What do you all think of Joyce Meyer?

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Which Catholics do non-Catholics see as brothers and sisters in Christ? The ones that try to practice all the teachings of the Catholic Church or the ones that only practice the teachings that are in agreement with Protestant teachings and reject the rest? What must a Catholic believe for a non-Catholic Christian to acknowledge that the Catholic is a Christian?

That’s a very valid question - unfortunately you’ll have to ask Hank Hanegraaff, or read more on what he has to say about that. I don’t want to speak for him with the limited knowledge I have on that regard. I only know that he’s openly said that he considers some Catholics to be Christians and that he simply disagrees with many teachings of the Catholic Church (in the same way I disagree with many teachings of the Charismatic churches, yet still consider Charismatic Christians, or at least the very majority of them, to be brothers and sisters in Christ).

Then, he has changed his position. It would be *impossible *for me to point you to the radio broadcast in which he made these claims - *15 years ago *- while I was driving home from work. *If *Hank has shifted his position - it was by the work of the Holy Spirit. I stopped listening to him years ago.

If you think I’m lying - so be it. I have absolutely no reason to falsely add Hank to the scores of other anti-Catholic broadcasters out there.

I wasn’t claiming you were lying, and my apologies if it seemed that way. It’s just possible to misunderstand people in a brief broadcast or hearing them say one thing when they’ve expounded upon that position in another. I’ve been guilty of that myself - and sometimes I’ve thought well of people before realizing later on they taught heresies or believed unorthodox things.

It’s possible that Hanegraaff changed his position, or perhaps created a more educated opinion of it. After all, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was a racist until he met Frederick Douglass, so people can change

 

[elvisman]

I wasn’t claiming you were lying, and my apologies if it seemed that way. It’s just possible to misunderstand people in a brief broadcast or hearing them say one thing when they’ve expounded upon that position in another. I’ve been guilty of that myself - and sometimes I’ve thought well of people before realizing later on they taught heresies or believed unorthodox things.

It’s possible that Hanegraaff changed his position, or perhaps created a more educated opinion of it. After all, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was a racist until he met Frederick Douglass, so people can change

I couldn’t agree with you more - people CAN change.

 

[Adonia]

I have found her story compelling. All the abuse she suffered and how she has gone on with her life. I respect her strength. As for her theology, well, she’s entitled to believe what she wants to. I wish her the best!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

As for her theology, well, she’s entitled to believe what she wants to.

Uh…with all due respect, should we say the same for Arius, Nestorius, Pelagius, and others?

We’re not talking about someone who has a specific opinion about minor stuff…we’re talking a woman - and one who teaches others - teaching doctrines such as the torture of our Lord in hell by demons, and that from this we received our salvation.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I watched her show a couple times. I enjoyed it and found that some of what she said made sense to me.

However I found it odd that she is a divorced and remarried woman. We all know what the Bible says about that.

What do you think of her? Is she like Benny Hinn without the miracles, the stereotypical televangelist? Or is she the real deal?

To understand Joyce Meyer, you have to understand where she’s coming from. Now I’ve never really sat down and listened to her, but I have read a couple of her books.

If my understanding is correct, she was badly abused as a child, including sexual abuse. It took her a long, long time to get to what might be called a stable personal base. I wasn’t aware she’d been divorced, although I knew she resented “Dave’s” laid back personality since she used to get so stewed up herself.

Hence the main thrust of her ministry is trying to get people to know that God loves them, and that they can over come major issues on this basis. And she had to overcome quite significant discouragement in the early days of her own ministry.

I don’t think she preaches a “prosperity gospel” in the purely material sense. What I do think she’s on about is trying to get people to stop thinking negatively.

I suppose I’m reminded of a homily where a priest in our parish ridiculed the current obsession of “self-help” books in book stores, stating they were not what life was about.

No doubt he’s correct. However that doesn’t help those people who might really be struggling with a sense of frustration, lack of self esteem, and all the rest. They’re looking for encouragement, and from my experience, the Catholic Church is not necessarily the best place to get it.

And until the Catholic Church starts doing something in this area, the fundamentalists will continue to appeal to such people.

 

[Adonia]

Uh…with all due respect, should we say the same for Arius, Nestorius, Pelagius, and others?

We’re not talking about someone who has a specific opinion about minor stuff…we’re talking a woman - and one who teaches others - teaching doctrines such as the torture of our Lord in hell by demons, and that from this we received our salvation.

So, how does her belief affect me in my spirtual journey? A person can be a Morman, a Jehovah’s Witness, a Baptist, Pentacostal or whatever. They all have the free will to believe what they want.The same goes for Joyce Meyer. To me, it is not my position to judge her for what she believes or teaches. If someone wants to follow her teachings, more power to them. For me, I look to the Roman Rite for teaching and spiritual fulfillment.

