What do YOU find confusing about Catholicism?

[Mintaka]

Wannabe_Monk_16 – Does your parish give tuition subsidies? Ours used to pay a good chunk of the tuition for every kid, with a sort of volume discount for people who had more than three.

Of course, I know school costs are high these days, so even a tuition subsidy might not help.

 

[AlNg]

Perhaps after having six children, a couple may be financially strapped and disagree with the teaching on artificial birth control.

 

[BoomerangToo]

I find it confusing that Catholic school tuition are too high for my family.

My mom came from a family of 11 children and all of them went to Catholic elementary school for free. Those days are long gone.

 

[Vico]

My issue with this answer is, why does it matter that the saints in heaven are closer to God? Ultimately, God is impassible and nobody can affect His will, not even saints. Is it just the thought that counts? I’ve had trouble figuring this one out.

It is a practice from ancient times, and St. Paul teaches us to pray for one another, and asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1). If we can to that then those in heaven should also be included for we are one Church.

 

[BoomerangToo]

My issue with this answer is, why does it matter that the saints in heaven are closer to God? Ultimately, God is impassible and nobody can affect His will, not even saints. Is it just the thought that counts? I’ve had trouble figuring this one out.

God does favor certain people and He is more likely to grant their requests as can be seen in Job 42: 7-9

After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

The Wedding at Cana is another example of how Jesus can be moved to act if the right person asks Him.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

I don’t understand what your point is here. It doesn’t answer my question, I don’t think.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

See my post,

But God knows what he is going to do, in the end, as he is omniscient. So what difference does it make, asking for intercession, when God already decided long ago what he is and isn’t going to be persuaded by, which really defeats the whole purpose of the concept of persuasion?

 

[PJM]

Here’s WHY:

There ARe a very GREAT MANY who would and could [if permitted] to take advantage of unsuspecting SOULS. As the Holder of ALL of the key’s to heaven direct access gate; PRUDENCE is truly a Virtue:hugs:

GBY

PJM

 

[PJM]

Nooooooo,

What you suggest is that God stop being GOD [Genesis 1:26-27] and NOT permit humanity [alone and exclusively] to emulate Him with out minds, intellects and FREEWILLS.

God cannot be GOD and give humanity these precious gifts and then NOT Permit man to make use of them

Blessings

PJM

 

[PJM]

But God knows what he is going to do, in the end, as he is omniscient. So what difference does it make, asking for intercession, when God already decided long ago what he is and isn’t going to be persuaded by, which really defeats thewhic whole purpose of the concept of persuasion

My friend this gets to the issue of predestination [Rom 8:29] which Is an impossibility for both God and man

For GOD; who can’t gift humanity with a mind, imtellect $ freewill and then not permit them to use it

For man: who alone emulates GOD with out mind, intellect and freewill and MUST be permitted to use these gifts

You are also, i think not understanding the COMMUNION OD SAINTS

COMMUNION OF SAINTS. The unity and co-operation of the members of the Church on earth with those in heaven and in purgatory. They are united as being one Mystical Body of Christ. The faithful on earth are in communion with each other by professing the same faith, obeying the same authority, and assisting each other with their prayers and good works. They are in communion with the saints in heaven by honoring them as glorified members of the Church, invoking their prayers and aid, and striving to imitate their virtues. They are in communion with the souls in purgatory by helping them with their prayers and good works. FR HARDON’S CATHOLIC DICTIONARY

Blessings

PJM

 

[De_Maria]

I am Catholic.

Original Sin and the Fall confuse me, at least when I try to reconcile it with evolutionary science. There need not be anything in contradiction, but I don’t think it’s been fleshed out enough theologically.

Take for example that evolution occurs in groups, but Faith requires (or seems to require at this time) the belief in the original couple, ie Adam and Eve.

Well, here’s how I reconcile faith and reason on the subject of Adam and Eve.

CCC 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents…

Pope John Paul II in his Message to Pontifical Academy of Sciences October 22, 1996 said,

Pius XII stressed this essential point: if the human body takes its origin from pre-existent living matter the spiritual soul is immediately created by God (“animal enim a Deo immediate creari catholica fides nos retinere inhet”; Encyclical Humani generic, AAS 42 [1950], p. 575).
Catholic Information Network (Magisterium Is Concerned with Question of Evolution - For It Involves Conception of Man)

Therefore, Adam and Eve’s soul was created directly by God.

The body evolved by processes put into effect by God.

Question: But science says that man descended from apes, while the Bible says that man was formed out of dust, Genesis 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul…”

Answer: Science also says that originally all life came fom some primordial mud. In comparison to God, we are all bits of mud and dirt. The Biblical Narrator may have been referring to some apes as a bit of clay and portrayed God as taking a bit of genetic material from this ape to make Adam.

Note also, that all animals were created out of the ground, Genesis 2:19 “And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof…”

Just my own private speculation. I hope it helps.

 

[De_Maria]

I’m Catholic.

I don’t mind invoking the saints, but asking them for things confuses me. I mean, why would they be more willing to give me something than God?

