What do you do if you regret converting?

[Katoriku_Rant]

Oh, and if no one else has mentioned it, have you read The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Sounds like you might have had an emotional conversion, at first, then. Emotional conversions are great, until the warm fuzzies blow away. Just letting you know, almost everyone has an emotional conversion at some point, or at many points. It doesn’t mean an emotional conversion doesn’t help, just that emotional conversion can be thought of more as a quick fix rather than a real repair.

Think of it this way- your emotional conversion is like coffee when you’re tired. It gives you a great pick me up, but if you don’t get some sleep soon, you’ll be back to the drained feeling you had before the coffee, and the feeling may instead be worse.

So, now that the warm fuzzies have blown away, now is a great time to question everything you ever thought you knew about the Catholic faith. Start reading every book you get your hands on, read the Saints, the Fathers, the historians, and read it all from every angle.

The reason why I have ended up being Catholic after all is due to having been able to question everything. There is a rational basis for every one of the Church’s dogmas and doctrines, and everything can be questioned without fear.

Ask yourself what is a man made Church, and then ask how the Church is man-made. Then, for every one of your answers, question those.

This will sound very counter-intuitive, but go into it thinking that everything you know must be mistaken. So if you think that the Church is man-made, see what evidence you can find for it NOT being man-made, and then weigh it against the evidence for it BEING man-made. Ask and weigh every question, even those questions that seem insulting or absurd.

Think, and reason your way through. And keep praying, constantly. This is when faith gets its butt kicked, but its a necessary butt-kicking.

Yeah, it probably was an emotional conversion. I don’t know if I would have joined if not for my fear about my surgery.

I’m studying a lot, though I’m staying away from the Church Fathers, since reading some of the things they wrote helped to start my current crisis. But I’m not going to get into that now. I’m reading different books and Church documents.

I’m actually trying that angle (assuming that the Church is wrong) and seeing if I can find anything to contradict that.

 

[valient_Lucy]

This is a common problem among converts- the newness of the faith wears off, and they’re faced with the reality that the cross- though beautiful because it is the means of salvation, is still the cross- an intentionally inhumane means of execution. I always try to encourage Catholics, while they are excited about the Faith, to pray that they may stay faithful to the Church when the emotional desire to do so isn’t there. When you find yourself feeling as you do, it may take all you’ve got- but ask God to help you understand why you converted. Ask God to help you learn to embrace the Cross.

I will.

 

[valient_Lucy]

For whatever reason, we Catholics are under constant attack.

I don’t know why. [Well, maybe I do.]

I find myself sometimes going back to the very basics.

Jesus founded the Church.

There were “challenges” along the way.

300 years of persecution, during which all the Popes were killed.

600 years later, Islam came along. Wars.

1500 years later there was the Protestant revolution, based on Henry the VIII’s sexual “needs” and Martin Luther’s protests getting out of hand.

So I start in with things like: I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. And in Jesus Christ His only Son, Our Lord. Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Born of the Virgin Mary. Suffered under Pontius Pilate. Was crucified. Died. And was buried. He descended into hell. And rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into Heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. From whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

Just take these one at a time.

Some of it is a lot to wrap your mind around.

Some is so wonderful that you can get lost in it.

Correction: Henry VIII did not start a new church because of his sexual “needs,” but because of his political needs. He needed (or thought he needed) a son. As an aside, the real tragedy of Henry VIII was that he married Charles V’s neice. If he had married anyone else, then he would have gotten his annulment, and the English Reformation never would have happened.

Also, the Reformation wasn’t all bad. There were good things that came out of it.

Other than that, you’re right to focus on the basics, and not to get lost in the finer points of things. Perhaps that’s what got me into trouble in the first place.

 

[Sonny69]

I converted to the Catholic Church almost five years ago, and unfortuantely I’ve spent the last six months or so regretting it. Maybe regretting is too strong a word. But I look back on my conversion, and I realize that I believed the Church was true because I **wanted **it to be true. I ignored what my professors and my pastor said about the Catholic Church, because I wanted to believe that the Church was true, and converted in spite of what they taught.

