What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

[Peter_J]

A lack of unity seems to highlight a lack of love for others who are different to ourselves; maybe we should look to the parable of the Good Samaritan for clues.

If Jesus was to give us the parable of the Good Samaritan today, he might change the names in the parable. A Catholic and Orthodox priest walked by on the other side of the road, and a Muslim came to the aid of the wounded man.

When we are too busy obeying the strict law of our doctrines, we seem to miss the greater human need. You have to feel sorry for the priest and the Levite in the parable, they were simply obeying the strict laws of their faith. If they tended the wounded man, they would become unclean and would be unable to perform their priestly duties for a while.

You have to ask the question, were did these strict laws for priests and Levites come from, and the answer has to be God, Jesus. Yet Jesus said to the lawyer, who did the right thing, and the lawyer said the one who showed mercy. It seems the lawyer could not bring himself to say the Samaritan or Muslim was the one who did right, our enemies name seems to stick in our throat at times.

It seems as if Jesus gave us strict Catholic doctrine, but we must be wise in how we apply it against others. When we stick too close to our strict Catholic laws, we seem to show a lack of love for others. The greatest commandments and the parable of the Good Samaritan should challenge how we choose to love others or not.

The priest and the Levite gave up their right to talk about their faith to the wounded man, because they walked on the other side.

The Samaritan, who earned the right to talk about his faith, chose not to say anything.

Why did Jesus put all these challenging issues into the greatest commandments and the parable of the Samaritan?

Eric

Great post, Eric Hyom.

 

[James1982]

i dont understand what you are talking about. what does what you are saying has to do with unity of Christians? what do you think that the CC have to do for unity. besides what she has done for all these years? has she not asked for forgiveness for what she has done and not done? what was the response from others? do you know?

Has it asked for forgiveness? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I’m just not aware of Catholic history enough to know if it came up in a council or some other publication.

what Church suffers more than the CC in this world?

I’m pretty sure at least the Orthodox Church has you beat there. First Constantinople falls, then athiestic Soviets effectively force them underground, followed by other eastern European nations doing the same. When the Catholic church has been driven out of Rome completely, and then driven underground in it’s next center of faith, then maybe its suffering will approach what the Orthodox faith has had to endure. That doesn’t even get into the Christians of all denominations who live today in countries like China where they are persecuted, and while some of those are indeed Catholics, it’s not a uniquely Catholic burden.

No, Rome has had it pretty darn good over the years comparatively.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Has it asked for forgiveness? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I’m just not aware of Catholic history enough to know if it came up in a council or some other publication.

I’m pretty sure at least the Orthodox Church has you beat there. First Constantinople falls, then athiestic Soviets effectively force them underground, followed by other eastern European nations doing the same. When the Catholic church has been driven out of Rome completely, and then driven underground in it’s next center of faith, then maybe its suffering will approach what the Orthodox faith has had to endure. That doesn’t even get into the Christians of all denominations who live today in countries like China where they are persecuted, and while some of those are indeed Catholics, it’s not a uniquely Catholic burden.

No, Rome has had it pretty darn good over the years comparatively.

get serious, would you. that is true, you know nothing about the Catholic history.

 

[Agabriel]

Interesting. But I didn’t realize the Catholic Church is losing a lot of people owing to unfriendliness. Do you happen to know which denomination those people generally head for?

Wonderingly,
Mick

Europe has lost a lot, and Catholics have been having a down turn also. I have read it.

usually they go secular, but some are going to Islam (gag). Look at me - I was looking at other denominations, even Buddhism at one point.

It isn’t so much unfriendliness, maybe that is the wrong word - it is the lack of community. I don’t really know why they leave or don’t go to Church. There is a disconnect.

When I talk to my Catholic friends they just ho hum about Church. None of them go. I can’t get them to go.

I don’t know what is happening. It seems like there are greater minds than mine that could do some brainstorming on this and I wonder why they haven’t.

One thing I like about Fox news is they have a priest on there every so often for his viewpoint. I like that. It is a kind of ‘face’ time that we rarely get. I watch EWTN also and that was a good idea to get a Catholic channel.