It’s kind of like having a friend on the inside. You know how it’s nice to know people with connections? People that can put in a good word for you. People that can get tickets to nice events and give them to you for a cheaper price or even free.

It’s called, intercession.

 

[De_Maria]

I know that’s the ideal thing but it seems like everyone asks their patron saint to grant them something instead of asking them to pray that they obtain that something.

It’s just shorthand. It’s like the difference between saying, “Hey, Joe, can you get us tickets to the SuperBowl?” Instead of, “Hey, Joe, would you ask your boss if he’ll give us some tickets to the SuperBowl?”

We know that we are asking the Saint for their intercession. Sometimes, non-Catholics get the wrong impression.

 

[De_Maria]

My issue with this answer is, why does it matter that the saints in heaven are closer to God?

Because they’ve proven their love for God.

Ultimately, God is impassible and nobody can affect His will,

He has revealed that people who have faith in Him, please Him.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

He has also revealed that He answers the prayers of faithful men:

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

not even saints. Is it just the thought that counts? I’ve had trouble figuring this one out.

[/QUOTE]
You mean, the word, “impassable”? God is at once, “impassable” and “personal”. It’s like the fact that God is at once the greatest in the universe and the tiniest.

Space and time do not affect God.

 

[De_Maria]

I don’t quite get why Christ had to die for our sins, …Why did he need…

The question of “need” is besides the point. God doesn’t need anything. God chose to do it this way in order to show us the depth of His love and how much we should love one another:

John 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

or be the sacrificial lamb. Why did he need to atone for our sins

Because the blood of bulls and goats could not pay the debt which mankind owed to God.

In the OT, God made a Covenant with man, that He would save them, if they obeyed His will. They mostly disobeyed. But some of them, repented and asked forgiveness. in order for this forgiveness to be accepted, God required amendment for their sins. But man could not pay for their sins. Only God could do so. Therefore, since He had promised to save the faithful Hebrews, He paid for their sins with His own life:

Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant. 16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

when we keep sinning anyhow?

at some point, we, if we’re sincere, are supposed to stop doing so. The canonized Saints are examples that this is not beyond our capacity to do.

 

[De_Maria]

Hope_Philomena:

ILoveYeshua:

Basically that’s a model of divine omniscience, for God created our psyches to begin with.

It’s not a platitude. I’m still trying to fully wrap my head around this response, but thank you for it nonetheless. I think it will be extremely helpful when my mind isn’t so tired

Actually it is an incorrect reply. Omniscience cannot be “modeled”, because this “model” is incorrect.

That’s a non-sequitur. A model that is incorrect, is still a model. If you mean, a “perfect” model, then you come closer. But, your response, as written, does not follow logically.

What it calls “knowledge” is at best an educated guess. What did not happen YET, cannot be known, unless the universe is fully deterministic - in other words if there is no freedom. And that cannot be resolved by saying that God is outside of time, and everything is “now” for him. That would create the problem that an event did not happen from human standpoint, but it already happened from the divine standpoint. And that is nonsense.

It is nonsense to those who can’t imagine it. But it sounds perfectly logical to those of us who can.

Existence is not contingent on the observer.

But it is contingent upon the Creator.

If an event already occurred, then it can be known, but it is not free any more. There IS no freedom in the past (even if there WAS freedom).

But God is free.

If something did not happen, it cannot be known.

Because it didn’t happen.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

Knowledge is information about something, or using the old definition: “knowledge is justified true belief”. To say that something is knowable, even if it did not happen will lead to this kind of question: “Is the number of pages knowable in the book, which has not been written, because the author was never born - due to the fact that her parents never met”?

You can see that this is simply nonsense.

That which you just said is non-sense. But God knows all things. Therefore, He knows how many pages will be in the book which someone is going to write.

• Just think about this: “it is impossible to travel into the past, because we could change it, so the present would never actualize”.

It is impossible for a human. But not for God.

• And then think about this: "The future cannot be known, because such a knowledge would allow us to act on that knowledge, so the “foreknown” future would never happen.

Since God already knows everything, that isn’t a problem, for Him.

Both of these lead to logical impossibilities, and no matter what God is able to do, logical inconsistencies are impossible even for God.

Impossibilities for man. But nothing is impossible with God.

When has God told someone of a choice that they’ll make?

Edit: Like is there an instance where God has told someone of a choice they’ll make in the future?

Have you ever read the curses of the Old Testament?

And that is the reason that God never foretold the future… because it leads to a logical contradiction. (Or because God does not exist. )

[/QUOTE]
God has frequently foretold the future. Mankind has simply not heeded His warnings.

 

[Wesrock]

See my post,

But God knows what he is going to do, in the end, as he is omniscient. So what difference does it make, asking for intercession, when God already decided long ago what he is and isn’t going to be persuaded by, which really defeats the whole purpose of the concept of persuasion?

The error is conceiving it as God having decided “long ago.”

 

[Hope_Philomena]

You mean, the word, “impassable”?

No, I mean impassible as in, incapable of feeling emotions

 

[Hope_Philomena]

Then what would you say instead of this?