What do you admire about islam/muslims?

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algebra said:
Nothing wrong with the Quran per se.

I have read it.

Its no better or worse than the Bible when it comes to violence.

Its the interpretation of the Quran thats a problem.

That is why I am choosing catholicism amongst all the Christianities.

Only the RC/Orthodox Churches seem to get interpretation of the Bible right.
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From what I read of the Koran, it is contrary to the message of Christ.
 
josie_L said:
From what I read of the Koran, it is contrary to the message of Christ.
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Not really.

I would be hard pressed to find portions of the Quran that are contrary to the message of Christ.

I am not talking about the portions that deny the death of Christ.

But the broader message of the quran is an exhortation to believers to live a just and merciful life.

This is not contrary to the way the Christ led His life.
 
I understand the sentiments of what you are saying Jharek.

However, Islam is not anything like the Catholic Church, or “Australians”. It is, even though it’s been so for 1400 years, and our ancesters certainly had the spine to call a spade a spade, at the current time outside of our civilisational experience to even qualify the threat in our language.

BUT - islam is a complete, absolute civilisational code of life, which include it’s own civil laws, or what we consider to be Caesers laws (as well as complete laws for absolutely everything), with a mandate of war and enslavement of the entire world until the world submits, or knows it is subjugated and humiliated, to allah.

I have maintained that it’s not ALL muslims - though not repeatedly as I’m sick and tired of it, it’s always ignored. It is the geo-political ideology of Islam I am against, I hate, I will shout the truth about.

What I also realise, but due to the limitations of this arena I don’t go into, it is the muslims themselves who also suffer in this system. Once the system has control EVERYONE suffers, other than those with the power. Just like communism, Hitler’s National Socialism etc.

I do not believe the religion of islam can be separated from the geo-political. I know there are some trying. I can’t see how it will be done. Funny, though, they often end up having to hide or go silent.

However, the muslims on here DID achieve ONE of their aims. They got us bickering amongst ourselves. I ask that you defend in your manner, and allow us to defend in ours - there are many paths that this fight will take, and all are legitimate and are part of the defence. I do not support bigotry, however, while there are some, most of us in this argument are not. And the bigots usually having nothing to support their stance - they just rant.

Not sure how to put this without it sounding personal, which it isn’t, but here goes. There are also a lot of useful idiots on here, and elsewhere, either for their own ideological reasons, or wilful ignorance. Should I reply to them simply and call them useful idiots? (I’m assuming you know the origin of that term).

And yes, (to anyone who’s thinking of jumping) I said “fight” - get over it. Read my signature.

I proudly announce I am part of the global anti-jihad movement, which is made up of many people of all nationalities, religions, and civil positions. Wherever I see the adherents of the geo-political ideology of Islam in da’wa, practicising taqiya, for the advancement of this ideology, it is my aim to counter their attempts.

I recommend you all subscribe to MEMRI TV to see the despicable and hateful propaganda that is being spewed from the ME media. You can RSS as well.

And please take a look at this gem, where a “scholar” from Al Azhar threatens the Vatican (oh, and the Jews and Americans of course).
 
algebra said:
Not really.

I would be hard pressed to find portions of the Quran that are contrary to the message of Christ.

I am not talking about the portions that deny the death of Christ.

But the broader message of the quran is an exhortation to believers to live a just and merciful life.

This is not contrary to the way the Christ led His life.
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Oh, I take it you’re a non-Arabic speaker, reading the qur’an in Arabic
😃
 
chrisse said:
I have maintained that it’s not ALL muslims - though not repeatedly as I’m sick and tired of it, it’s always ignored. It is the geo-political ideology of Islam I am against, I hate, I will shout the truth about.
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There is no unified geo-political ideology of islam. Well there hasnt been one since the death of the last rightly guided caliph; Ali.

The ideology at that time was certainly not geo-political world domination.

However there is no denying that islam was expansionist.

So the conquered were allowed to practice their own religion, but were given the choice to convert to islam.

The - kill all those who refuse to submit thing, just didnt happen.
 
algebra said:
Not really.

I would be hard pressed to find portions of the Quran that are contrary to the message of Christ.

I am not talking about the portions that deny the death of Christ.

But the broader message of the quran is an exhortation to believers to live a just and merciful life.

This is not contrary to the way the Christ led His life.
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I have come to understand that certain surahs have been abrogated due to later surahs that contradict the earlier ones. Is this incorrect?
 
Jizya was a substitute for zakat, which unlike tithing is forced upon the muslim.
 
LDNCatholic said:
And apparently forced upon the dhimmi too no?
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Correct.

We do live in a world where we are obligated to pay taxes.

I am not sure why we see our taxes (which we hate) any differently from the taxes back then.

A state has to tax to perform its functions (unless it is sitting on trillions of barrels of oil)
 
algebra said:
Correct.

We do live in a world where we are obligated to pay taxes.

I am not sure why we see our taxes (which we hate) any differently from the taxes back then.

A state has to tax to perform its functions (unless it is sitting on trillions of barrels of oil)
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My problem with the jizya is the humiliation factor attached to it.
Quran 9:29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
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This is not a regular “tax”.
 
algebra said:
Correct.

We do live in a world where we are obligated to pay taxes.

I am not sure why we see our taxes (which we hate) any differently from the taxes back then.

A state has to tax to perform its functions (unless it is sitting on trillions of barrels of oil)
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The Jizya tax you speak of, by the way, was too much to bear for the average Christian to pay, many had to convert to avoid paying it. I would call that a form of persecution.
 
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