I think they need to start standing up for what is right and when we get bashed stop just accepting it. I don’t think the Pope should be kissing a Quran!!! If he read it he would find out why he shouldn’t be kissing it! this disgusted me more than I can say. They concede/tolerate nothing - not even letting up on the persecution of ANY non-muslim in their lands - and then our Pope kisses their Quran.

right now there is an attack on all Christians by the secularists and we should be insisting on more face time, equality, on TV. Or saying that they need to stop their attacks because that is hate speech. Standing up for ourselves is not a sin.

This latest row with Notre Dame allowing a VERY pro-abortion president on their campus is another assault. What do Catholics stand for if they cannot make a stand in this area!?

Oh well, I could go on, but I really have to go right now.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Europe has lost a lot, and Catholics have been having a down turn also. I have read it.

usually they go secular, but some are going to Islam (gag). Look at me - I was looking at other denominations, even Buddhism at one point.

It isn’t so much unfriendliness, maybe that is the wrong word - it is the lack of community. I don’t really know why they leave or don’t go to Church. There is a disconnect.

When I talk to my Catholic friends they just ho hum about Church. None of them go. I can’t get them to go.

I don’t know what is happening. It seems like there are greater minds than mine that could do some brainstorming on this and I wonder why they haven’t.

One thing I like about Fox news is they have a priest on there every so often for his viewpoint. I like that. It is a kind of ‘face’ time that we rarely get. I watch EWTN also and that was a good idea to get a Catholic channel.

I think they need to start standing up for what is right and when we get bashed stop just accepting it. I don’t think the Pope should be kissing a Quran!!! If he read it he would find out why he shouldn’t be kissing it! this disgusted me more than I can say. They concede/tolerate nothing - not even letting up on the persecution of ANY non-muslim in their lands - and then our Pope kisses their Quran.

right now there is an attack on all Christians by the secularists and we should be insisting on more face time, equality, on TV. Or saying that they need to stop their attacks because that is hate speech. Standing up for ourselves is not a sin.

This latest row with Notre Dame allowing a VERY pro-abortion president on their campus is another assault. What do Catholics stand for if they cannot make a stand in this area!?

Oh well, I could go on, but I really have to go right now.

Agabriel dont worry so much about these things. how many times the Church has gone through hard times. when the time is right our Lord will take care of those who are desecrating His Church. people tend to shy away from conspiracy. i dont. i am not afraid of this. i truly believe there is a conspiracy going within the Church to bring down the House of our Lord. the conspirators probably dont realize this themselves since that is how the devil works. just remember judas tought he was doing a great thing but later he realized how wrong he was and out of remorse killed himself. just stand still know that our God with us through these hard times. He will hear the voices of those crying and suffering souls in the Church.

 

[pickguard1]

Agabriel,

I think what the major problem is, is that while democracy is a wonderful blessing in some respects, it can be a poison pill in others. “Mob rule” often tends to the lowest common denominator, and we are witnessing this as we speak. There is always a group (whether large or small) within any democratic society that would like to see the Church conform more to society. This is because the Church doesn’t change on doctrine, while in the exterior politial arena, anything is pretty much up for grabs by whatever group can muster 50% + 1 vote. Since the culture is so dominant, people have a hard time letting that go when it comes to their faith. So many want it “my way” rather than “Thy way.”
Let’s face it, there is a lot of pressure to conform to our culture (at least in the US) even amid all the cries of “diversity” and “independence.” Once one generation submits to this philosophy of living, it’s hard to get the next one back, since they haven’t had the exposure to the faith that they should have and get more entrenched in the “me me me” thinking. (I’m definitley a member of the latter generation, although trying to claw my way out!)

Sometimes it seems as if the only solution will be when this society collapses under its own depravity (just like the Greeks, just like the Romans, just like countless others) and then a renaissance of Faith may rise from the ashes.