I still think it’s possible that the Church is true, maybe even probable. But I don’t think that it’s something that we can know with any kind of certainty. It’s sad in a way, because I used to really love the Church, but I don’t think I’ll ever feel that way again. On the other hand, it might have saved me from doing something really extreme, like dying for the Church. The Catholic Church may be the greatest thing ever invented by man, but if it’s invented by man, than it’s not worth dying for

And yet, I still wish that I could believe, the way I used to believe.

Hello Lucy,

I would like you to define what “church” is to you because your understanding of what you mean by church may be the key to understanding your issue.

Then, I would ask you to define what the church is according to the word of God and I realize your definition may be the same, but it helps to get one’s thought about the main topic before anyone can begin to possibly help you.

God bless you. S69

 

[valient_Lucy]

I read this book the other day.

dynamiccatholic.com/index.php?page=confessions

He really talks a lot about his conversion from being a Methodist minister to being an ordinary Catholic layperson.

He talks a lot about the challenge of John 6 … verses 20 to 70 or so.

And he talks a lot about the “communion of saints” … how we don’t adore or worship the saints, but how we should not ignore them either.

How Catholic worship does not revolve around the ability of the priest to write a great sermon, but how it focuses around the Consecration.

Excellent read. Easy to follow.

He suggests looking at Dali’s “Last Supper”

And reading Kreeft’s “Jesus Shock”.

And reading Joan Carroll Cruz’s fabulous book, " The Incorruptables".

The book sounds interesting. I’ll pick it up.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’ve sent you a private message with my email address. You can feel free to be as unrational, as angry, and as hurt as you like. Conversely, if you’d prefer talking to someone face to face your favorite priest and/or confessor would be an excellent one to approach.

There is nothing they haven’t heard in the course of priestly duties, so there is nothing to be ashamed of in talking with them.

Peace be with you, Lucy

Thanks.

 

[CSUNGerrie]

I’m not strongly convinvced that I want to leave the Church. You do have some good suggestions as to who I should talk to and what I should do.

On the other hand, I feel a little guilty, because I never did that with my Protestant pastor before I left. I should have given him a chance to explain why the doctrine of the Real Presence was demonic, rather than dismissing it.

Great! This would be a good time to give both perspectives an equal chance that way you have no regrets. Come to think of it, you will always have lingering doubts. Just make a diligent study right now and pray so that when in doubt, you can remain faithful by remembering your study. Just give both Catholic and Protestant POV an equal chance.

I always find it shocking when a Pastor starts proclaiming the Eucharist as demonic. That should be a red flag. Does your pastor celebrate communion at all?

If I may, can I reccomend you check out some of the resources on the Bible Christian Society: biblechristiansociety.com/download
I particularely reccomend to you check out the talk on Marriage and the Eucharist. It changed my life.

Also, please, please, please make sure to call Catholic Answers Live with your questions catholic.com/radio/stations.asp
In fact, you might encourage your pastor to call him with his objections so that you can instantly receive a Catholic and Protestant answer to your doubts. They usually have a weekly show for non catholics. Check out the calender of future shows.
God Bless You

 

[valient_Lucy]

Great! This would be a good time to give both perspectives an equal chance that way you have no regrets. Come to think of it, you will always have lingering doubts. Just make a diligent study right now and pray so that when in doubt, you can remain faithful by remembering your study. Just give both Catholic and Protestant POV an equal chance.

I always find it shocking when a Pastor starts proclaiming the Eucharist as demonic. That should be a red flag. Does your pastor celebrate communion at all?

If I may, can I reccomend you check out some of the resources on the Bible Christian Society: biblechristiansociety.com/download
I particularely reccomend to you check out the talk on Marriage and the Eucharist. It changed my life.

