What do you think about guitars during mass?

[pnewton]

Lots of Catholic church musicians want to be seen and heard and applauded. Musicians usually have big egos. Performing music that is dictated to them, in a standard way, without being regarding whatsoever or admired by parishioners, is not appealing to them.

This is offensive, rude, prejudicial, uncahritable, defamatory…

Did I miss anything, Cat?

 

[benedictgal]

Now, I do not like the use of this music at Mass at all (the way it’s usually done when I experience it), and several Popes agree.
The main point of the Mass, the center of worship, however, is not the hymns, it is the Eucharist. Music is not the main point of the Mass, though it is a significant part. Getting the music wrong is not going to invalidate the Mass.

All of the rules for liturgical music could change within the next 100 years, it is custom, customs change, and always will change. It is not doctrine or dogma. I’m not saying it’s good, but it’s not evil either. I have heard about ancient African rites that, at the Eucharist prayer, instead of getting quiet, started chanting loudly and pounding the ground. I couldn’t tell you what they are, this is just what I have heard.

By the way, if you think I am being disrespectful, please point out what I’m doing that you find disrespectful.

Your tone about getting worked up over the Mass, as I read it, indicated that perhaps you did not think that this was a worthwhile concern. It was actually worthwhile for many of the faithful in the early days of the Church, including Pope St. Gregory the Great who promulgatged the chant that bears his name and who sought to purify the liturgy.

The wheels of the Church grind slowly, but, they grind finely. The fact that, even 1400 years after Pope St. Gregory, the Church still believes in the primacy of chant shoudl tell you something. Even our own present version of Pope St. Gregory, Pope Benedict XVI, values the important of chant and appropriate sacred music.

My parochial vicar preached what I consider to be one of his best daily Mass homilies in the 14 years I have heard him preach. He linked Pope St. Gregory the Great to Pope Benedict XVI. Both of these learned minds share a love of sacred music. And, in his own time, each sought and seeks to purify it.

I was answering both you and another poster who, as I read his/her post, seems to be confusing what happened outside the cultic worship of ancien Israel with the authentic version as dictated directly by God to Moses.

I also would never refer to a canonized Pope as Pope St. Jimbob. I don’t think this was necessary. There are not that many canonized Popes. We should have just chosen to use the examples already given.

 

[Cat]

This is offensive, rude, prejudicial, uncahritable, defamatory…

Did I miss anything, Cat?

Hey, thanks for the good defense, but I’m still reeling over here from the possibility that my bishop is not to be trusted.

This has not been a good day for me. I fell down last night at the local Labor Day Music Festival (knee gave out and just folded like a piece of origami) and I landed on concrete on both of my poor knees, and today, I ache all over, especially my hands and wrists.

And then to wake up (before work, yes, on Saturday) and discover that my bishop is wrong about pianos and is allowing something to continue in his diocese that is against the official teachings of the Catholic Church–well, I just want to go to bed and sleep for several weeks.

I’m not exaggerating. Trust is a HUGE HUGE problem for me, since we were kicked out of our Protestant church, and now to find out that my bishop (and most other bishops) are deceiving us all–well, so much for Catholicism. Who CAN be trusted!!! I guess the answer is me and Jesus.

 

[Cat]

BTW, I apologize to anyone who was upset that I didn’t realize that Pope Pius X was canonized a saint. It was ignorance on my part–I was posting in a hurry before work and didn’t have time to look it up on Google. I honestly didn’t know, and I wasn’t attempting to insult the saint.

OK?

 

[benedictgal]

Hey, thanks for the good defense, but I’m still reeling over here from the possibility that my bishop is not to be trusted.

This has not been a good day for me. I fell down last night at the local Labor Day Music Festival (knee gave out and just folded like a piece of origami) and I landed on concrete on both of my poor knees, and today, I ache all over, especially my hands and wrists.

And then to wake up (before work, yes, on Saturday) and discover that my bishop is wrong about pianos and is allowing something to continue in his diocese that is against the official teachings of the Catholic Church–well, I just want to go to bed and sleep for several weeks.

