What do you admire about islam/muslims?

[josie_L]

I believe something similar happened in Iraq, when American evangelical soldiers were confronted with the Chaldeans. I don’t think they knew how ancient their christianity was. And that there wasn’t much to teach them.

 

[Rleng616]

Nothing. they worship a god that is deceptive and wants his own creatures dead, or subjugated to sharia laws - the worst human rights disasters of all times.

They worship an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Vengeful Warlord.

And they distort his deeds into an aura of goodness/holiness.

They have no concept of ‘human beings’ - only believers/unbelievers and they also divide our world into the realm of war (dar al harb) and the realm of islam (dar al islam) which basically means they are at war with us.

Their koran is full of violence and commands to commit violence against the unbelievers and that includes torture, enslavement and killing.

Slavery is still in the islamic world, as is abuse against women.

The single minded denial of all of this is just mind boggling and people take their FACADE of peacefulness as something good. While they support such terrorists as hamas who are currently lobbing bombs into Israel again - and so the ‘peaceful’ ones are all happy and not making a peep out of that.

Their redefinitions of words, and also sin, gives them the excuse to commit all these atrocities, including lying about what islam is all about and what it means for us - death, conversion or subjugation.

This also is what I believe.

I know it is harsh. I look for reasons not to believe this. I cannot find any.

Bob

 

[josie_L]

Absolutely.

I was wondering about why God would allow the schism of the Latin Church.

And I realised it was because God was protecting His church when he allowed it to happen.

It was necessary for the well being of Christianity that the reformation take place.

Thank God for the protestants.

You have to remember that before the reformation, there was already a movement within the Church to reform abuses. For example, Thomas More, I believe was working towards changing the negative he saw in the Church (the Christian Humanist movement), as well as St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and St. Catherine of Genoa . . etc. I am not sure I would thank the Protestants of that time, I however, have nothing against them now (except the anti-catholic ones).

 

[Agabriel]

I just got this email from MEF (Middle East Forum) newsletter. And it has an article in it how Churchill worked for the Israeli homeland. It goes into how Britain was historically very anti-semitic.

So how did this relatively anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist nation come to be the one that, while not delivering the Jewish state, helped the Zionists at key moments and acquiesced to the declaration of Jewish statehood in 1948? The answer comes in this book, a detailed account of Winston Churchill and his three-decade long struggle to preserve Britain’s promise as set forth in the Balfour Declaration.

Makovsky skillfully shows that only one man, Churchill—a true admirer of Disraeli and his mantra that “the Lord dealt with the nations as the nations dealt with the Jews”—seemingly kept the Zionist dream alive by vigorously and creatively pushing back against rampant anti-Zionism in the British government and among the public. As anti-Zionist calls deepened in Britain, he constantly reinforced his pro-Zionist political message to keep domestic anti-Zionist adversaries at bay. When the infamous MacDonald White Paper of 1939 looked as if it would crush Zionist hopes, Churchill engaged Roosevelt and the United States on the Zionists’ behalf, leveraging a relationship Britain needed more than ever at that time. While Roosevelt proved genuinely uninterested in Zionism and appeared ready to undercut it for political concerns, Churchill’s engagement allowed Truman to assume the role of main Western advocate for Zionism when Churchill fell from power after the war.

And then, this article about a book that goes into the politics behind the current violence against Israel which started 17 years AFTER Israel was created and started with the Arab summit in 1964. (it seems that the hudna was way over due to be broken!)

And MEF doesn’t quit because it has another book about ‘History Upside Down
The Roots of Palestinian Fascism and the Myth of Israeli Aggression’

To recognize genuine condemnation of Israel, Natan Sharansky, former Soviet dissident and Israeli politician, suggests a test of what he calls the “Three Ds”: demonization (such as comparisons of Israelis to Nazis and of Palestinian refugee camps to Auschwitz), double standards (in which Jews and Israelis are held to different and often impossible standards in comparison to other peoples and nations), and delegitimization (which seeks to deny the existence of a Jewish people, Judaism, or the State of Israel). Today, we increasingly see a coordinated campaign to deny the legitimacy of the Jewish state—its right to exist, its Jewish character, and its right to self-defense.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I am simply pointing out that if zionists were as numerous as jihadists, you would have a bigger problem.

Do zionist commit mass murder with regular frequency to make a point or strive to impart an oppresive religious & civil code on all people they can dominate?

You do not trust muslims, because you are ignorant.

Ignorance comes in many forms. What is not to trust? For a devout Moslem, I trust they take their scripture and founders example seriously just as I would trust a devout Catholic to do the same.

When I hear a Catholic public official like Nancy Pelosi say abortion is inconclusive with respect to Doctrine in order for her to materially support it, or a Christian like Eric Rudolph who bombed abortion clinics to stop it; I can say with justification they are wrong with respect to their claimed faith in saying/doing what they do.

Islam can justify killing for disbelief in it, but Christianity can’t.
Catholicism teaches the equality and dignity of every human being when Islam teaches women are less equal and non-believers worth less.
A Catholic could not justify sex with a child but Islam can.
Mohammed permitted lying and assassinations, Christ didn’t.
Mohammed justified robbing others for profit, Christ said to offer your coat when sued for your shirt.
Warring for allah or jihad is encouraged until the Last Day.

Despite the fact people of all belief systems do some/all of those things in reality and just as many do not, does not diminish the fact that only one belief system can and does justify it.