Also, please, please, please make sure to call Catholic Answers Live with your questions catholic.com/radio/stations.asp
In fact, you might encourage your pastor to call him with his objections so that you can instantly receive a Catholic and Protestant answer to your doubts. They usually have a weekly show for non catholics. Check out the calender of future shows.
God Bless You

I haven’t attended that Protestant church in years, but the last time I was there, they celebrated communion at one service a month.

I went to the Bible Christian society, and I downloaded that talk you recommended.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Hi Lucy. Sorry you’re going through a rough patch in the road. Sounds like you have a few missing links in your education. That’s all correctable

what changed your mind

What’s really going on behind that comment?

I guess what’s really behind that comment is the fact that I feel as though I was deceived, and I allowed myself to be deceived. I don’t think I’m getting any more specific about it than that right now, because I don’t think I can have a rational discussion about it. It’s hard to do that when you feel as though you’ve been lied to. That’s what I mean about my comment how I used to love the Church, but I don’t think I ever will again. It’s difficult to love something (or someone) when you feel as though they lied to you.

Correction Lucy. Jesus started the Catholic Church. That’s all provable. ALL and I mean ALL the Protestant world, is 100% invented by dissident men. We know exactly who started each and every group and when it was started. NONE obviously were started by God and they DID scatter the sheep. Here’s how Paul puts it in a warning

Rom 16:

17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Paul said this to the Church of Rome in his letter dated ~54 a.d. 16 centuries later, Protestantism was invented, by breaking from the Church of Rome. And they went into serial division from each other after that. And Paul condemned it in advance.

Ok. Prove that Jesus started the Catholic Church.

You can prove that Protestant churches were started by men. They admit that. They don’t deny that.

You will again. Just ask away

I don’t know if I’ll ask now, because I don’t think I can do so rationally.

 

[promethius]

I guess what’s really behind that comment is the fact that I feel as though I was deceived, and I allowed myself to be deceived. I don’t think I’m getting any more specific about it than that right now, because I don’t think I can have a rational discussion about it. It’s hard to do that when you feel as though you’ve been lied to. That’s what I mean about my comment how I used to love the Church, but I don’t think I ever will again. It’s difficult to love something (or someone) when you feel as though they lied to you.

Who lied to you, Lucy? Was it the church? Or was it a person?

I know when you’re hurt it’s difficult to remember, but the failures of man are just that: failures of men. The Church has never advocated lying to anyone to get them to convert. The Church Body does not need such tricks.

If you’re angry at SOMEONE, then so be it, and I think when you’ve settled down you should talk to them so that they don’t do the same to others, because deceiving people into the church niether wins souls nor makes a person truly catholic… but don’t be mad at the church because men are sinful.

Ok. Prove that Jesus started the Catholic Church.

You can prove that Protestant churches were started by men. They admit that. They don’t deny that.

I’ll leave the proving the positive that Jesus started the church to someone else and tell you how I go about it:

1. We know from the Bible that the church is the pillar and foundation of Truth, built upon the rock of Peter, with Christ as the keystone (or cornerstone). We know that Christ tells the church that he who hears you, hears Me. We know that the church leadership is breathed upon by Christ in the same way that God first breathed life into man. What we also know is that Christ tells us that the Church will be sealed with the Holy Spirit and the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against it.
2. That last bit is important. It means that since the beginning of the new covenant, there has been ONE church which will have existed throughout all history without any break or pause. If there wasn’t such a church, then Jesus was wrong or lying, both of which would mean He is not God, and therefore we should go back to being Jews (or atheists).
3. So it becomes critically important that there is a church which has existed since the foundation of the new covenant without pause, and as you said, protestant churches all realize that they were creations of men more than a millenium later… so (in my mind) they simply DON’T fit the bill. The only ones that can trace a lineage directly back to Christ are the Western Rite Catholics and the Orthodox Catholics. Like the geneology of Christ, which was so important that it is included TWICE in the Bible, we can trace our “geneology” back as well.
4. So to me, it’s all down to that one verse: either Christ was truthful and there is only one church which without pause will exist until the end of time and the gates of hell will never prevail against it… or Christ was a liar/fool and is unworthy of worship.