I’m not exaggerating. Trust is a HUGE HUGE problem for me, since we were kicked out of our Protestant church, and now to find out that my bishop (and most other bishops) are deceiving us all–well, so much for Catholicism. Who CAN be trusted!!! I guess the answer is me and Jesus.

Cat, first of all, before you start making acusatory statements, please read carefully what many of us have said and, with all due respect, devoid of emotion. Sometimes we let emotions get the better of us and we do not carefully read the objective.

You come from the Protestant background. You are used to the piano. However, I would ask that you read the authoritative documents of the Church which clearly indicated the importance of the proper instruments and proper formation of those involved in sacred music, inclusive of those who write the hymns and settings for the parts of the Mass.

Many parishes and dioceses put the onus on the liturgical teams and on those involved in music ministry to do their homework and read the documentations, the authoritative ones, issued by the Church. It is very important that anyone involved in liturgy, and this includes choir directors, musicians, choir members and cantors, familiarize themselves with what the authoritative directives of the Church are. You should not wait for the diocese or the bishop to lead you by the hand. Part of the burden falls on you to take the initiative. Sure, it may take some work, but, it is work that is well worth it.

During my time at the Cathedral, we had regular meetings. When we hired a new cantor, I was in on the auditions with the rector. When we did hire the young woman who would eventually turn out to be the diocesan cantor, we took it upon ourselves to train her in liturgical style (she was a voice major in college and had been recommended to us by the Philharmonic chorale). She had a great love for singing in Latin and, because she was also studying to be a music teacher, she was also able to work with the children’s choir and help them. Was it easy having to attend every Mass for a month of Sundays to make sure that she was doing what she needed to do? No. To top it off, I never got paid for any of this, not that I am complaining, but, I was (and still am) willing to make a sacrifice so as to improve the quality of liturgy wherever I am.

Cat, it’s not just about selecting music and playing it. You need to do a lot more than that. Studying the documents will help you realize where you are right and where you are wrong. It will also give you a better handle on what is appropriate for the Mass and what is not and why the Church treats this matter very seriously.

Rather than just simplly fall back on obedience, it is better for us to do our part to ensure that every aspect of the liturgy, music, especially is done correctly and properly, as the Church wants for us to do it.

 

[MetalMark]

Your tone about getting worked up over the Mass, as I read it, indicated that perhaps you did not think that this was a worthwhile concern. It was actually worthwhile for many of the faithful in the early days of the Church, including Pope St. Gregory the Great who promulgatged the chant that bears his name and who sought to purify the liturgy.

I’m fine with getting worked up over the Mass if something seriously wrong is going on at Mass. Guitars are a minor issue and we shouldn’t worry about it like would with something extremely serious.

 

[Bluegoat]

Hey, thanks for the good defense, but I’m still reeling over here from the possibility that my bishop is not to be trusted.

This has not been a good day for me. I fell down last night at the local Labor Day Music Festival (knee gave out and just folded like a piece of origami) and I landed on concrete on both of my poor knees, and today, I ache all over, especially my hands and wrists.

And then to wake up (before work, yes, on Saturday) and discover that my bishop is wrong about pianos and is allowing something to continue in his diocese that is against the official teachings of the Catholic Church–well, I just want to go to bed and sleep for several weeks.

I’m not exaggerating. Trust is a HUGE HUGE problem for me, since we were kicked out of our Protestant church, and now to find out that my bishop (and most other bishops) are deceiving us all–well, so much for Catholicism. Who CAN be trusted!!! I guess the answer is me and Jesus.

keep in mind that Bishops have a lot on their plate, and so often delegate certain details - as benidictgal has indicated. Especially in areas they haven’t a lot of expertise on. Also, they do often give a certain amount of freedom to interpret directives according to the situation. In a very small community where a service was held in a hall with only a piano, it might be just fine for the piano to lead people in appropriate hymns, or even a guitar. But such freedoms can be a problem when people don’t have anyone to correct misunderstandings.

