What do you think about Harry Potter?

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marthax2:
I trust the bishops only when the Vatican of the Holy Father gives them the thumbs up.
I am not positive what the “Vatican of the Holy Father” is but I assume you mean the Curia at the Vatican and the Holy Father.

How about these news stories?

Vatican official has kind word for Harry Potter’s magical world
Vatican ‘no problems’ with Harry Potter
It’s not a sin to read Harry Potter, the Vatican declares.
 
For anyone who thinks Harry Potter can serve as a bona fide introduction to the occult, please visit here. Warning: Sense of humor required.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
There should be another choice: “I try not too…Harry is a twit!” 🙂
 
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ByzCath:
Wicca, while outside of the Christian world view, still worships powers and beings that are not God.
That is incorrect. I do worship God and Goddess. However, I also believe that there is only one ultimate Creator and that every religion only has different views of that one Creator.
Magic is not neutral.
Yes it is. I already explained why. It is the intent, not the magic itself. Perhaps from a Catholic perspective it is not neutral, but then, not everyone is Catholic.
 
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marthax2:
My lenthy quote of Merkle was intended to illustrate that her opinion is worth listening to because she was deep into new age and that (although, as I have been hearing in this forum, some people can dabble in it without apparent ill effects) getting involved with new age can be very dangerous.
You commented about how Meggies post was about only one individual. So is your story. Just because one is involved in the “occult” or “new age religions” does not mean bad things will happen to them. Bad things happen to all people regardless of religion and practices. I have been interested in the occult since a relatively young age, and have been practicing Wicca and studying witchcraft for about a year. No evil experiences here. Personally, I believe if one goes looking for expecting evil, they are going to find it. I am not looking for evil in my practices, so it is unlikely that I will encounter it.
 
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BlessedBe13:
I am not looking for evil in my practices, so it is unlikely that I will encounter it.
But quite likely to be blind to it when it is encountered.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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BlessedBe13:
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ByzCath:
Wicca, while outside of the Christian world view, still worships powers and beings that are not God.
That is incorrect. I do worship God and Goddess. However, I also believe that there is only one ultimate Creator and that every religion only has different views of that one Creator.
I agree that this is how you view it but that does not change the fact that it goes against Catholic Teaching (heck even Christian belief) to worship a God and Goddess, there is no such thing. There is only the Triune God.

This is why I stated that it is outside of the Christian world view.
Magic is not neutral.
Yes it is. I already explained why. It is the intent, not the magic itself. Perhaps from a Catholic perspective it is not neutral, but then, not everyone is Catholic.

Again, in your view. I am talking from a Catholic perspecive and I am sorry but this is a Catholic Forum.

Magic is not neutral. Here are the entries from the Catechism again.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.

I am sorry that you do not agree with this but, again, this is a Catholic Forum and I am a Catholic.
 
Very interesting stuff… I happen to have enjoyed reading the series thus far. I don’t think any adult would classify it as great literature. The plots are simplistic, the dialogue is so-so, etc. But in the past year, just for fun, I’ve picked up a few books by popular authors for “adults”, like John Grisham, Tami Hoag, and Iris Johansen, and what I found were books with simplistic plots, cheesy dialogue, and about a 4th grade writing level. I’ve also recently read a number of novels by Robert Ludlum… the plots and the writing aren’t quite as simplistic, but still lots of clunky dialogue, repetitive plotting, and the like. I think similar criticisms can be made of other popular authors that write for an “adult” audience, like James Patterson, Tom Clancy, and Michael Crichton. None of this stuff is great literature.

After reading a few pulpy books like that, I recently picked up “Heart of Darkness” by Joseph Conrad, and it really is amazing what a difference good writing makes. I could read a 500-page John Grisham novel in 6 hours, whereas it’s taking me much longer to go through “Heart of Darkness” (which is maybe 100 pages), because the writing is more complex, and there’s a lot more to read between the lines. But I can certainly appreciate a desire for both quick plot-driven page turners, and something that is more intellectually stimulating.

I also recently read “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy… I know critics debate the literary merits of this one, but it is definitely closer to being “literature” than is Harry Potter. I found Tolkien’s prose to be quite nice, with great use of imagery and descriptive language. There’s also more there on a symbolic level than you would find in Harry Potter or other contemporary pulp fiction. I think as a kid I would have found it tedious, but as an adult I really enjoyed it.
 
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ByzCath:
I agree that this is how you view it but that does not change the fact that it goes against Catholic Teaching (heck even Christian belief) to worship a God and Goddess, there is no such thing. There is only the Triune God.
I agree that is the Catholic opinion. But that does not make it true.
This is why I stated that it is outside of the Christian world view.
I do understand that, and that is true, but just because it is the Christian view does not necessarily make it correct.
Magic is not neutral. Here are the entries from the Catechism again.
I already read the entries. As I said before, it is a Christian view that magic is not neutral. But not everyone is Christian and being Christian does not necessarily make it right.
 
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mlchance:
But quite likely to be blind to it when it is encountered.

