What do YOU think about Us Catholics and our veneration of Mary

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FloridaAngler said:
I don’t really care, as it’s not my place to tell other religions what to believe. I just wish you’d be honest about it and call it worship, which it is.
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No, it is not, and you are wrong.

There is a reason why we always say, “Jesus, Have Mercy On Us” but say, “Holy Mary, Pray for us”.

Jesus is God. God and God Alone is the dispenser of mercy. We would not ask Mary to “have mercy on us” or to “forgive us our sins” or any number of other things we solely ask God.

We ask Mary to pray for us as the INTERCESSOR to God.

We pray to Mary to give us grace as the DISPENSER of God’s graces.

You sound like the average uninformed non-Catholic who sees people on their knees or lighting a candle and assumes all of that is always worship. It’s not.

And honestly, we have been over this same issue so many times, and there is so much about it on the Internet explaining the distinction, that I can only assume when someone starts up with this, that they are being willfully obtuse because they just don’t want to understand the truth.
 
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Sorry that you judge us guilty of idolatry. It is clear that you have been taught razor-thin, anti-Catholic theology. That, good sir, is a total shame.

Look up dulia, hyper-dulia and latria. Yes, there are differences and yes it is the Greek. I pray that your heart is open to both history and truth.

However, I must ask: By what authority do you judge the hearts of 1.5 billion fellow Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox?

Are they all, the greatest names in Christian history, 100% wrong, and you and your bible, 2000 years later, have it all right? That’s what Martin Luther convinced himself of - but you are not Lutheran!

Don’t you think there might be something else to all of this?
 
Who interprets your bible for you? Certainly, you do not claim that it self-interprets? That makes the bible a living, breathing thing. A god. To millions, this sounds like bible idolatry. Are you certain that you are not a bible idolater?

Just asking, because Fundamentalists and Evangelicals give what seems like worship to the bible. The Word of God is Jesus Christ, not the bible.

Read Matthew 12:36-37and ponder.
 
Yes, I am.

If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
 
FloridaAngler said:
Yes, I am.

If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
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That does not even address my question. These are different forms of adoration and veneration used by the Church. We do not give Mary the same respect as God. Did you not read what I posted?
 
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We worship God because it is right and just. God is worshipped because He is Almighty Creator and we are infinitely inferior creatures.

We venerate Mary because God willed that through her, His Son would be incarnate. Jesus = God. Mary = Mother of Jesus = Mother of God.

We venerate Mary because God raised her uniquely and specifically for our own salvation.

We venerate Mary because it is right and just.
 
I’m sorry you feel the Catholic Church and the Catholic schools that taught me did such a poor job in communicating Catholicism.

When did I judge anybody’s heart?
 
Actually, it addresses your question directly because it illustrates the fact that what you call a thing does not make a thing the thing you’re calling it.
 
Speaking as an ex Protestant I can think of a few things that non Catholics find objectionable to Catholics and their veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary…most ( not all) Protestants are Bible alone believers…they don’t see Mary as Catholics do but consider her veneration as a tradition made up by the Catholic church and not found in scripture…they see Catholics as being idol worshipers of Mary…they look at Catholic churches…Catholic festivals…Catholic statues…traditions… all celebrating the BVM…they hear Catholics talking about Mary as an intercessor or mediatrix…their Bible alone theology doesn’t allow for any worship but to God alone…and they believe that is what Catholics are not doing…they think we are worshiping Mary…and of course they see Catholics at Lourdes…Fatima…Catholic shrines etc…and many are weeping…on their knees…hands clasped together in prayer…and they say …look…Catholics do worship Mary…why aren’t they falling on their knees and worshiping Jesus instead of Mary…sadly much of it is misunderstanding on their part because of their Protestant theology…and some of it because of their dislike of the Catholic church
 
FloridaAngler said:
Actually, it addresses your question directly because it illustrates the fact that what you call a thing does not make a thing the thing you’re calling it.
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Fine. But FloridaAngler what I do not get is that when we say that we do not worship Mary as a god, and this is known throughout the Catholic world, you still claim that we do even though our worship of God is different from our veneration of Mary.
 