And even a Bishop with strong feelings about music is aware that suddenly imposing something new on people can be injurious to their faith - it is often better to proceed on such things slowly. And of course some just aren’t that interested on music - perhaps they have tin ears.

But I think perhaps you need to come to a new understanding of the authority, and fallibility, or Bishops. I have noticed it is very common for evangelicals who convert to be very big on authority - perhaps that is why they convert, and also it is a new discipline and so one that requires extra attention.

But Bishops can be mistaken, really wrong, negligent, or even sometimes actually immoral. Most fall into the category of being simply human, but I’m sure you can think of examples of the other kind too, alas.

So where does that leave an individual parishioner? Well, you still owe obedience to the Bishop, but also to God, the Church past and present and future, and even to your conscience. In a few cases it can even be appropriate to really take issue with the Bishop. As a parishioner, it is important that you learn what you can so as to understand what the Bishop says and what the Church says - it may occasionally come out that there is a discrepancy. In your field of expertise it is perhaps important you learn more than the average parishioner - if you are an altar guild person, a sub-deacon, a musician, then you need to know the details of what the Church teaches and understand them.

Perhaps in your area there is no one who is taking the initiative on making sure church music reflects the directives, or is overseeing individual churches musical programs, or oversees the training of new musicians. Perhaps that is something you could take on once you have learned more about it and talked with your Bishop, or at least point out a need for.

But you will need to do some reading and praying to come to terms with the possibility of bad bishops. I don’t think they are common, but your faith will be in danger if even the possibility will unhinge it. Authority, obedience, and human imperfection can be reconciled within Christ, but it can take some discerning to see just how that works.

In any case, don’t jump the gun and do anything rash. Faith is a process of revealing, because we see darkly. God gives us time so we can use it - it doesn’t all have to happen in a moment.

 

[pnewton]

You come from the Protestant background. You are used to the piano.

I was thinking of the positive fruits of ecumenism today and how this reflects. My own parish is nearly half converts from other faiths and most of the others are first generation to America. We simply do not represent the ideal of European Catholic culture. I wonder how much of the carry-over of the Protestant culture comes from those who convert as opposed to changing for the sake of being more Protestant. How can it be anything but good if ecumenism is from a sincere conversion to Catholicism and orthodoxy is maintained? We converts need to reach back and learn the traditional music of the Catholic Church so that all can be ministered to. I have to say, that as much as the parish I attend already was geared to the hispanic culture and the OCP type music, I have not learned and incorporated one single hymn except traditional Catholic hymns, English and Latin, that I lacked knowledge of. Thus, we can have a broad base that is representative of all cultures in my parish, hispanic, converts, catholics from birth.

I only say this because I believe that this is why subsidiarity works more often than not.

 

[Bluegoat]

I was thinking of the positive fruits of ecumenism today and how this reflects. My own parish is nearly half converts from other faiths and most of the others are first generation to America. We simply do not represent the ideal of European Catholic culture. I wonder how much of the carry-over of the Protestant culture comes from those who convert as opposed to changing for the sake of being more Protestant. How can it be anything but good if ecumenism is from a sincere conversion to Catholicism and orthodoxy is maintained? We converts need to reach back and learn the traditional music of the Catholic Church so that all can be ministered to. I have to say, that as much as the parish I attend already was geared to the hispanic culture and the OCP type music, I have not learned and incorporated one single hymn except traditional Catholic hymns, English and Latin, that I lacked knowledge of. Thus, we can have a broad base that is representative of all cultures in my parish, hispanic, converts, catholics from birth.

I only say this because I believe that this is why subsidiarity works more often than not.

In a way, one might say that Protestant converts are coming from another cultural experience, just as African or Asian Catholics may have different cultural understandings that effect what music is appropriate for them. In a church composed of people mostly of one cultural group, it is not to hard to look at what kind of music and instruments might be appropriate. In a mixed setting it can perhaps be more difficult, especially when the cultural mixture changes and people are asked to take in things that are different but work for the newcomers. In the case of newcomers from a Protestant background, unless a whole church converts, that is likely the situation.

