What do you think of Catholic women wearing the Islamic headscarf?

[jakasaki]

Hello,

~ snip ~

or just a Muslim wearing a crucifix?

Thanks,
Christine

You’ll never ever see a muslim wearing a crucifix - never!

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

You’ll never ever see a muslim wearing a crucifix - never!

True that!

I just learned that Muslims believe, based on our Bible, that it was Judas Iscariot the betrayer who was crucified, not our Lord Jesus Who they believe is one of their holy Prophets. They don’t believe a cross or crucifix has anything to do with our Lord Jesus.

 

[LisaA]

Are you thinking of covering? If so, I want encourage you!!! This is a pre-Islamic Christian practice & a pre-Christian Jewish practice which was adopted by Islam.

Thanks for your interesting post regarding wearing of a head covering. The hijab was adopted by Islam originally for only certain of Muhammed’s wives. Quite honestly I see it as a sign of subjugation of the countries’ culture by a tribal custom. If you saw photos of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, even Afghanistan before all of the uprisings in the Middle East you would see women wearing modern clothing, no head covering, make up, and jewelry. Now you see women in hijab and more and more full coverings. I was in Egypt in October and our guide said the head covering is NOT Egyptian and the full covering is NOT even Islamist, it’s a tribal relic from Saudi Arabia. Oh and yes he was a Muslim named Mohamed himself. He was well educated and spoke of the gradual takeover of the incredible proud and ancient Egyptian culture by Islam. I don’t think it was a positive step. My dearest friend from High School almost married a Persian man. She went to Iran numerous times. She was blonde, very American looking obviously and was comfortable and safe in Tehran…of course before the Shah was overthrown and the mullahs took over. You can look at country after country and their beautiful cultures are being wiped away.

I have a very negative response, particularly when I see women in our country all covered up like they were in some tribal region of sub Saharan Africa.

In no way to I mean a scarf or head covering or mantilla. I mean a very clear Islamist looking hijab. Maybe not PC to comment but I do not like seeing this in our country,

Lisa

 

[Pug]

If you saw a woman wearing a hijab and a crucifix necklace, would you think that she was Catholic, or Orthodox, or just a Muslim wearing a crucifix?

It is doubtful that I would manage to notice both garb and a crucifix, say, on a random woman in the grocery store. I would be unlikely to devote any time to thinking of it one way or the other if I did.

What would you think of a lay Catholic woman who wore the hijab? What do you think your reaction would be?

To know she is Catholic would require perhaps someone I know to start dressing that way. It might depend on what their relationship is to me and what else I know about them. That they are Catholic and lay is not enough to tell me how I’d react. If she were a member of the armed forces, for example, perhaps in a foreign country, then perhaps it is policy for her to wear it for public relations or safety or something, for example. To “react” significantly I’d need to know what was up. Though if I knew her well, I might feel concern for how people would treat her. I know how by changing your appearance you can garner attention and unwelcome remarks.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I think the problem is that she or some might think that it is okay to take this from Islam, there are established Christian traditions of women wearing headscarfs to cover the hair I think its best to take from them. If that is the case great but no one needs to take anything from islam.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

LOL Lisa, then give Thanks to God that you are a Catholic in the 20th & 21st centuries & not in the 1st, 2nd, 2rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th or 14th centuries, etc.

Thanks for your interesting post regarding wearing of a head covering. The hijab was adopted by Islam originally for only certain of Muhammed’s wives. Quite honestly I see it as a sign of subjugation of the countries’ culture by a tribal custom. If you saw photos of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, even Afghanistan before all of the uprisings in the Middle East you would see women wearing modern clothing, no head covering, make up, and jewelry. Now you see women in hijab and more and more full coverings. I was in Egypt in October and our guide said the head covering is NOT Egyptian and the full covering is NOT even Islamist, it’s a tribal relic from Saudi Arabia. Oh and yes he was a Muslim named Mohamed himself. He was well educated and spoke of the gradual takeover of the incredible proud and ancient Egyptian culture by Islam. I don’t think it was a positive step. My dearest friend from High School almost married a Persian man. She went to Iran numerous times. She was blonde, very American looking obviously and was comfortable and safe in Tehran…of course before the Shah was overthrown and the mullahs took over. You can look at country after country and their beautiful cultures are being wiped away.

I have a very negative response, particularly when I see women in our country all covered up like they were in some tribal region of sub Saharan Africa.

In no way to I mean a scarf or head covering or mantilla. I mean a very clear Islamist looking hijab. Maybe not PC to comment but I do not like seeing this in our country,

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

LOL Lisa, then give Thanks to God that you are a Catholic in the 20th & 21st centuries & not in the 1st, 2nd, 2rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th or 14th centuries, etc.

You apparently failed to read the final paragraph. A head covering, a veil, a mantilla or other traditional headcovering as a display of modesty is a beautiful thing if done with the objective of being modest and in awe of God. I went to a Polish wedding in a very old church built for our city’s Polish communities. The older ladies were ALL wearing a scarf or as one person pointed out a babushka. There is a woman at our parish who is very traditional, ALWAYS wears a veil but it’s unobtrusive and very modest. She is not making a statement.