 

[rinnie]

To understand Joyce Meyer, you have to understand where she’s coming from. Now I’ve never really sat down and listened to her, but I have read a couple of her books.

If my understanding is correct, she was badly abused as a child, including sexual abuse. It took her a long, long time to get to what might be called a stable personal base. I wasn’t aware she’d been divorced, although I knew she resented “Dave’s” laid back personality since she used to get so stewed up herself.

Hence the main thrust of her ministry is trying to get people to know that God loves them, and that they can over come major issues on this basis. And she had to overcome quite significant discouragement in the early days of her own ministry.

I don’t think she preaches a “prosperity gospel” in the purely material sense. What I do think she’s on about is trying to get people to stop thinking negatively.

I suppose I’m reminded of a homily where a priest in our parish ridiculed the current obsession of “self-help” books in book stores, stating they were not what life was about.

No doubt he’s correct. However that doesn’t help those people who might really be struggling with a sense of frustration, lack of self esteem, and all the rest. They’re looking for encouragement, and from my experience, the Catholic Church is not necessarily the best place to get it.

And until the Catholic Church starts doing something in this area, the fundamentalists will continue to appeal to such people.

Interesting point. I understand alot if what you are saying but here is the main thing I think we have to realize.

Authority! Where does her authority come from. God? The Holy Spirit? See the word of God says that all authority from heaven has been given to me. Which of course is Jesus. And Jesus said he has authority to teach in his Fathers name here on this earth. And then he gave that authority to the Apostles. And that authority was to be continued on by the laying of hands. We as Catholic’s call that succession of laying of Hands Holy Orders.

That is where my problem begins. I can teach you the bible, but do you want what I think or what God says. We as individuals cannot ever understand God’s ways. That is why he left us the CC. Not Joyce.

 

[Jguerra]

I watch her for entertainment value only. I don’t put any weight on her theology or spirituality.

 

[rinnie]

I watch her for entertainment value only. I don’t put any weight on her theology or spirituality.

And You know something you said hit a nerve with me also. I agree once in awhile for some reason change surfing she will get my attention. As many preachers do of all faiths.

And I have seen that although they may not be of my faith, God can use them to speak to me. They can be speaking of a scripture, and for some reason that scripture will come to play either at that moment or very soon in my life.

Anyone who wants to talk about our Lord Well that can get my attention!!

I have learned alot about God from Jews, Mormons. Catholic’s ( of course Protestants of all walks of life, even Muslims. I have learned there is usually some God in everyone.

It is the God in them, (which is the truth in them) that I love. I pray that someday we can all become One in Christ and that it will happen here, before Christ comes back again in glory. But I just don’t think its gonna happen anytime soon. But I can still hope and pray

 

[Adonia]

And You know something you said hit a nerve with me also. I agree once in awhile for some reason change surfing she will get my attention. As many preachers do of all faiths.

And I have seen that although they may not be of my faith, God can use them to speak to me. They can be speaking of a scripture, and for some reason that scripture will come to play either at that moment or very soon in my life.

Anyone who wants to talk about our Lord Well that can get my attention!!

I have learned alot about God from Jews, Mormons. Catholic’s ( of course Protestants of all walks of life, even Muslims. I have learned there is usually some God in everyone.

It is the God in them, (which is the truth in them) that I love. I pray that someday we can all become One in Christ and that it will happen here, before Christ comes back again in glory. But I just don’t think its gonna happen anytime soon. But I can still hope and pray

Amen!!!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

If someone wants to follow her teachings, more power to them.

Wow…I mean seriously…

If only Paul, Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Maximos the Confessor, John of Damascus and many others who fought and suffered against heretical teachings were here today…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Wow…I mean seriously…

If only Paul, Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Maximos the Confessor, John of Damascus and many others who fought and suffered against heretical teachings were here today…

They would probably say something along the lines of “if she is not against me, she is for me.”

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

They would probably say something along the lines of “if she is not against me, she is for me.”

Is that what they said to the Judaizers, Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites and Iconoclasts?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

You would need to lump Protestantism together rather than zero in on Joyce Meyer. She’s a product of Protestantism. If she’s guilty of heresy in your eyes, then so is Protestantism in general.

I sometimes wonder if the disintegration of Protestant churches from a relative handful of mainline denominations into thousands of competing sects isn’t a lead up to an eventual re-unification of the church.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

You would need to lump Protestantism together rather than zero in on Joyce Meyer. She’s a product of Protestantism. If she’s guilty of heresy in your eyes, then so is Protestantism in general.

