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JoshuaIsLord
Guest
Can you cite examples from the Bible?
Because all the examples, I have found have people prostrating themselves. Muslims perform better worship than Christians do.
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Autumn-Smoke
Guest
Thank you. Your reply, especially as a Marian Catechist, has been helpful. It’s good to be reassured and I appreciate that.
I have thought, too, that my never-married older friend is just so fully in love with Mary that he sees her as his everything. I understand. Mary has been quite good to him and has helped him through a lot. I believe my friend does see Jesus as his salvation, but he never talks about Jesus. Only about Mary. That bothers me as well.
I will always have a problem seeing Mary as the Ark of the Covenant though, but I try not to argue with my friend about this anymore. He is hard of hearing, so when we talk, I have to yell, and I feel it’s not appropriate.
My problem with this stems from my involvement in Messianic Judaism for over 20 years. I was with a group whose ministry it was to go into churches of all denominations and teach on the Feasts of Israel and how they find their fulfillment in Christ. I have helped to host and co-host several Messianic Passover meals–in Catholic and non-Catholic churches. If I had a “specialty” subject, it would be The Ark of the Covenant. So when I hear this vast teaching boiled down to “Mary is the Ark of the Covenant” (or even the New Covenant), I can hardly deal with this.
But that’s just me. Maybe I’ll have to live with this. I don’t know. I can’t help but speak out about this topic, though. I guess I might need to take your advice and…
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evangelical
Guest
Yes you are right. You are set in your ways. As I have experienced thus also.
As saint Paul encouraged be edified. Comfort exhorted.
Or as in romans 12. Be not conformed to this world morals and system. Be be transformed by the holy spirit.
As saint Paul encouraged be edified. Comfort exhorted.
Or as in romans 12. Be not conformed to this world morals and system. Be be transformed by the holy spirit.
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evangelical
Guest
Yes you are correct . people can believe wrong and can be taught wrong. This is why spiritual signs and wonders of the holy spirit will follow if we believe and apply the truth of Jesus command. And you will receive power from on high After you receive the holy spirit.
Its simple .
Its simple .
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lilypadrees
Guest
Are you speaking of Catholics in general? Many Protestants are set in their ways also. Sadly, until y’all are able to see that we are all (Catholic and Protestant) striving for Heaven. you will never see the truth and keep the walls of misunderstanding up.
At least, you admit that you believe Catholics cannot understand Scripture correctly because we aren’t Protestants like you and that you give that air of superiority in your posts. Do you believe that Catholics are Christians? Or do you believe like so many in Protestant churches, that Catholics cannot be Christians until they leave the Catholic Church?
I grew up with a Catholic father and a Protestant mother. And neither parent acted like they were better than the other because of differing beliefs. What my sisters, brothers and I were taught as children is that NO ONE is better than anyone else.
The Jesus Catholics worship, obey and follow is the same Jesus Protestants follow. The only difference is that Catholics take His words literally that the consecrated bread and wine truly become His Body and Blood. Protestants believe the bread and grape juice they receive in their communion remain bread and grape juice and that they are a symbol of remembrance only.
What is it that really troubles you about Catholics, evangelical? Is it our love for Mary, the mother of Jesus? Or is it really something else? Pray and search your heart, asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth of your feelings to you. And then please share them with us so that we can help you understand those things you’re unsure of or have been taught to believe that aren’t true.
You came to CAF for a reason. Was it so that you could learn more about your Catholic relatives beliefs? Or was something troubling you that you needed help with?
Please open up to us without the walls and shields. They aren’t needed here. We’re all people, most of the posters on CAF Christians who are trying to obey and follow Jesus and one day, enter Heaven where we will live with Him and our brothers and sisters in Christ forever.
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KyPerson
Guest
I look at it this way. I ask people in my parish to pray for me and I ask Mary to pray for me. Asking her to pray for me isn’t much different than asking a friend to pray for me.
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PJM
Guest
My friend; please read John 19: 25-28
Here is what it means
1 Jesus literally a few moments from his death; in excruciating PAIN, willfully gives the WORLD His Mother to be OUR Mother.
So a question for you" what kind of fidelity & LOVE are we to give to OUR Mothers? ; Should we not at least do the same for our Mother who happens to also be the very Mother of God.
2 WHY Did Jesus do this?
Jesus does this because as an all-knowing , loving and PERFECT God; that no one will be or can be MORE effective in leading Souls to Her Son Jesus than His Mother; nor can there be a more ardent or committed person to lead Souls to Jesus than Mary.
3 The final words is verse 28 are “I THIRST”; what is meant by these strange words?
This is SECONDS before DYING; and Jesus as GOD had to know this; so He was NOT in His final seconds on earth making a 100% turn around and thinking of HIMSELF; when for 3 years not one time did He do so. This last teaching was Jesus proclaiming to the WORLD that despite all that He already done; already suffered, He STILL desired to do more! This “MORE” is fulfilled in that Jesus left humanity
- His Catholic Church & One True Faith
- His Catholic Bible
- His Mother to also be OUR Mother as His emissary, His Beloved Mother to teach US how to LOVE Her Son.
Another question for you my friend
Just How can Abraham,. David or Moses {all sinful men BTW}, lead Souls to Jesus Christ; whom they were not even Blessed to known of? Mary is the only TRULY Perfect {fully human}Person {sinless from birth to death] that has inhabited plant earth.
And yes, I do realize that as a Protestant you many have difficulty with this TRUTH; but truth does not change simply because someone or even many choose to deny it.
God Bless you, PJM [The OP]
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PJM
Guest
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PJM
Guest
THE REPLY
REALLY?