And another difficulty is discerning whether the cultural norm for the group is something that should be taken in, or perhaps guarded against. It would really depend on the associations and meaning, but it can be difficult for someone from outside the group to assess that, and it can also be difficult for a new convert to assess it. An example of something to guard against might be “praise music” bands that promote a kind of emotional frenzy which are seen in some churches. OTOH, the Catholic Church in Africa considers some instruments and actions (dancing) appropriate in ways that would not be appropriate in most Western parishes.

 

[Cat]

Cat, first of all, before you start making acusatory statements, please read carefully what many of us have said and, with all due respect, devoid of emotion. Sometimes we let emotions get the better of us and we do not carefully read the objective.

You come from the Protestant background. You are used to the piano. However, I would ask that you read the authoritative documents of the Church which clearly indicated the importance of the proper instruments and proper formation of those involved in sacred music, inclusive of those who write the hymns and settings for the parts of the Mass.

Many parishes and dioceses put the onus on the liturgical teams and on those involved in music ministry to do their homework and read the documentations, the authoritative ones, issued by the Church. It is very important that anyone involved in liturgy, and this includes choir directors, musicians, choir members and cantors, familiarize themselves with what the authoritative directives of the Church are. You should not wait for the diocese or the bishop to lead you by the hand. Part of the burden falls on you to take the initiative. Sure, it may take some work, but, it is work that is well worth it.

During my time at the Cathedral, we had regular meetings. When we hired a new cantor, I was in on the auditions with the rector. When we did hire the young woman who would eventually turn out to be the diocesan cantor, we took it upon ourselves to train her in liturgical style (she was a voice major in college and had been recommended to us by the Philharmonic chorale). She had a great love for singing in Latin and, because she was also studying to be a music teacher, she was also able to work with the children’s choir and help them. Was it easy having to attend every Mass for a month of Sundays to make sure that she was doing what she needed to do? No. To top it off, I never got paid for any of this, not that I am complaining, but, I was (and still am) willing to make a sacrifice so as to improve the quality of liturgy wherever I am.

Cat, it’s not just about selecting music and playing it. You need to do a lot more than that. Studying the documents will help you realize where you are right and where you are wrong. It will also give you a better handle on what is appropriate for the Mass and what is not and why the Church treats this matter very seriously.

Rather than just simplly fall back on obedience, it is better for us to do our part to ensure that every aspect of the liturgy, music, especially is done correctly and properly, as the Church wants for us to do it.

benedictgal, do YOU agree with what FrancisB has researched and reported here–that pianos and guitars are forbidden in the Holy Mass?

He has done a lot of research, and his conclusion is logical.

I’ve never heard you say this about the piano or guitar. Is it true? I respect your knowledge and believe that you are very well-read.

BTW, I don’t select music. I never have, in Protestant or Catholic churches.

I’m just a piano player. I play what they tell me to play. If they told me not to play, I wouldn’t play.

I do not believe I ever will select music because that is not something I can do. I am not a leader. Never have been. I tried leading children’s choir for three years (Protestant church), and it grew from 24 kids to over 60 kids, but I got kicked out of the church. So now I associate leading with being kicked out, and I just can’t take that chance again. I’m not qualified.

I do select my own preludes and postludes from a collection of about eight books of traditional hymns arranged for the piano, and that means a lot of repeats over a year’s time. In the Catholic Church, I try to make certain that a prelude or postlude is appropriate for the particular time of year (e.g., it’s not appropriate during Advent or Lent). And I also try to match the prelude to the particular Feast Day, if appropriate.

 

[Renko]

I am a big fan of the organ. I feel this is a very good way to celebrate the mass. I wish the organist at my Church would play it more instead of the piano.

What do you think about pianos, guitars, and etc. in place of the organ?

Could anyone see these instruments as dangerous?

Some opinions that I have heard is that the guitar symbolizes a sinful musical genre (rock-and-roll) and the instrument is simply not reverent enough. I personally cannot see any problem with using these for worship as long as the tabernacle is not in the same room!!!