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FloridaAngler said:
I don’t really care, as it’s not my place to tell other religions what to believe. I just wish you’d be honest about it and call it worship, which it is.
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Placed by the grace of God, as God’s Mother, next to her Son, and exalted above all angels and men, Mary intervened in the mysteries of Christ and is justly honored by a special cult in the Church. Clearly from earliest times the Blessed Virgin is honored under the title of Mother of God, under whose protection the faithful took refuge in all their dangers and necessities.(Mk. 4, 26-29.) Hence after the Synod of Ephesus the cult of the people of God toward Mary wonderfully increased in veneration and love, in invocation and imitation, according to her own prophetic words: “All generations shall call me blessed, because He that is mighty hath done great things to me”.(Lk. 1, 48.) This cult, as it always existed, although it is altogether singular, differs essentially from the cult of adoration which is offered to the Incarnate Word, as well to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and it is most favorable to it. The various forms of piety toward the Mother of God, which the Church within the limits of sound and orthodox doctrine, according to the conditions of time and place, and the nature and ingenuity of the faithful has approved, bring it about that while the Mother is honored, the Son, through whom all things have their being (Col. 1, 15-16) and in whom it has pleased the Father that all fullness should dwell,(Col 1, 19) is rightly known, loved and glorified and that all His commands are observed.
–Lumen Gentium, Dogmatic Constitution of the Church
 
FloridaAngler said:
Because it meets all the Biblical descriptions of worship.
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How so?

And you never did answer my questions.

“Do you love and honor your Mother?”

“Do you worship her?”

And here’s another one.

What does “love and honor” mean to you?
 
gadarperets said:
Greetings all,

This is my first post.
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Welcome to the forum.
gadarperets said:
May I ask first why Mary is venerated and what you mean by veneration?
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The most profound reason is Luke 1

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?

46 And Mary[f] said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked with favor on the lowliness of his servant.
Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed;

The word veneration simply means to give great respect or reverence. The respect and reverence that Catholics give to Mary and the Saints is not of the same kind of respect or reverence given to God.
gadarperets said:
Perhaps I should add, what Scriptures do you use to teach she is to be venerated?
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Check this out


Hope it helps.

Welcome Again,

God Bless
 
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By declaring that something that is NOT worship to be worship. That is judgment.

We are called to freely admit that the Church has utterly failed in the past 50 years at catechesis. That failure does in no way affect truth - it reflects human failure. We try to correct that here. Read the catechism. It is 100% crystal clear. We shall worship God alone - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I think your problem is that you were not taught the concept of venerating saints.

Consider: Paul commands us to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Did he demand to be worshiped as an idol? Nonsense! He was setting himself as an example of faith to be imitated - a Saint.

You may reject the communion of Saints, one of the most ancient of Christian practices. Venerating Saints takes nothing - zip, zero, nada - away from your or my relationship with Christ.

It seems that, by your own standard, if you love your wife or children, that takes away from your love of Christ. I mean, you have to take your eyes, mind and heart OFF of Christ to love your family. Abandoning your Savior for the sake of adoring human beings. How can you do that?

Or, does this just sound silly?

Veneration. Look it up.
 
Scripturally, what was Elizabeth doing when she said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”

Did Scriptures say that Mary said, “No, no, don’t say things like that”? No, she responded with praise of God and yet also, “For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.”

To respond to Mary as Elizabeth did and as John the Baptist did in her womb is totally Scriptural. Our Lord’s praise of her corrected the idea that she is blessed merely for physically being his mother when he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” As Elizabeth recognized, that is what Mary did. Then, of course, on the cross Our Lord said, “Behold, your mother.”

It is all very Scriptural.
 
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