Since I believe Christ, I am Catholic (and in particular I feel the debate between the orthodox and western rites was won by the western rite catholics). If I ever cease to be catholic, it will be because I no longer believe in Christ. There is simply no other church which validates the statements about the church made by Christ.

I don’t know if I’ll ask now, because I don’t think I can do so rationally.

Take your time, Lucy. We’re here for you

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Correction: Henry VIII did not start a new church because of his sexual “needs,” but because of his political needs. He needed (or thought he needed) a son. As an aside, the real tragedy of Henry VIII was that he married Charles V’s neice. If he had married anyone else, then he would have gotten his annulment, and the English Reformation never would have happened.

Also, the Reformation wasn’t all bad. **There were good things that came out of it. **

Other than that, you’re right to focus on the basics, and not to get lost in the finer points of things. Perhaps that’s what got me into trouble in the first place.

Like?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Also, the Reformation wasn’t all bad. There were good things that came out of it.

Like?

Well, for one thing, the Reformers recovered a more positive view of marriage. This is not to say that their view wasn’t perfect, but it was an improvement of over the status quo.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Well, for one thing, the Reformers recovered a more positive view of marriage. This is not to say that their view wasn’t perfect, but it was an improvement of over the status quo.

How so? What was their view of it and what was the status quo?

 

[valient_Lucy]

How so? What was their view of it and what was the status quo?

Well, before the Reformation, marriage was treated with suspicion by many in the Church, who viewed it as an obstacle to holiness. The Reformers, in contrast, viewed marriage as God’s plan for the human race, and didn’t see any opposition between marriage and living a holy life.

This wasn’t to say their view of marriage was perfect, but these teachings (that marriage was God’s plan for humans and married people could be holy) were important teachings that had been lost over the centuries, and the Reformers helped to restore them.

 

[Trishie]

How is this not a holy view of marriage?
Catholic view of marriage, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm

The grace of the sacrament of Matrimony

1641 "By reason of their state in life and of their order, [Christian spouses] have their own special gifts in the People of God."145 This grace proper to the sacrament of Matrimony is intended to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity. By this grace they "help one another to attain holiness in their married life and in welcoming and educating their children."146

1642 Christ is the source of this grace. "Just as of old God encountered his people with a covenant of love and fidelity, so our Savior, the spouse of the Church, now encounters Christian spouses through the sacrament of Matrimony."147 Christ dwells with them, gives them the strength to take up their crosses and so follow him, to rise again after they have fallen, to forgive one another, to bear one another’s burdens, to "be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ,"148 and to love one another with supernatural, tender, and fruitful love. In the joys of their love and family life he gives them here on earth a foretaste of the wedding feast of the Lamb:

How can I ever express the happiness of a marriage joined by the Church, strengthened by an offering, sealed by a blessing, announced by angels, and ratified by the Father? . . . How wonderful the bond between two believers, now one in hope, one in desire, one in discipline, one in the same service! They are both children of one Father and servants of the same Master, undivided in spirit and flesh, truly two in one flesh. Where the flesh is one, one also is the spirit.149

 

[Trishie]

The Catechism continues…

1639 The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.141 From their covenant arises "an institution, confirmed by the divine law, . . . even in the eyes of society."142 The covenant between the spouses is integrated into God’s covenant with man:
"Authentic married love is caught up into divine love."143

Marriage in the order of creation

1603 "The intimate community of life and love which constitutes the married state has been established by the Creator and endowed by him with its own proper laws. . . . God himself is the author of marriage."87 The vocation to marriage is written in the very nature of man and woman as they came from the hand of the Creator. Marriage is not a purely human institution despite the many variations it may have undergone through the centuries in different cultures, social structures, and spiritual attitudes. These differences should not cause us to forget its common and permanent characteristics. Although the dignity of this institution is not transparent everywhere with the same clarity,88 some sense of the greatness of the matrimonial union exists in all cultures. "The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family life."89

What makes a marriage into something less holy is the individuals themselves, if they don’t live in mutual love and fidelity.

