if a prophet or dreamer of dreams arose, and did signs and wonders that came to pass, we were not to follow him if he also told us to stop keeping Torah, or switch to another religious belief system.
(BTW One reason why I know this portion of the Torah so well was because it was my son’s Torah portion for his Bar Mitzvah, and I helped him study for it!)
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Hisalone
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Have you seen the Buddhist miracles?
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Cathdefender
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Now, why would a miracle like that turn your stomach? Is it because it is from Jesus Christ whom you do not believe?
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Cathdefender
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e-catholic
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Sorry, I went to bed after my last post. No I was not being sarcastic ( at least not to you) I was just noticing that it had been 3 hours with no N-C takers on that, and I wanted to bump it up also.
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HashemEchad
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Funny you ask that; I was going to post one then figured it wasn’t worth it.
I was watching a documentary two days ago, about the current Dalai Lama, and how they found him.
Now, in Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism, they believe that the Dalai Lama is reincarnated again and again, so they go on a search for his newest incarnation.
They found him as a little boy, and miraculously, when presented with artifacts that had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama as well as meaningless ones, he picked out only the ones that had belonged to the previous Dalai Lama.
They had put lots of artifacts in front of him, but this teeny 3 (?) yr old boy knew just which ones to choose.
At first I was amazed, but then remembered what Judaism teaches, that even pagan religions can have miracles, but standing alone, they don’t mean anything.
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HashemEchad
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Because my religion (and mostly all non-Catholic religions) do not make a religion out of worshipping blood, flesh and dead bodies. I remember reading a book about various religious miracles, and Lanciano was in there…I had to put the book down because, frankly, it was making me sick.
If you can’t see what is gross about the idea that a wafer can turn into real skin that bleeds, then I can’t help you. I don’t care what religion it is, its just sickening. But I can see how, if a person was raised Catholic, they wouldn’t see what’s creepy about it.
And also, this belief (that the wafer and wine turn into the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus) is the number one thing that makes me know that the Catholic religion is not the truth.
Because Catholicism came out of Judaism, right? And Judaism has always taught in the Torah that Jews are to eat NO manner of blood. This is why when we eat kosher meat, the blood has to be all removed.
Since God refuses to let us ingest any manner of blood because it was given to us to make an atonement for sin, why would he want us to drink his son’s blood? Even in Biblical times when we were still sacrificing animals as one of the ways to atone for sin, we never used the blood: that had to be poured out.
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AgnosTheist
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i think its propaganda.
even if its made of real human flesh, that doesnt negate the probability that 500 years ago some fundamentalist maniacs carved out the heart from a dead person, turned it into leather and presented it as the miraculous host.
maybe someone should tell mythbusters if they can reproduce that leather host. if an attempt was made and it failed, only then its logical to conclude that it was really a miracle.
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joeybaggz
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Kind of like, to those who believe, no explanation is necessary; to those who don’t, none is possible?
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AgnosTheist
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both are still idiots. many of us belong in the gray area. this is the age of the mythbusters.
prove it and we’ll believe it.
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HashemEchad
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No, its just that when someone grows up with an idea or concept that is outlandish to most other people, the people who belong to the in-group don’t see it the same way.
Most Jews see nothing wrong with the practice of circumcision; this is because we are used to it. But in other cultures, its seen as barbaric. That’s a good analogy, I’d say.
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Techno2000
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I believe in this Miracle 100%.
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AgnosTheist
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^ ofcourse you do.
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Koopa
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Dictatorship of Rationalism…
Did you read about it? The body and blood have been preserved for 1300 years. Scientific tests have found no preservative chemicals. The blood type AB matches that of the Shroud of Turin. When you weigh one pellet of blood, it weighs the same as two pellets of blood… and three… and four and five. Sorry, but science can’t do that; it can only prove it happened.
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estesbob
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24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”both are still idiots. many of us belong in the gray area. this is the age of the mythbusters.
prove it and we’ll believe it.
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
The more things change the more things stay the same. I suspect if you had seen Jesus wallking on water you would have exclaimed"this guy calls himself the son of God and he cant even swim!?"
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