What do YOU think about Us Catholics and our veneration of Mary

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He’s welcome to do so. I referenced him in the post, so he’ll get a notification about it. It could be he has, or that it’s a miscommunication. If you were to reference something where he says so, it’s a chance for him to either acknowledge or clarify it.
 
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God himself limites their ability to understand the bible by imposing upon them the plague of ignorance.

Pjm opinion
 
I just put that in the search bar for this entire forum and came up with nothing. Where exactly did you get this from?
 
I googled it with Patrick miron. God limited their understanding with a plague of ignorance.
 
I googled it, and I think I found the blog you were talking about and about five others re-posting it. @PJM, do you have a blog that says that?
 
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PJM said:
Dear friend in Christ,

What do YOU think about us Catholics and our veneration of Mary?
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Truthfully, It’s something I’ve been struggling with lately. Maybe part of it is because I come from a protestant Evangelical background, but basically it’s because of a friend of mine who’s 89 years old and Mary is his life. I don’t have a problem with that, because I too have asked Mary to be my mother and I think she has helped me.

But some of the things my friend has said about Mary have taken me by surprise. And I’ve just downright disagreed with him on other things. But there are three main things:
  1. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. Yes, I know she carried Jesus within her. But I’ve studied the Ark extensively and that’s only one part of what the Ark is all about.
  2. My friend said that Mary IS The Temple. Yes, I know that Jesus’ presence rested in Mary, but scripture says that We are the Temple of The Holy Spirit.
  3. Now this one totally floored me: Jesus was formed in Mary’s womb and received Mary’s blood, so it is actually Mary’s blood that redeemed us.
I just keep thinking of the Old Testament verse in which God said, “My Glory I will not share with another” (Isaiah 42:8)

And I’m also remembering that my friend is 89 and is greatly loved by the Lord, but sometimes it’s hard for me not to react to some of the things he says.

Some of you may disagree with me–especially on the first one, but that’s OK. It’s where I’m at right now.
 
Fauken said:
And that the holy spirit prevents them because they are non Catholic’s
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I have never seen @PJM say anything like this. Can you produce a quote of him saying something to that effect [/quote said:
Actually I have said that [THANKS for sticking up for me]. And here is WHY

Over the years I have had many in-depth dialog s with Protestants, fervent, and knowledgeable in their faith.

Just two weeks ago I concluded such a dialog with a Pentecostal Minister. The grounding issue rest with the word “TRUTH”; they simply are unable {I Believe BLOCKED} from right understandings’; they simply are unable literally from right understanding.

Here are some examples:

After have proven that the Bible is a Catholic Book; the OT Chosen and guided by the Holy Spirit; by the Early Catholic Fathers; & the NT fully authored by men known to day to have been Catholics {including 5 Apostles}
Question: Where in the Bible is there evidence that Jesus or Yahweh ever DESIRED competing sets of faith beliefs or other gods. {Ignored}

Question: If the RCC is not the one true Church desired and founded by Jesus Christ, then which of the thousands of Protestant churches; EACH with its OWN set of faith beliefs is, and based on what evidence? {Ignored}

Can GOD tolerate more than just one set of Faith beliefs; and still be GOD? {All Good things Perfected} {Ignored}

“There cannot be your truth and my truth, or there would be n truth” Benedict XVI {Ignored}

How can all “Faiths” be acceptable to God? If this were even possible it would mean that God is OK with everyone having their own faith; even Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, Atheist & Agnostics. {Ignored}

2nd Peter 3: 14-18
So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures

2 Peter 1: 18-21
[20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost

Rom. 9:15 “For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Job.17: 4 “Since thou hast closed their minds to understanding, therefore thou wilt not let them triumph.

2nd. Cor. 4:3-4 “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God

Thanks so very much,
PJM
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And there you have it. Pjm admitted that is his belief.
Everyone has their justification for scripture interoperation.
Their is truth in believing their are holy spirit witness with signs and wonders following. Some times mark 16:16-20
 
evangelical said:
Yes you are right. It does appear as the strawman discussion.
As Patrick believes non catholics can not understand scripture correctly.
And that the holy spirit prevents them because they are non Catholic’s

But he has the correct understanding
Because catholics have the “real presence”
And the right interpretation

God bless
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As you believe this about Patrick, you believe the same of all Catholics. That we cannot understand Scripture correctly because we are not Protestants like you. You give that air of superiority in all of your posts.

Patrick has shown many times that he does understand Scripture. Whether it is because Patrick is Catholic, has the Real Presence of Christ or the “right interpretation” is not the issue. Patrick has studied Scripture. He also knows our Catholic beliefs and teachings.