And the Church didn’t lie to you. It spoke as only it can, with the truth.

If we don’t fully understand, don’t really know, don’t really research, are precipitous, it isn’t that which is outside ourselves which is lying to us, but our own self, we deceived ourself. In any case, I hope you find your way to peace, and if possible, truth. That latter isn’t always possible, especially if we are already stressed beyond what we find bearable.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Well, before the Reformation, marriage was treated with suspicion by many in the Church, who viewed it as an obstacle to holiness. The Reformers, in contrast, viewed marriage as God’s plan for the human race, and didn’t see any opposition between marriage and living a holy life.

This wasn’t to say their view of marriage was perfect, but these teachings (that marriage was God’s plan for humans and married people could be holy) were important teachings that had been lost over the centuries, and the Reformers helped to restore them.

:ehh: Do you have a source for that?

 

[promethius]

Well, before the Reformation, marriage was treated with suspicion by many in the Church, who viewed it as an obstacle to holiness.

Huh? The church has been an avid proponent of marraige since the first century, when it was started. I even wrote a 12 page paper in Theo 400 on why Catholic views on marraige in the first five centuries were one of the chief reasons for the rise of Christianity and the fall of Paganism.

There has never been a time in history when the church, institutionally, despised marraige as a roadblock to holiness. Anyone teaching such at an point in history would have been speaking heresy, since laypersons are CALLED BY GOD to marry.

 

[Los_Angeles]

I converted to the Catholic Church almost five years ago, and unfortuantely I’ve spent the last six months or so regretting it. Maybe regretting is too strong a word. But I look back on my conversion, and I realize that I believed the Church was true because I **wanted **it to be true. I ignored what my professors and my pastor said about the Catholic Church, because I wanted to believe that the Church was true, and converted in spite of what they taught.

I still think it’s possible that the Church is true, maybe even probable. But I don’t think that it’s something that we can know with any kind of certainty. It’s sad in a way, because I used to really love the Church, but I don’t think I’ll ever feel that way again. On the other hand, it might have saved me from doing something really extreme, like dying for the Church. The Catholic Church may be the greatest thing ever invented by man, but if it’s invented by man, than it’s not worth dying for

And yet, I still wish that I could believe, the way I used to believe.

Hi valient Lucy,

I converted to the Catholic Church in 2004 nearly the same as you.

Before my conversion, I used to occasionally attend a Protestant Church and had many long time friends from high school there. I can’t say that I have any regrets since my conversion was official, but it was hard for me at first to accept the fact that I was no longer supposed to attend their worship services and Bible Studies and many of my Protestant friends actually went to my first communion to support me. What I found out later was that going the Catholic Church was enough, and I didn’t need to attend Protestant Bible studies or worship services.

They view the Catholic Church in different ways, and some of them outright don’t have good things to say about Mary and the Saints ect. Most accepted my decision, but some got into arguments with me, and told me to get out of the Catholic Church. The good news is that I don’t have to try and make sense of the Protestant version of Christianity anymore. The Table of Contents for the Bible was not inspired. The Catholic Church was in charge of putting the Bible together and interpreting Scripture, protecting believers from heresy. I could go on forever in debates with my Protestant friends, but what I noticed was that how much misunderstanding there is of the Catholic Church by not just Protestants, also “cafeteria” Catholics.

I don’t know what “certainty” you are seeking, but I believe that the Catholic Church just like the Holy Bible is the Truth and contains no contradictions or errors.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.