 

[Bob_McKissick]

To paraphase GKC, “The obstacle to unity between Catholics and non-catholics is, ME!” But I would add that the other obstacle is the total lack of a single authority within the non-catholic community for Catholics to approach. Unity, as I see it, will come one conversion at a time as is the case with the Lutherans or Episcopalians, etc., who trickle in one at a time, in small groups and rarely a whole segment at a time. Outside of an intervention of God by some wonderful miracle for the world to see there is no human way unity can come swiftly.

 

[dougfreed]

Is it,

a) Disagreement as to whether salvation is an event or a process?
b) Disagreement about the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception?
c) Disagreement about praying for the dead?
d) Disagreement about the existence of purgatory?
e) Disagreement about how to understand baptism?
f) Disagreement about the doctrine of Transubstantiation?
g) Disagreement about confession of one’s sins being heard by a priest?
h) Disagreement about the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God?
i) Disagreement about the papacy and papal infallibility?
j) Some other doctrine or factor?

Curiously,
Mick

Does it really matter what we disagree on. WE should all realize that there are many parts of THE CHURCH and CHRIST is THE HEAD. We, me being one need to work on our short coming of judgement. GOD will judge us all in our time.
Doug

 

[pickguard1]

To paraphase GKC, “The obstacle to unity between Catholics and non-catholics is, ME!” But I would add that the other obstacle is the total lack of a single authority within the non-catholic community for Catholics to approach. Unity, as I see it, will come one conversion at a time as is the case with the Lutherans or Episcopalians, etc., who trickle in one at a time, in small groups and rarely a whole segment at a time. Outside of an intervention of God by some wonderful miracle for the world to see there is no human way unity can come swiftly.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting. But I didn’t realize the Catholic Church is losing a lot of people owing to unfriendliness. Do you happen to know which denomination those people generally head for?

Wonderingly,
Mick

I don’t think we lose well-catechized Catholics because of unfriendliness (and it’s not really unfriendliness, but more of just a natural shyness, and a culture steeped in minding one’s own business, with Catholics - after all, with gossip being considered a mortal sin, there’s not much beyond the weather and sports scores to talk about with people you don’t know very well, yet) but rather, people who might otherwise have converted, and people who might otherwise have started coming back to Church after a long absence.

We do need to become more friendly and approachable, and one way to do that is to make a point of saying something pleasant to at least one person each Sunday that you have never spoken to before, and to make a point of getting caught up with at least four people with whom you are acquainted, without being “cliquey” - obviously not while at Mass, but after Mass is over, either on the way out to the parking lot, or else at the coffee hour.

But if we are feeling left out, and like nobody is approaching us, we need to take our own initiative, as well - most of the time, those who say that the Church is unfriendly, never stay for the coffee hour, and never attend social events at the parish.

One time I went to a parish I had never been to before, and nobody at all said “hello” to me, so I started going around at the coffee hour and saying to random people, “Welcome to “…” parish, I’m glad to see you here.” I was amazed at the amount of positive reaction I got to that; one person said to me, “I have been coming here for fifty years, and you are the first person ever to have welcomed me,” and I said, “Really? This is my very first Sunday here,” and we had a good laugh about it.

 

[James1982]

get serious, would you. that is true, you know nothing about the Catholic history.

Why not explain it to the dumb protestant then?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Why not explain it to the dumb protestant then?

why? i am sure if you are interested you will find a way of learning.

besides, what i said is part of it. yet, your answer was that what i said was not true.

:byzsoc:

 

[RonaldH]

Mick, you asked if I wanted to expand on my statement of “truth”. I do not want to be arguementative. I’m afraid that I see far too many very deep and grave obstacles and the biggest is that I have the impression that it is the non-Catholic people that the Catholic Church wants to absorb under it’s wings. I, being raised Catholic and now no longer so see things differently. My standard of truth is Sola Scriptura and in other forums they ridicule this attitude and I personally have had them call me a heretic because of it. Well there you go. No basis for unity I’m sorry. His Word is truth, your church think’s IT is. An honest look at both will see why both are not possible.