As I have stated before, you seem to be determined to fight with Catholics about something or other. Catholics and Protestants disagree in many areas, evangelical. Yet, you seem determined to go further than simple disagreement. It would be better if you could find common ground between Catholics and Protestants instead of looking for a fight and trying to demean Catholics at every turn. Why don’t you ask the Holy Spirit to help you with that?
 
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“lilypadrees said:
evangelical said:
Yes you are right. It does appear as the strawman discussion.
As Patrick believes non catholics can not understand scripture correctly.
And that the holy spirit prevents them because they are non Catholic’s

But he has the correct understanding
Because catholics have the “real presence”
And the right interpretation

God bless
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As you believe this about Patrick, you believe the same of all Catholics. That we cannot understand Scripture correctly because we are not Protestants like you. You give that air of superiority in all of your posts.

Patrick has shown many times that he does understand Scripture. Whether it is because Patrick is Catholic, has the Real Presence of Christ or the “right interpretation” is not the issue. Patrick has studied Scripture. He also knows our Catholic beliefs and teachings.

As I have stated before, you seem to be determined to fight with Catholics about something or other. Catholics and Protestants disagree in many areas, evangelical. Yet, you seem determined to go further than simple disagreement. It would be better if you could find common ground between Catholics and Protestants instead of looking for a fight and trying to demean Catholics at every turn. Why don’t you ask the Holy Spirit to help you with that?
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I understand your concerns here lilypadrees, however to be fair we must also point out that Patrick also seems determined to go further than simple disagreement, seems to be looking for a fight and demeans non-Catholics at every turn. He also loves to word his op’s in a fashion that stimulates confusion and invites arguementative responses just like this post.
 
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PJM said:
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PJM:
Dear friend in Christ,

What do YOU think about us Catholics and our veneration of Mary?
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I WONDER WHY it is non- Catholics shed away from these kind of topics; topics posted in the NON-Catholic Forum section. As incredible as this may sound are they somehow embarrassed by their positions?

As the OP of this string I hoped to enter into a charitable discussion here.🙂

God Bless you,

Patrick
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The headline is worded in a way that indicates you want only Catholics respond. If you want charitable discussion then invite it charitably by not saying something demeaning like you just did above.
 
Wannano, do you feel this way about Patrick because of the question he asked as the title of this thread “What do YOU think about Us Catholics and our veneration of Mary”? Or is it all of his threads that make you feel this way?

As a Catholic, I don’t see it or any of the subject matter of his threads as an invitation to fight but merely to find out what Protestants really think about this and many of our Catholic beliefs. If I were still attending Protestant churches or if I were a Protestant who’d heard all these things about Catholics and didn’t know what to believe, I would welcome a thread like this where Catholics were willing to set the record straight. This subject would be one that concerned me too if I was a Protestant.

When I was a poster on Amazon’s forums, we Catholics were accused of many things by the Protestant posters. Had they merely asked or voiced their opinions and concerns instead of making the kind of comments that aren’t repeatable here, each side could’ve learned from one another and engaged in meaningful discussion instead of the bruhaha it turned into that eventually grew to such an extent that Amazon had no choice but to bring the forums down rather than continue to put up with all the hostilities.

Patrick’s threads, imo, are meant to be thought provoking and soul searching for both sides. They aren’t meant to be a free for all bar room brawl where nothing but accusations flow. At least, I don’t view them that way.
 
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PJM said:
I WONDER WHY it is non- Catholics shed away from these kind of topics; topics posted in the NON-Catholic Forum section. As incredible as this may sound are they somehow embarrassed by their positions?
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I don’t think you have a bunch of non Catholics on the boards…oops I am one but that’s changing!
 
lilypadrees said:
Wannano, do you feel this way about Patrick because of the question he asked as the title of this thread “What do YOU think about Us Catholics and our veneration of Mary”? Or is it all of his threads that make you feel this way?

As a Catholic, I don’t see it or any of the subject matter of his threads as an invitation to fight but merely to find out what Protestants really think about this and many of our Catholic beliefs. If I were still attending Protestant churches or if I were a Protestant who’d heard all these things about Catholics and didn’t know what to believe, I would welcome a thread like this where Catholics were willing to set the record straight. This subject would be one that concerned me too if I was a Protestant.