God Bless

I am not a fan of piano’s,guitars or any other instrument for mass except the organ. We have one organist who plays piano music during communion, and I think it is very disrespectful. He used to play boogie music during communion until a few members got up in arms about it and some even left the church, he no longer plays boogie, but still bangs away at the piano. Unreal!

 

[Cat]

keep in mind that Bishops have a lot on their plate, and so often delegate certain details - as benidictgal has indicated. Especially in areas they haven’t a lot of expertise on. Also, they do often give a certain amount of freedom to interpret directives according to the situation. In a very small community where a service was held in a hall with only a piano, it might be just fine for the piano to lead people in appropriate hymns, or even a guitar. But such freedoms can be a problem when people don’t have anyone to correct misunderstandings.

And even a Bishop with strong feelings about music is aware that suddenly imposing something new on people can be injurious to their faith - it is often better to proceed on such things slowly. And of course some just aren’t that interested on music - perhaps they have tin ears.

But I think perhaps you need to come to a new understanding of the authority, and fallibility, or Bishops. I have noticed it is very common for evangelicals who convert to be very big on authority - perhaps that is why they convert, and also it is a new discipline and so one that requires extra attention.

But Bishops can be mistaken, really wrong, negligent, or even sometimes actually immoral. Most fall into the category of being simply human, but I’m sure you can think of examples of the other kind too, alas.

So where does that leave an individual parishioner? Well, you still owe obedience to the Bishop, but also to God, the Church past and present and future, and even to your conscience. In a few cases it can even be appropriate to really take issue with the Bishop. As a parishioner, it is important that you learn what you can so as to understand what the Bishop says and what the Church says - it may occasionally come out that there is a discrepancy. In your field of expertise it is perhaps important you learn more than the average parishioner - if you are an altar guild person, a sub-deacon, a musician, then you need to know the details of what the Church teaches and understand them.

Perhaps in your area there is no one who is taking the initiative on making sure church music reflects the directives, or is overseeing individual churches musical programs, or oversees the training of new musicians. Perhaps that is something you could take on once you have learned more about it and talked with your Bishop, or at least point out a need for.

But you will need to do some reading and praying to come to terms with the possibility of bad bishops. I don’t think they are common, but your faith will be in danger if even the possibility will unhinge it. Authority, obedience, and human imperfection can be reconciled within Christ, but it can take some discerning to see just how that works.

In any case, don’t jump the gun and do anything rash. Faith is a process of revealing, because we see darkly. God gives us time so we can use it - it doesn’t all have to happen in a moment.

First of all, our Bishop, Thomas Doran, is not “bad.” Absolutely not, never, ever. Look him up on google. He’s one of the best in the U.S.

He and Bishop Burke are like twins. Bishop Doran is considered one of the most conservative and orthodox bishops in the U.S. He does not tolerate abuses in the OF Mass, AND under his leadership (and the bishops before him), we’ve had the TLM in several locations since the mid 1980s. When I first joined CAF, I was totally surprised that this isn’t the case all over the U.S. I thought every city had Latin Mass.

We have a surplus of vocations in our diocese.

He has his doctorate in Canon Law.

One sign that Bishop Doran is a “good” bishop is that all the liberal Catholics in town hate him. I’ve heard them call him some filthy names, names that Christians shouldn’t call their worst enemies.

Finally, Bishop Doran doesn’t tolerate the sedavacantist organizations, he actually DRIVES them out of the diocese through use of local laws, etc.

Back in the 1990s, I was very happily evangelical Protestant and extremely involved with many different ministries. I often worked a shift where I was able to hear Bishop Doran’s program on the radio, and back then, I KNEW that he was an apostle. I didn’t even know that such a thing as “apostolic succession” existed. I didn’t know anything much about Catholicism. But I KNEW that Bishop Doran was an apostle–I actually called him “an apostle” whenever I referred to him. I loved him and and I loved his talks on the radio–it was like listening to Jesus! I believe that he was one of the earliest persons to plant a seed in my heart that eventually grew to become a desire to become Catholic.