Islam is conditional while Christianity isn’t. It did not originate or spread in any comparable way to Catholicism which is important. Islam exported arabisms/Mohammedisms for liturgy to change the culture of those they dominated like the Egyptians, Persians, Pakistanis and Malaysia.

What do you trust about Islam that is not conditional to belief in it?

 

[ralphinal]

I dont know about that, I find judaism to be even more tedious than islam.

But I have my own ideas on why that judaism is the way it is.

I may be on the other side on this. I see where you are coming from, but it seems like there is more codificaiton in Islam. Judaism seems to have more legalism applied to it by its adherants. If you take out to rules for temple sacrafice, the Jewish code shortens greatly. How it is applied is another story.

 

[dzheremi]

This is precisely the problem, in my view. I remember some months ago I asked Muslim Woman if, in all of her hurrying to post the same Islamic diatribes of her beloved Dr. Naik, she might take a few minutes out of her day to at least try to understand Christianity as she so often emplores us to come to an understanding of Islam. I don’t want to put words into her mouth/posts, but if I remember correctly her answer was something like “Christianity is too hard to understand. Too illogical. Who can understand it?”

So the only thing I can think of is that Islam, as an ideology, does not actually care about the points you have made above and I have tried to make over and over. That is why they will not address them in an honest way (if they recognize hearing them at all, that is). It is, ultimately, not about dialogue or shared values or a common source/inspiration or anything like that. All that Islam really wants from us is that we assent to its supremacy and thereby the supremacy of those who practice it, in all aspects of life. We are allowed nothing of our own, or if we are it is to be at the mercy of the ummah, which is not inherently peaceful or understanding towards us or our religion. There is no possible pretense of equality in such a relationship. While it would be unfair to say that Islam exists to destroy us, it would be likewise naive to say that it exists for the benefit of all mankind, as others have suggested in this very thread. Islam is of no benefit to a Christian. We were doing just fine for hundreds of years before there was ever such a thing as Islam.

THAT is what Muslims do not understand and will not understand. They think that because they can say “there is no compulsion in religion” that we should have no complaints about their absolute unwillingness to recognize the difference between civil law and religious law, which is the very division that allows them the freedom to worship as they wish. Near as I can tell, what is good for the Muslim is good for the “People of the Book”, or so a possible paraphrase could go. And if we don’t agree? Well, we just don’t “understand” Islam well enough. We need to be re-educated by the likes of Dr. Naik.

But will they ever even entertain the idea that they, in fact, could benefit from understanding Christianity? No. They don’t want to. They will never want to. Those that do will likely leave Islam (not necessarily for Christianity, but at least to be out of Islam). Maybe those who persist in saying “Christianity is too hard to understand so we won’t bother” know that, somewhere deep down in their hearts. I don’t know. But I do know that if you’re waiting for the majority of Muslims, even the peaceful ones, to listen to our concerns and take them to heart, well…you might as well be waiting for Muhammad to multiply the loaves of bread and the nets of fish, my friend. It isn’t going to happen. It seems to me that we are not worthy of any true consideration as a distinct religious community, in the majority of Muslims’ minds.

 

[Agabriel]

Thanks dzheremi, that was a great post.

 

[Booklover]

Can someone have the hatred in the Quran beaten into their skulls and be a good person? Not a day passes that we don’t hear of some new atrocity committed by Muslims and it’s all due to Islamic teachings!

Ex-Muslim Arab American Wafa Sultan:

When I examined the Koran, the hadith, and the Islamic books under a microscope, I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible – impossible! – for any human being to read the biography of Muhammad and believe in it, and yet emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.

The Muslim is an irrational creature ruled by instincts. Those teachings have deprived him of his mind, incited his emotions, and reduced him to the level of an inferior creature that cannot control himself or react to events rationally.

Enjoy your la-la-land!

Vickie

 

[bengland]

I haven’t read the entire thread, but it asks for opinion, so there’s no need.

What I admire?

I admire that many see God as being more important than wealth or gain. That the women care enough to actually cover their heads despite the occasions of scorn and ridicule, those that do want to. I admire that some turn to prayer, not out of obligation, but because they love God.

What I don’t admire?

Every Islamic society on earth. That people who don’t wish to participate in those various obligations are ostracized, or even killed in some cases. The fear that drives the expansion of the Ummah and the fact that it is often done with gross distortions of Christianity. The separation between Muslim and Kafir. Even today you see: “Assalamu alaikum to the Muslims and greetings to non-Muslims” because they cannot wish peace to a non-Muslim. You can never truly be friends with a devout Muslim unless you’re a Muslim because you’re either Muslim or non-Muslim, but you can choose to be a friend to them regardless of this. That so much of Christianity is contradicted by Islam. The abundant and not occasional violence that exists wherever Islam is significantly mixed with another culture. That many are devout out of fear and not love and that that devotion often expresses itself in the form of violence.

Other observations?

The Muslims that have impressed me the most have been the converts from Christianity, and it’s quite possible that it’s because they’re Christians who are trying to be Muslims.

The Muslims I know have been decent, but the same complaints about Christians who lie, cheat, attack others violently or disregard their religion while participating in Church only on Sundays hold true within Islam. I have worked for Muslims that I believe were unethical in terms of how they ran their business. Others sold pork sausages, while at the same time the Target in Minneapolis was being troubled by Somali Muslims to save the Somali clerks from having to ring up bacon on the cash register. Many sell beer in their stores. So some are devout and love God dearly, others indifferent, and others devout and ready to harass or even kill you to prove it.