When I was a poster on Amazon’s forums, we Catholics were accused of many things by the Protestant posters. Had they merely asked or voiced their opinions and concerns instead of making the kind of comments that aren’t repeatable here, each side could’ve learned from one another and engaged in meaningful discussion instead of the bruhaha it turned into that eventually grew to such an extent that Amazon had no choice but to bring the forums down rather than continue to put up with all the hostilities.

Patrick’s threads, imo, are meant to be thought provoking and soul searching for both sides. They aren’t meant to be a free for all bar room brawl where nothing but accusations flow. At least, I don’t view them that way.
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Thank you for asking. I have had numerous battles with Patrick until I finally felt led to just let it lie. I believe he is on a mission to prove to the non-Catholics how they need to convert, even though I understand that proselytizing is against the rules. I find a lot of his writing confusing and hard to follow. I am sure he is a great guy and means well.

Sure let’s just look at this op. It is asking what do YOU think…who is “you” ? Everybody, or just Catholics or just Protestants? I would have taken it to mean every reader if the word “Us” was not in front of the word Catholics. Us Catholics seems to ask a question of fellow Catholics which I think the first responders felt as well. Then when he asks why the Protestants are not responding, he asks in a polemical way of indicating maybe they are not responding because they are embarassed of their positions. Is that method of dialogue a great way of opening discussion? Then when Protestants do enter and they answer the op question, the response is always a pouncing like a cat with a mouse to point out how much in error we are.

For me I just don’t bother anymore and maybe I should not have broken my resolution today.
 
Well it seems that those who pray to Mary. Like that option…
I have seen these Mary spirits.
And
exodus 20 : 3-6 was spoken to me by the Holy Spirit.

But others can pray to what spirit they want. It doesn’t matter to me.
 
Please define what you mean by “I have seen these Mary spirits” When and where did you see them?

As a devout Catholic, I haven’t seen any “Mary spirits.” Nor do I expect to. But that does not stop me from loving her because she is His mother.

If you doubt that Catholics have seen apparitions of the Blessed Virgin, what is your reasoning? You claim that the Holy Spirit speaks to you and shows you verses. Then why would you doubt a Catholic seeing an apparition of the Virgin Mary? Do you not believe that if Jesus willed His mother to appear to Bernadette, to the children at Fatima, to Juan Diego and to numerous other Catholics, that He would allow her to? (Whether she actually has or has not appeared isn’t the issue. That is up to the individual to decide for himself or herself.)

Point blank. What are your feelings about Catholics, evangelical? Do you believe we’re Christians or not?

I have asked you questions in various threads which you have refused to answer. I would appreciate you at least making the attempt to answer these.
 
Thank you for your response, Wannano. I appreciate you taking the time to answer .

When I first read the thread title (before I even opened the thread for the first time), I felt that because it was in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum, that it was meant for Protestants since a thread geared towards a specific denomination or religion, will usually be specified in the title (like the threads on Islam, Mormonism, JWs, etc).

I also thought the “Us Catholics” in the title could’ve meant USA Catholics since at the time, I was reading a lot of threads from posters in the UK and other parts of the world.

Would the thread title have been more easily clarified if Patrick had put the word “Protestants” before the rest of the thread title? Part of the reason I’m asking this is so that if I start threads in the future, I will remember to be more specific if necessary.

Thank you again for your considerate response. I enjoy having meaningful dialogue. And your posts give me much to ponder.

God bless you.
 
lilypadrees said:
Thank you for your response, Wannano. I appreciate you taking the time to answer .

When I first read the thread title (before I even opened the thread for the first time), I felt that because it was in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum, that it was meant for Protestants since a thread geared towards a specific denomination or religion, will usually be specified in the title (like the threads on Islam, Mormonism, JWs, etc).

I also thought the “Us Catholics” in the title could’ve meant USA Catholics since at the time, I was reading a lot of threads from posters in the UK and other parts of the world.

Would the thread title have been more easily clarified if Patrick had put the word “Protestants” before the rest of the thread title? Part of the reason I’m asking this is so that if I start threads in the future, I will remember to be more specific if necessary.

Thank you again for your considerate response. I enjoy having meaningful dialogue. And your posts give me much to ponder.

God bless you.
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Thanks lilypadrees, I appreciate that. Obviously some felt it was directed to Catholics and some thought to Protestants. First off, we should really drop the use of the word Protestant since many non-Catholics are not and were never Protestant. Non-Catholic Religions should include others other than Christians.

I think Patrick could have been more explicit in his asking. Actually, I am quite surprised he would not already know the answer to his question. I think in fairness to Pat it should be pointed out that numerous posters give a headline and then in the op give an explanation that doesn’t directly relate to the headline or title.
 
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