Perhaps my friend it is because you are not reading the ORIGINAL Bible
2 Maccabees 12: 42-46 {Douay Bible} Douay-Rheims Bible, 2 Machabees Chapter 12
"[42] And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. [43] And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, [44] (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) [45] And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
[45] “With godliness”: Judas hoped that these men who died fighting for the cause of God and religion, might find mercy: either because they might be excused from mortal sin by ignorance; or might have repented of their sin, at least at their death.
[46] It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."
Then also PLEASE read John 20:31-32 & John 21: 24-25
May God Guide your path my friend, PJM
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PJM
Guest
THANKS and God Bless you, PJM
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PJM
Guest
Thanks my friend:grinning:
When I was still teaching young people {this particular year Jrs. & Seniors} in the classroom; we once were invited by a local Synagogue to join the for PASSOVER; the Seder meal and the ceremony was incredibly touching. After the meal we had a Q & A period.
Our Students then invited THEM to a Mass; after Mass we had refreshments and a Q & A period. These experiences did very much to enlighten both groups. GOD is Good.
In Catholic Theology; the expression “Mary is the Ark of the Covenant” is metaphorical; it means that Mary is the Mother of God who LIKE the ARK carried “God”; noting more.
What a wonderful and no doubt exciting Ministry you had.
God Bless you and thanks, PJM
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mcq72
Guest
Veneration being key , in that many say worship. I do not, but I will say that anything that gets in the way of a relationship with Him, in truth and spirit, could be considered an idol. So we are to honor Him with everything we are. If money gets in the way, or fame , or sport or tv ,gaming etc, that breaks that commandment. We have placed what may be good before that which is the best.
So while you may not worship Mary, and while it is good to honor, love, and be encouraged by her, applying that which is due the Holy Spirit, the Best, to her can be seen as idolatrous ( i hear this same term when discussing “bible only” folk, or" KJV only" folk). I mean many describe her as the best comforter and best intercessor…for me it is too close to descriptors for Deity.
Here is what Pope in 1854 said about her:
“Let all the children of the Catholic Church, who are so very dear to us, hear these words of ours. With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race. And since she has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, and is exalted above all the choirs of angels and saints, and even stands at the right hand of her only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, she presents our petitions in a most efficacious manner. What she asks, she obtains. Her pleas can never be unheard.”
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PJM
Guest
Thanks for sharing, but I’m n ot sure what your point was. {Sorry}
The top of your post seems to indicate that we Catholics are Idolaters; and the 1954 quotes proves that we are not.
Thanks for sharing, PJM [The OP"
The top of your post seems to indicate that we Catholics are Idolaters; and the 1954 quotes proves that we are not.
Thanks for sharing, PJM [The OP"
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Kei
Guest
Yes, the point of veneration of Mary is to get you closer to Christ.
If it has the opposite effect then cut it off, but it shouldn’t have the opposite effect.
She is our mother, for she is the mother of the whole Church. She is referred to as the spouse of the Holy spirit as she was and still is very close with the Holy Spirit. She is not the Holy Spirit, nor is she divine. But her intercession is very strong, as daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Ghost.
If it has the opposite effect then cut it off, but it shouldn’t have the opposite effect.
She is our mother, for she is the mother of the whole Church. She is referred to as the spouse of the Holy spirit as she was and still is very close with the Holy Spirit. She is not the Holy Spirit, nor is she divine. But her intercession is very strong, as daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Ghost.
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Kei
Guest
Which is why it is so important that God established an actual authority in this matter.
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Kei
Guest
And how do you get to Christ? How did the world come to Christ?
Answer: through the Holy Spirit and the Blessed Virgin.
It is that simple, but this is not a one time deal, but what can be done to every soul. Creation screams the Glory of God, both now and forever.
Answer: through the Holy Spirit and the Blessed Virgin.
It is that simple, but this is not a one time deal, but what can be done to every soul. Creation screams the Glory of God, both now and forever.
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mcq72
Guest
Well Kei, for me it is a one time deal…she said yes once,carried Him once, mothered His youth once,saw Him heal and die and resurect and ascend once…
Yes,Mary played her part, but I would not want to offend our Jewish brethren and their, our, HIStory, the very foundation that gave Mary, and Elizabeth on which to act out their most famous and glorious roles
ne to birth the Messiah, the other His heralder, no better man to be born
“Salvation is of the Jews.”, so said Christ.
He did not say salvation is of the HG and Mary to the woman at the well, though it be the crowning moment of Judaism
But i understand the CC’s position, placing her role, continuing role, above all apostles and patriarchs, at the right hand of the Throne, forever CoRedeemer.
As to how I met Christ…well for sure the Father must first draw one to His Son, thru the HolyGhost, and thru a preacher,thru members of the body, saints, on this side of eternity…all carriers of the promise,beginning with Adam/Eve,Naoh, Moses,Mary, the Apostles,successors down to today.
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Yes,Mary played her part, but I would not want to offend our Jewish brethren and their, our, HIStory, the very foundation that gave Mary, and Elizabeth on which to act out their most famous and glorious roles
ne to birth the Messiah, the other His heralder, no better man to be born“Salvation is of the Jews.”, so said Christ.
He did not say salvation is of the HG and Mary to the woman at the well, though it be the crowning moment of Judaism
But i understand the CC’s position, placing her role, continuing role, above all apostles and patriarchs, at the right hand of the Throne, forever CoRedeemer.
As to how I met Christ…well for sure the Father must first draw one to His Son, thru the HolyGhost, and thru a preacher,thru members of the body, saints, on this side of eternity…all carriers of the promise,beginning with Adam/Eve,Naoh, Moses,Mary, the Apostles,successors down to today.
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