M
mcmitton
Guest
Say a very quiet “ouch?”
What do you do when a stranger grabs your hand during Our Father prayer?
- Status
T
TimothyH
Guest
This is so silly.
We use door knobs every day and don’t think twice. Money is soaked with perspiration from being in people’s pockets right next to their crotch and loaded with bacteria and we think nothing of it. I was a line cook for eight years - if most people knew what took place in commercial kitchens they would never eat out.
Freaking out over holding someone’s hand for about 25 seconds is just the most nonsensical thing.
-Tim-
We use door knobs every day and don’t think twice. Money is soaked with perspiration from being in people’s pockets right next to their crotch and loaded with bacteria and we think nothing of it. I was a line cook for eight years - if most people knew what took place in commercial kitchens they would never eat out.
Freaking out over holding someone’s hand for about 25 seconds is just the most nonsensical thing.
-Tim-
P
pianistclare
Guest
Absolutely. Thank you.We aren’t always called to do big things, just small things with great love.
I understand the aversion to the hand holding / hand shaking. The first thing I do when I get in my car is put on hand sanitizer and the first thing I do when I come home is wash my hands. And that’s the case all the time, not just with going to Mass.
But I don’t think we should look down on the idea of sucking it up every once in a while and suffering through minor inconveniences with a smile for the sake of our neighbor. I bet more grace is obtained through such small sacrifices than we might think. If we cannot suffer through a minor inconvenience with love, then how will we be prepared to offer greater sacrifices?
P
ProVobis
Guest
I don’t know if I’d put it that way. When one comes into touching or even close contact with another, it has to take away from that person’s full attention to the prayer and perhaps invade his personal space. What purpose does that serve at Mass if focus now is directed towards one’s neighbor?
1
1newcatholic
Guest
100% agree. Holding out your hand and then rejecting a common gesture of human contact–especially when most everyone else is holding hands–is more like a slap in the face at a moment when you supposed to be expressing love. How humiliating would it be if you tried to hold a parishioners hand at that particular moment and she freaked out because she had to touch you?
If you don’t want to hold hands, don’t hold out your hands towards other people at a moment when everyone else is holding hands. It’s common sense.
My wife carries an alcohol-based hand sanitizer in her purse. You could discretely use something like this before receiving the host, if germs are your concern.
Alternatively, you could move one row forward or backward, but you have already indicated that this is a major imposition.
T
TheSurvivor
Guest
One thing we can agree on!
Edit # 1
Never mind
, I read it again I do not agree. Hand shaking is great though and not to be avoided in my opinion. At a parish in Muscat, Oman when people offered each other peace they folded their hands and bowed to one another. For those of you who do not want to shake hands perhaps this is a suitable solution. I do not think one should avoid offering peace especially because of germs.
P
ProVobis
Guest
When I see grown men hold each others hands for more than a few seconds, I do freak out, Tim. Even football players in a huddle.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Do those things really work? It hasn’t stopped me from catching colds.
M
Mintaka
Guest
Holding hands during prayer is a tradition at Alcoholics Anonymous, and in some evangelical churches. It’s not a Catholic tradition, generally speaking, and it’s not the tradition at Mass.
That said, the Church has not forbidden people to hold hands.
That said, the Church has never said that it is proper to hold hands with people who have not consented to it.
A lot of this talk about “germs” and “grabbiness” is really talk about personal space. People have a right not to be touched or hugged by random strangers if they don’t wish to be; it is not somehow a “colder” attitude than those who have less need for personal space, or who are willing to grant the personal space privileges of family to random strangers.
If you think about it, doing it constantly to other people who don’t want it is an assault on their entire right to live their own life. “My way of doing things is correct! Your way of doing things and all your human rights are as nothing! My love is the only way to love!”
Anyway, the normal way to pray the Our Father is with folded or pressed together hands. Any other way of praying it is unusual. Abusing an unusual privilege by dragging people into it who don’t want to do it is asking for the entire practice to be banned. Offering to hold hands is okay, but don’t be upset if the offer is turned down.
That said, the Church has not forbidden people to hold hands.
That said, the Church has never said that it is proper to hold hands with people who have not consented to it.