– Mark L. Chance.
And why is that? Just because I have not found evil in my practices does not mean I do not know what evil is.
 
Regarding magic and occult elements in Harry Potter… should we also protect children from reading or seeing *The Tempest? *Does communication with ghosts put Hamlet or Julius Caesar off limits? Julius Caesar also has elements of divination (“Beware the Ides of March”). And these are just examples off the top of my head where magic and occult elements are used significantly in a “neutral” or “good” context in Shakespeare. Certainly there’s also Macbeth and the witches, numerous other pieces with fairies and spirits and ghosts, references to astrology and the influence of the stars. But people don’t generally worry about Shakespeare influencing kids into the practice of the occult. Now, Harry Potter ain’t Shakespeare. But magical elements have been part of popular entertainment for a long time. I’m not that concerned, as long as the readership can distinguish between fantasy and reality, whether the fantasy is about a school for young witches and wizards in England, or a noble sorceror, banished to a desert isle, who summons storms and spirits to do his bidding.
 
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BlessedBe13:
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mlchance:
But quite likely to be blind to it when it is encountered.
– Mark L. Chance.
And why is that? Just because I have not found evil in my practices does not mean I do not know what evil is.
Actually I believe that is exactly what Mark was getting at.

You answer, “Just because I have not found evil in my practices does not mean I do not know what evil is.” is the definition of being Blind to Evil, at least to us Catholics/Christians. As what you do is inherently evil in our view.

If you do not or can not understand this then I do not really see why you post here at all.
 
Bobby Jim:
Regarding magic and occult elements in Harry Potter… should we also protect children from reading or seeing *The Tempest? *Does communication with ghosts put Hamlet or Julius Caesar off limits? Julius Caesar also has elements of divination (“Beware the Ides of March”). And these are just examples off the top of my head where magic and occult elements are used significantly in a “neutral” or “good” context in Shakespeare. Certainly there’s also Macbeth and the witches, numerous other pieces with fairies and spirits and ghosts, references to astrology and the influence of the stars. But people don’t generally worry about Shakespeare influencing kids into the practice of the occult. Now, Harry Potter ain’t Shakespeare. But magical elements have been part of popular entertainment for a long time. I’m not that concerned, as long as the readership can distinguish between fantasy and reality, whether the fantasy is about a school for young witches and wizards in England, or a noble sorceror, banished to a desert isle, who summons storms and spirits to do his bidding.
Bobby Jim,
I agree with you 100% but the main point I have been trying to make is that there are no magic and occult elements in Harry Potter.
 
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ByzCath:
As what you do is inherently evil in our view.

If you do not or can not understand this then I do not really see why you post here at all.
I completely understand that this is the Catholic point of view. My point is that it does not mean it is correct.
 
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blessedbe:
I completely understand that this is the Catholic point of view. My point is that it does not mean it is correct.
:yawn:

The young can be so deluded. I can say that, because I was young and deluded once.

:o
 
The young can be so deluded. I can say that, because I was young and deluded once.

:o
[/quote]

I would be deluded to believe that the Catholic Church is the only true faith just because it says so. If that were the case, I would have to believe that every other religion that says it is the one true faith also is, therefore meaning that there is no one true faith. I may be relatively young, but I’m not stupid. The Catholic Church can offer no more proof than any other religion that it is the one true faith, and so I would be deluded to just blindly follow it because the Church says so.
 
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BlessedBe13:
I completely understand that this is the Catholic point of view. My point is that it does not mean it is correct.
Just as much as your point of view does not mean it is correct.

Actually though, you are at a Catholic Forum and we do have the True Faith, so it does mean it is correct, as far as we are concerned.

So again I ask you, why do you post here?
 
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ByzCath:
Just as much as your point of view does not mean it is correct.
That is true, but just as you do not take your beliefs lightly, neither do I. I have seriously thought through everything that I believe in and through that have come to the conclusions I have. I believe my faith leaves room for spiritual growth rather than blind faith.
Actually though, you are at a Catholic Forum and we do have the True Faith, so it does mean it is correct, as far as we are concerned.
The part in bold is very much correct. I also have the True Faith, however. 🙂
So again I ask you, why do you post here?
I have already stated this several times. I enjoy discussions and both hearing and giving different points of view. I also post to clear up misconceptions that I see about my own faith.
 
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ByzCath:
Bobby Jim,
I agree with you 100% but the main point I have been trying to make is that there are no magic and occult elements in Harry Potter.
Meaning that magic as presented in Harry Potter is in no way similar to actual practices of the occult, and is not likely to influence kids to investigate actual practices? I would tend to agree with this, although I have little inside knowledge.

Actually I would guess that when someone develops an interest or active practice in the occult there’s a whole lot more at work than books they’ve read.

I guess to restate my point, there’s a long history of literature where magic and ghosts and fairies and such are presented in a fantasy context, with little connection to real occult practices, and I think Harry Potter fits into this tradition, and is not so problematic when viewed in this context.
 
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