I sometimes wonder if the disintegration of Protestant churches from a relative handful of mainline denominations into thousands of competing sects isn’t a lead up to an eventual re-unification of the church.

Wow, way to jump subjects! And here I thought we believed in the "“if she is not against me, she is for me” statement.

I’ll ask you again, in the context that many great fighters of heresy would have agreed with your position in this post:

Is that what they said to the Judaizers, Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites and Iconoclasts?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Wow, way to jump subjects! And here I thought we believed in the "“if she is not against me, she is for me” statement.

I’ll ask you again, in the context that many great fighters of heresy would have agreed with your position in this post:

Is that what they said to the Judaizers, Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites and Iconoclasts?

I don’t think Joyce Meyer’s position compares with that of the Judaiizers, Arians, et al. As I said above, if you think she’s heretical, then her “error” is merely an extension of the lack of Protestant centralised teaching.

Or as my old PROTESTANT pastor once said to me, “When it comes to theology, Protestants couldn’t agree how far to spit.”

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I don’t think Joyce Meyer’s position compares with that of the Judaiizers, Arians, et al…

So you’re OK with the teaching of the Word of Faith movement in general, as well as the idea that our salvation was not found on the cross but the torture of our Lord in hell by demons? That sounds perfectly orthodox to you? That doesn’t sound like something an early Church Father would condemn as heresy and fight against to make sure people weren’t deceived by it? That doesn’t sound like something that blasphemes our Lord and His works?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

So you’re OK with the teaching of the Word of Faith movement in general, as well as the idea that our salvation was not found on the cross but the torture of our Lord in hell by demons? That sounds perfectly orthodox to you? That doesn’t sound like something an early Church Father would condemn as heresy and fight against to make sure people weren’t deceived by it? That doesn’t sound like something that blasphemes our Lord and His works?

Have you explicitly heard Joyce Meyer state that Christ was tortured in Hell by demons? At no time in the few books of hers that I have read have I seen anything remotely like that.

I had to go and look up the “Word Of Faith” movement to find out what you were talking about. It would seem that some of the main practitioners eg. Copeland, preach something along that line, but there also appears to be dissension from that opinion.

And I haven’t read where Joyce Meyer explicitly made that particular claim. But then I haven’t sat down and listened to her for any length of time. Probably five minutes in all.

What is obvious is that she has a lot of faith in Scripture, as do Protestants in general. If you go to a Protestant home group for example, it will usually be about nothing but the Bible. If the Catholic Church were ever to take up the idea of home groups, the discussion would have to cover a much wider range eg. tradition, Eucharist, saints, Mary, apostolic authority, and so on. If there were ever a revival based on a Catholic Church, home groups would be a necessity, as so many people with no knowledge of Church teaching would suddenly need to embark on a very steep learning curve.

As far as I’m concerned, there was a hellish struggle going on as Christ was on the cross itself. The sky went dark, and there was an earthquake. He himself stated this was their “hour”. I’ve long believed that one of the reasons all his disciples ran away on the night of His arrest is that Satan and his demons would have been there in force. The sense of fear, hate and horror would almost have been palpable.

The Scripture, and the Creeds, also state He descended into hell, although my understanding is that He went to preach to the imprisoned spirits, who had died previously, and not to suffer in the flames of hell.

I haven’t got it in for Joyce Meyer in other words.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Have you explicitly heard Joyce Meyer state that Christ was tortured in Hell by demons? At no time in the few books of hers that I have read have I seen anything remotely like that.

I had to go and look up the “Word Of Faith” movement to find out what you were talking about. It would seem that some of the main practitioners eg. Copeland, preach something along that line, but there also appears to be dissension from that opinion.

And I haven’t read where Joyce Meyer explicitly made that particular claim. But then I haven’t sat down and listened to her for any length of time. Probably five minutes in all.

Before you defend her and declare her an orthodox teacher, see what she teaches.

I linked to her statements regarding Christ’s torture in hell early in this thread, specifically in my first post near the beginning. Listen to that and then come back and tell me whether or not she wouldn’t have had a nice home in Irenaeus’s Against Heresies if she lived in the second century AD .

 

[Adonia]

Wow…I mean seriously…

If only Paul, Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Maximos the Confessor, John of Damascus and many others who fought and suffered against heretical teachings were here today…

Sorry, I am none of those folks. I am me. I have got enough problems without worrying about what some other human being who has the same FREE WILL that I have, wants to believe or who they wish to look to for spiritual teaching. Look, if you feel the need to fight the heresies in this world, more power TO YOU. That’s not me. Seriously!!!