 

[Agabriel]

Agabriel dont worry so much about these things. how many times the Church has gone through hard times. when the time is right our Lord will take care of those who are desecrating His Church. people tend to shy away from conspiracy. i dont. i am not afraid of this. i truly believe there is a conspiracy going within the Church to bring down the House of our Lord. the conspirators probably dont realize this themselves since that is how the devil works. just remember judas tought he was doing a great thing but later he realized how wrong he was and out of remorse killed himself. just stand still know that our God with us through these hard times. He will hear the voices of those crying and suffering souls in the Church.

Thanks. I guess I do worry.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

An honest look at both will see why both are not possible.

‘Honest’ is the key word:

His Word is truth, your church think’s IT is.

This is not honest. The Church does not claim to be the ‘truth’, Christ is the Truth. The Church does however affirm the Biblical concept of it being, “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” 1 Tim 3:15

You are bearing false witness.

God bless

 

[SSTeacher]

I don’t think the Pope should be kissing a Quran!!!

Why not? He was simply showing respect.

If he read it he would find out why he shouldn’t be kissing it!

I daresay all the modern popes have read the Qur’an. Have you read it?

this disgusted me more than I can say.

Perhaps you’d care to explain why.

Respectfully,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

i truly believe there is a conspiracy going within the Church to bring down the House of our Lord.

Would you care to enlarge?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

Does it really matter what we disagree on.
Doug

Hi Doug,

It’s at least relevant, I’d have thought.

Cordially,
Mick

 

[SSTeacher]

I don’t think we lose well-catechized Catholics because of unfriendliness (and it’s not really unfriendliness, but more of just a natural shyness, and a culture steeped in minding one’s own business, with Catholics - after all, with gossip being considered a mortal sin, there’s not much beyond the weather and sports scores to talk about with people you don’t know very well, yet) but rather, people who might otherwise have converted, and people who might otherwise have started coming back to Church after a long absence.

Is the categorization of gossip as a mortal sin a formal teaching of the Catholic Church?

We do need to become more friendly and approachable, and one way to do that is to make a point of saying something pleasant to at least one person each Sunday that you have never spoken to before, and to make a point of getting caught up with at least four people with whom you are acquainted, without being “cliquey” - obviously not while at Mass, but after Mass is over, either on the way out to the parking lot, or else at the coffee hour.

Well said.

But if we are feeling left out, and like nobody is approaching us, we need to take our own initiative, as well - most of the time, those who say that the Church is unfriendly, never stay for the coffee hour, and never attend social events at the parish.

I’d imagine that this scenario is common throughout Christendom.

One time I went to a parish I had never been to before, and nobody at all said “hello” to me, so I started going around at the coffee hour and saying to random people, “Welcome to “…” parish, I’m glad to see you here.” I was amazed at the amount of positive reaction I got to that; one person said to me, “I have been coming here for fifty years, and you are the first person ever to have welcomed me,” and I said, “Really? This is my very first Sunday here,” and we had a good laugh about it.

Brave and brilliant!

Thanks for your engaging contribution.

Appreciatively,
Mick

 

[Bob_McKissick]

Mick, you asked if I wanted to expand on my statement of “truth”. I do not want to be arguementative. I’m afraid that I see far too many very deep and grave obstacles and the biggest is that I have the impression that it is the non-Catholic people that the Catholic Church wants to absorb under it’s wings. I, being raised Catholic and now no longer so see things differently. My standard of truth is Sola Scriptura and in other forums they ridicule this attitude and I personally have had them call me a heretic because of it. Well there you go. No basis for unity I’m sorry. His Word is truth, your church think’s IT is. An honest look at both will see why both are not possible.

Dear Ronaldh: I’ve suggested this before, but here goes again. Which came first the Synagog or the First Covenant? And which came first the Church or the New Covenant? The answer to both is the Synagog and the Church came first. If this is so how can the Church be based on the Bible when the Church came before the Bible. It logically, scripturally, Traditionally and Magisterially can’t follow. His Word is Christ and Christ is Truth and Christ said that His Church is His Mystical Body. Had Sola Scriptura been the way to God Christ would have immediately brought forth the printing press. Say a prayer for me and I will be saying one for you.