Pray for him–he had a tussle with cancer a few years back, and he’s STILL working! I love him and consider him the best shepherd that any Christian could have–to me, he’s a true representative of Jesus on this earth and the very idea that he could be “bad” is totally not true. A sinful man, yes–we all are. But when it comes to protecting his diocese, he would die for us rather than do the wrong thing by us.

Secondly, I don’t live in a small community. I live in a city of 150,000, 65 miles from Chicago. (Some people consider us a suburb, but we all deny that.)

And Bishop Doran has people on top of the liturgy and music in his diocese. Our diocese is extremely well-managed. (Surplus of vocations doesn’t happen when the management is slip-shod or haphazard.) The idea of me telling them what to do is kind of hilarious. It would be like me trying to tell an astronaut where the ignition is to start up the space shuttle!

Finally, as I mentioned in a post above, I will never lead others in music. I am just a piano player. I follow. I don’t even like to play solos and I never have, even when I was a child or a teenager. From the very beginning, starting in 3rd grade, I liked accompanying other people. I always work under the leadership of someone else. The one time I didn’t–I was in charge of a Children’s Choir–it grew tremendously in three years from 24 kids to over 60 kids. But my husband and I were kicked out of that church because of false accusations against me as choir director (none true–parents were always in the room with me during rehearsals, and they could vouch that there was no wrongdoing or improper teaching). So it is doubtful that I will ever take on a leadership role in the church. It’s just not something that the Holy Spirit has gifted me in. I’m a great follower, incredibly loyal and I will work my fingers down to the nubs for a good conductor or music director. But unless the Holy Spirit performs a miraculous work in me, I will never lead music in church.

Hopefully this post will help you to get to know me a little better and see that I’m not one of the “PARTY ON!” people who believes that anything goes in the Mass.

 

[CTA1967]

Mass is not a place where anyone should notice or care about musical performance. Lots of Catholic church musicians want to be seen and heard and applauded. Musicians usually have big egos. Performing music that is dictated to them, in a standard way, without being regarding whatsoever or admired by parishioners, is not appealing to them.

Okay, first of all, I feel compelled to point out that what this poster said was extremely uncalled for. If you actually got to know musicians personally, you would find that most of them are, in fact, not the monstrous egomaniacs you think they are. Many are humble and do not seek praise or attention for their talents.

But this thread got me wondering, what other instruments have been specifically mentioned in Church documents? I play the clarinet at mass. Seeing as it’s a fairly modern instrument, is it too “secular”? And does the ban on pianos and guitars really still apply, or is that something that isn’t in effect anymore like the ban on polyphony?

 

[Cat]

Okay, first of all, I feel compelled to point out that what this poster said was extremely uncalled for. If you actually got to know musicians personally, you would find that most of them are, in fact, not the monstrous egomaniacs you think they are. Many are humble and do not seek praise or attention for their talents.

But this thread got me wondering, what other instruments have been specifically mentioned in Church documents? I play the clarinet at mass. Seeing as it’s a fairly modern instrument, is it too “secular”? And does the ban on pianos and guitars really still apply, or is that something that isn’t in effect anymore like the ban on polyphony?

Just funnin’ with you here, CTA1967 – playing devil’s advocate, OK? I’ve heard all kinds of names associated with the clarinet, and most of them are not nice at all. If the piano is secular, then the clarinet is absolutely hellish.

Again, just funning–my husband’s ice dance partner is a professor of clarinet in a college, and my husband played the clarinet (he was pretty awful). It’s a lovely instrument and I can see it used in Mass. In a way, it IS used whenever the organ is played, whenever the organist uses the woodwind settings.

I’m not sure how effective a clarinet would be accompanying the congregational hymns. Does it work?

 

[CTA1967]

I’m not sure how effective a clarinet would be accompanying the congregational hymns. Does it work?

