What do you think of a guitar Mass?

[pnewton]

Actually, the CDWDS removed the issue of musical instruments from the purview of the local bishop. In its 2001 letter to the USCCB concerning adaptations to the GIRM, the CDWDS noted the following:

Thank you. I was unaware of that. However, the intro clause is “in cases where…” and “may” is used. So has the USCCB enacted any such listing of instruments? If not, then I do not think this applies, but then I am no canon lawyer. On a side note, I find it interesting that this is one of the first times I have ever seen an national ecclessial body actually given specific authority. So much for the idea that they have no real authority and are advisory only.

Regarding the point that you raised about inculturation, it applies more along the lines of indigenous peoples and not necessarily Protestant ecclesial communities.

I know. However, I am indigenous. How many centuries does it take for a people to be considered indigenous? I still think the principle applies. Look at the leeway give Anglican use parishes where the whole Church converts.

 

[pnewton]

I had a lot of misgivings about being a part of this thread because it is a polemical and highly charged subject. It seems that those who hold a Tradtional viewpoint, formed by reading and studying not only the documents of the Church, but, its history of Sacred Music and the writings of the Supreme Pontiffs are either maligned, ridiculed or accused of being disobedient, or worse, of inciting disobedience simply because we are trying to be faithful to the Church’s intent and definition…

But failing to listen to valid comments, making false accusations, harrassing and ridiculing those who have opinions different than their own and then claiming to be the victim are not things that are becoming of true defenders.

I have to agree with Zab on this one. If you look back through, the first nastiness was made about guitars in Mass, not about a Traditional viewpoint. Unfortunate, something we all forget here is that we reflect poorly on our Savior when we dish out what we get instead of turning the other cheek. This is another good reason to decline response to a post. (see above post). In my opinion, this is one of the nicer threads on the subject.

 

[At_Trent]

At Trent, GeryTaylor:

God prefers Gibson

Login

What would Orville do ?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[At_Trent]

Hey easy on the Black Strats…lol

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/guitargary335/Snapshot_20100528.jpg

Sweet ! I have one too

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Pregustator]

I feel about playing guitars at Mass the same way I feel about wearing bell-bottom jeans at a wedding. It’s out of place and outdated.

 

[JHow]

My take on guitars in church, is they usually need to be amplified a…

I second this thought. Even amplified, the guy with the 12-string Martin at my parish is more than covered by the organ or piano and the choir. I can see him up there, but he adds very little to the mix. I have heard solo classical guitar with a mic that worked pretty well, but it was not accompanied by voice, just solo.

I play a little guitar (not in church), but even I didn’t miss the folks singers when they finally got the boot - the music was bad, dated, poorly executed.

 

[JHow]

Perhaps you can explain how the guitar can be made sacred, when its primary use has been for popular music, which is pretty much antithetical to sacred.

Why don’t you spin Christopher Parkening’s Bach recordings and see if you don’t see a glimmer of hope for the guitar in sacred music?

 

[PatriceA]

I feel about playing guitars at Mass the same way I feel about wearing bell-bottom jeans at a wedding. It’s out of place and outdated.

What if the wedding party actually chose bell-bottom jeans and that was the attire stated on the invitation for the dress code for all attending?

Maybe you would prefer a more formal attire and maybe another couple getting married prefer something more casual. None of it should take away from the blessings in the sacrament. The same can be said for some that prefer a more casual music setting for the mass, when it is appropriate to do so.

 

[elgar]

Why don’t you spin Christopher Parkening’s Bach recordings and see if you don’t see a glimmer of hope for the guitar in sacred music?

The topic is “guitar Mass”. I’m a huge fan of classical guitar and Bach. I had a music counterpoint professor once say, the music of J.S. Bach is so absolute you could play it successfully on a “sweet potato”.

By guitar Mass, I envision guitars being strummed accompaning (or trying to lead) congregational singing and the ordinary of the Mass. Correct me if I’m off course here.

 

[JHow]

This is an interesting thread, because I am torn. On one hand I think in theory, there is no reason guitar music can’t be used for a sacred purpose. I have heard good classical guitar music in church that works fine, IMO. On the other hand, the music needs to be good (it often isn’t), played well, the style needs to be appropriate (“Sweet Little Angel” is not gonna cut it.). I can see that some instruments are certainly not appropriate for mass: kazoo, tinwhistle, noseflute, probably banjo (sorry Allison, sorry Union Station!), theremin - other instruments, in the right hands, however, should be able to make the grade. I could conceive of bagpipes in scotland possibly working, maybe all drums in africa. It’s like if you said about graphic arts that crayons are a low art form, not suitable for sacred books, and then someone really good comes along and shows you how its done. I think that’s where I end up: show up with your absolute best, have it serve the worship service, don’t bring it a second time if it doesn’t work.