A lot of this talk about “germs” and “grabbiness” is really talk about personal space. People have a right not to be touched or hugged by random strangers if they don’t wish to be; it is not somehow a “colder” attitude than those who have less need for personal space, or who are willing to grant the personal space privileges of family to random strangers.
If you think about it, doing it constantly to other people who don’t want it is an assault on their entire right to live their own life. “My way of doing things is correct! Your way of doing things and all your human rights are as nothing! My love is the only way to love!”
Anyway, the normal way to pray the Our Father is with folded or pressed together hands. Any other way of praying it is unusual. Abusing an unusual privilege by dragging people into it who don’t want to do it is asking for the entire practice to be banned. Offering to hold hands is okay, but don’t be upset if the offer is turned down.
1
1newcatholic
Guest
It’s called the Our Father, not the My Father, correct? And the root word behind “communion” is the same word behind “community,” right? And is it called MASS, or SINGULARITY?
How can people be so self absorbed during Mass when the two great laws are Love God and Love Your NEIGHBOR???
P
ProVobis
Guest
This is reason to hold hands?
M
Mintaka
Guest
It has not ever been the practice of the Church, in any Rite, to pray all over each other, unless there’s a specific ceremony like Baptism or Matrimony when the priest, deacon, etc. are interacting with several of the faithful as part of the ritual.
If you’re in a Latin Rite church going to Mass, the imagery from beginning to end is that of an army troop performing a religious ceremony in formation, led by the priest. (“Missa est” at the end = Dismissed.)
Army troops are not “self-absorbed,” but neither do they hold hands. Each individual in our flock is interacting with God individually; we stand, sit, and kneel together as a group, and we offer our prayers along with the priest as a group. But our thoughts and prayers are expected to be our own as well as the group’s.
Furthermore, the time from the Eucharistic prayer through Communion and just after, has historically been the time when most Catholic visions and religious experiences occur - which is to say, that’s when God most likes to talk to people. (Logically enough.) Yanking people around when God may be trying to talk to them is very rude.
If you’re in a Latin Rite church going to Mass, the imagery from beginning to end is that of an army troop performing a religious ceremony in formation, led by the priest. (“Missa est” at the end = Dismissed.)
Army troops are not “self-absorbed,” but neither do they hold hands. Each individual in our flock is interacting with God individually; we stand, sit, and kneel together as a group, and we offer our prayers along with the priest as a group. But our thoughts and prayers are expected to be our own as well as the group’s.
Furthermore, the time from the Eucharistic prayer through Communion and just after, has historically been the time when most Catholic visions and religious experiences occur - which is to say, that’s when God most likes to talk to people. (Logically enough.) Yanking people around when God may be trying to talk to them is very rude.
T
TheSurvivor
Guest
The word Mass has nothing to do with the other word mass (as in massive). I believe it comes from the Latin word Missa (right guys?) which if I am not mistaken means something like to be dismissed or the sending forth (right guys?).
God Bless
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes -but hand holding is not part of that.It’s called the Our Father, not the My Father, correct? And the root word behind “communion” is the same word behind “community,” right?
Did the early Christians hold hands? No. I doubt that was a custom …
Love of neighbor is not about holding hands.
One is not absorbed in oneself but in God if anything - in the Holy Liturgy.
P
ProVobis
Guest
That is the accepted belief, yes. Many other languages use some variation of the word “missa” in referring to the Catholic liturgy as well.
D
dluna
Guest
Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth. Sorry, English is not my native language.
O
Oneofthewomen
Guest
I have to agree with this.
It never ceases to amaze me how crazy threads (or face-face discussions) over hand-holding, CITH, and what type of music we have at Mass can get.
I have been thinking a lot lately about what I would do if I were a Christian living in Iraq or Syria right now. I can’t even imagine!!!
Makes this debate seem frivolous, at best, IMHO.
Oh well, first world problems, I guess.
R
ruscal97
Guest
I see nothing wrong with a stranger grabbing your hand during the prayer. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
Pax!
Pax!
T
TimothyH
Guest
P
ProVobis
Guest
That may be but it wouldn’t affect you at all if the stranger tries to grab your daughter’s or spouse’s hand without his/her consent?
- Status