Well, considering how poorly the woodwinds and strings are amplified compared to the keyboard, we blend fairly well.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Just funnin’ with you here, CTA1967 – playing devil’s advocate, OK? I’ve heard all kinds of names associated with the clarinet, and most of them are not nice at all. If the piano is secular, then the clarinet is absolutely hellish.

Again, just funning–my husband’s ice dance partner is a professor of clarinet in a college, and my husband played the clarinet (he was pretty awful). It’s a lovely instrument and I can see it used in Mass. In a way, it IS used whenever the organ is played, whenever the organist uses the woodwind settings.

I’m not sure how effective a clarinet would be accompanying the congregational hymns. Does it work?

I would say the clarinet was hellish. Then came electricity and the clarinet could not compete with amplification and the brass body of saxophones. Now besides a few throwbacks playing for tourist in New Orleans the clarinet is angelic. Sounds like the history of the organ to me, but what do I know.

 

[CTA1967]

Okay, I don’t know if this means anything to anyone here, but I found this in a more recent Church document (1963):

1. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.

But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

While it does mention that instruments should be suitable for sacred use, this document does not specify any instrument except the pipe organ. And the “competent territorial authority” do have knowledge, and I assume consent, of pianos and clarinets and such in the St. Louis Archdiocese.

 

[benedictgal]

Okay, I don’t know if this means anything to anyone here, but I found this in a more recent Church document (1963):

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

While it does mention that instruments should be suitable for sacred use, this document does not specify any instrument except the pipe organ. And the “competent territorial authority” do have knowledge, and I assume consent, of pianos and clarinets and such in the St. Louis Archdiocese.

Actually, Musicam Sacram is the document, promulgated in 1967 by the Holy See, that is the more recent document. In fact, it is clearer than the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy because it specifically treats the issue of Sacred Music:

"The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin Church, since it is its traditional instrument, the sound of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lift up men’s minds to God and higher things.

"The use of other instruments may also be admitted in divine worship, given the decision and consent of the competent territorial authority, provided that the instruments are suitable for sacred use, or can be adapted to it, that they are in keeping with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful."43

1. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.44

This little provision is something, as I see it, that is conveniently disregarded by proponents of these kind of instruments (electric guitars, drum kits and the like).

 

[CTA1967]

Ah, thanks for the more recent quote. I was just comparing mine to the one earlier from Pope St Pius X, which specifically singled out certain instruments like piano and winds.

 

[rguntner]

I have been singing Tenor in the contemporary group at my church for about 18 years. My experience before this was in a more classical and traditional musical genre. I love both styles of music and have been blessed so far by being associated with so many talented singer and musicians. The bottom line is, any musical instrument is appropriate at mass as long as it is being played well! In my travels, I have heard some pretty awful music at mass and I can understand how it distracts from the worship experience. On the other hand, I’ve been to some masses where talented, well practiced and inspired musicians make worshiping at mass a very pleasant and spiritually powerful experience.
Just to let you know, I’m not just some young whippersnapper in my 20’s or 30’s. I will be 60 years old this Christmas. As a young boy, I was a Soprano in the Men and Boys choir at my church. I am well versed in all of the classical (Latin) Catholic music of pre-Vatican II and loved it all. I was in high school during Vatican II and my school was one of the first schools in the archdiocese to introduce folk and rock music at our masses. I must admit, most of that early music was pretty bad. As time has passed however, a very rich,beautiful and spiritual body of music has emerged. Now songs like " On Eagles Wings" and “We Are Called” are standards in most hymnals. I’m sure that their are many traditionalist out their that wouldn’t be caught dead at one of those “damn Hootenanny masses” or “Banjo Masses” as my uncle Carroll use to call them. It’s all a matter of personal taste. I’ve heard some pretty stinky organ playing in my day as well.So don’t blame the instrument or the music, blame the musician. I’m sure their are some churches in your area that have some decent contemporary music groups. Ask around and find out where they are and attend a mass there. Discover what a really talented contemporary music group sound like and how it can help facilitate your worship at mass.