 

[JHow]

By guitar Mass, I envision guitars being strummed accompaning (or trying to lead) congregational singing and the ordinary of the Mass. Correct me if I’m off course here.

No I think you are right. I am probably off topic slightly. I think the orginal post is referring to should we have mass parts (Agnus Dei, etc.) played or accompanied by guitars, as opposed to just inserting a guitar piece for the offertory or elsewhere.

 

[JHow]

Okay one last dig at this:

I’m surprised no one yet brought up the “U2- charists” that are now being done in some churches.

 

[MarkThompson]

Okay one last dig at this:

I’m surprised no one yet brought up the “U2- charists” that are now being done in some churches.

Isn’t that just an Episcopalian thing? I’ve never heard of it in a Catholic church.

 

[JHow]

If it is suitable for worship why was it NEVER used for worship before the 1970’s?

Because the un-amplified guitar is an anemic thing? Until you get amps, guitars just did rhythm parts. Guitars were practice instruments, portable pianos, if you will, in classical times. Even classical guitar really only projects under ideal conditions (concert hall, quiet crowd, good technique).

 

[StTommyMore]

Because the un-amplified guitar is an anemic thing? Until you get amps, guitars just did rhythm parts. Guitars were practice instruments, portable pianos, if you will, in classical times. Even classical guitar really only projects under ideal conditions (concert hall, quiet crowd, good technique).

That is a poor excuse. I think it would be because guitars were recognized as secular instruments

 

[JHow]

Isn’t that just an Episcopalian thing? I’ve never heard of it in a Catholic church.

The only ones that I heard of were not Catholic either, but its taking the guitar-worship concept out there, isn’t it? I figured some posters might hold it up as an example (or bad example).

 

[JHow]

That is a poor excuse. I think it would be because guitars were recognized as secular instruments

I don’t necessarily disagree that the guitar is a secular instrument, and that may be the best objection to it, but my observation is a practical one.

Listen to any recording where a guitar is playing with other instruments (any bluegrass tune will do), the guitar has trouble standing out against a violin or banjo. Listen to the parts it plays, cut-time chords until its gets a break and the fiddle and banjo shut up.

In my church every Sunday there is a guy with a 12-string martin playing against the piano and the choir, he has a mic pointed at the soundhole of his guitar, but you cannot hear him at all. Now maybe they need to turn him up a bit, but un-amplified he doesn’t stand a chance.

Here. Maybe your local guitarist just needs to play better:

youtube.com/watch?v=3KHk_JNVpvw&feature=related

 

[diggerdomer]

So where did SC give blanket permission to do whatever you want with Sacred Music? Oh that’s right, it didn’t.

Yes, of course it didn’t. But it also did not prevent or preclude the Church (and the Holy Spirit) from guiding people to use different instruments, settings, etc., than had been used in the past 400 years.

Where did the Church or Vatican II say guitars (or any other instrument) are not acceptable for Divine Worship?

When King David prayed the psalms…did an organ accompany him?

 

[diggerdomer]

I have weighed in on the side of no guitars in Mass. I would like to clarify something. I have no problems whatsoever with guitars used in non-liturgical forms of worship (prayer services, praise and worship, etc). What I mean is that while guitars have no place in the Mass, they are suitable for use outside the liturgy.

Your preferences are valuable and important.

But…the point is…what does the Catholic Church teach? Can you recognize that your preferences are just that, and not part of Catholic teaching?

 

[Newbie2]

I feel about playing guitars at Mass the same way I feel about wearing bell-bottom jeans at a wedding. It’s out of place and outdated.

Outdated in what sense? If the organ’s use in liturgy dates back further than that of the guitar, couldn’t the same “outdated” argument be made against the organ?

That is a poor excuse. I think it would be because guitars were recognized as secular instruments

Your preferences are valuable and important.

But…the point is…what does the Catholic Church teach? Can you recognize that your preferences are just that, and not part of Catholic teaching?

Yeah, I don’t get “secular” instrument vs. “sacred” instrument. It’s not like there is a list somewhere…organ, yes…guitar, no…didgeridoo, no…Jews harp, no…kazoo, no…