However the OP specifically mentioned an ISLAMIC hijab. I know what that looks like, in fact I bought several in Egypt although I plan to wear them as scarves around the neck and shoulders, not wrapped around my head and neck covering those areas and hair completely.

There is a difference between traditional Catholic head covering and specifically wearing a hijab in the style of Muslim women. We have a relatively large Muslim population in parts of our city. Some are from Somalia and are VERY covered up. Others simply have a hijab with western clothing. Fine. That’s their faith and their tradition. I don’t think we should fall into that practice however, a Muslim hijab is not a Catholic tradition. To me it is a symbol of subjugation of women and of cultures. I personally dislike seeing them but that’s me. (also don’t like it when people wear flip flops and shorts or low cut clothes at Mass…just call me the Fashion Police)

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

I think the problem is that she or some might think that it is okay to take this from Islam, there are established Christian traditions of women wearing headscarfs to cover the hair I think its best to take from them. If that is the case great but no one needs to take anything from islam.

my sentiments exactly.
Lisa

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Hi Lisa,

If you read the early Church Fathers on the topic of Christian women Headcovering & the Homilies on 1 Cor. 11, you will read that what is now known as “Islamic” Headcovering/Hijab was originally Catholic Christian.

Per the early church fathers, it was expected for non-rebellious orthodox faithful Catholic Christian women to wear an opaque covering (turbans & doilies aka mantillas are specifically mentioned & in detail rejected by the early church fathers) from their forehead down to cover the natural length of their hair when unbound and in addition to show no part of their body, save their hands & face (only a hand full of fathers taught that the “faces, especially the eyes” should be covered on God-fearing women, it seems most of the fathers were okay with eyes & faces remaining uncovered in public).

In the holy Icons, we are able to see that the women Saints for at least the first 14 centuries are all dipicted wearing headcoverings & with only their faces & hands exposed - with the exception of St. Mary of Egypt who lived naked in the desert for decades and is dipicted wearing only the cloak of the monk who found her.

I was shocked when I first began studying the original Church teaching on Headcoverings, but the more I read & studied, the more I realized that Islam has hijacked this very original Christian practice. I think that we ought to take it back!

I don’t think that this Catholic/Christian tradition which is good and wholesome and univerally practiced, based on an understanding that it is based on both natural & divine law, for centuries should be cast aside because of modern secular fashions. I am not brave enough to be counter-cultural & remain “of the world” in this area.

You apparently failed to read the final paragraph. A head covering, a veil, a mantilla or other traditional headcovering as a display of modesty is a beautiful thing if done with the objective of being modest and in awe of God. I went to a Polish wedding in a very old church built for our city’s Polish communities. The older ladies were ALL wearing a scarf or as one person pointed out a babushka. There is a woman at our parish who is very traditional, ALWAYS wears a veil but it’s unobtrusive and very modest. She is not making a statement.

However the OP specifically mentioned an ISLAMIC hijab. I know what that looks like, in fact I bought several in Egypt although I plan to wear them as scarves around the neck and shoulders, not wrapped around my head and neck covering those areas and hair completely.

There is a difference between traditional Catholic head covering and specifically wearing a hijab in the style of Muslim women. We have a relatively large Muslim population in parts of our city. Some are from Somalia and are VERY covered up. Others simply have a hijab with western clothing. Fine. That’s their faith and their tradition. I don’t think we should fall into that practice however, a Muslim hijab is not a Catholic tradition. To me it is a symbol of subjugation of women and of cultures. I personally dislike seeing them but that’s me. (also don’t like it when people wear flip flops and shorts or low cut clothes at Mass…just call me the Fashion Police)

Lisa

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hi Christine,

I admire those who out of love for God wears a hijab-style headcovering which is described in the Early Church Fathers as the expectation for faithful Catholic Christian single ladies & married women both in & outside of Church. It’s described in such detail in the Fathers the way of modest dress that was acceptible not just in one country, but all over the world where Christians were.

I did wear hijab-style headcovering for about 8 days in a row. I loved how connected I felt with our ancestors in Christ and to God for obeying. 1 Cor. 11 speaks briefly that a woman wearing long hair is following natural law & wearing a separate cloth headcovering is acceptance of divine law. St. John Chrysostom’s homily on 1 Cor. 11 is very detailed & clear and consistent with all the other Fathers on the subject.

If I were more brave, I’d wear it at all times outside of the home as the early Church so clearly & consistently taught. I do wear headcovering to Mass though, I can no longer imagine going up to receive Jesus Christ our God in the Eucharist without my head fully covered. I know that the “sin” has been removed for those women who choose not to cover at Mass, but I haven’t found anything that actually says it’s acceptible to break the ancient tradition or that claims it is no longer part of divine law as the early Church Fathers speak so clearly. In other words I can’t find any reason Not to cover. **May God have mercy on my fear to be different and obey in this matter. **

That’s quite an indictment of the men who serve as priests, bishops, cardinals and so forth, neglecting to tell women what they should be obeying and kowtowing to current standards. And of course you know better what things women should obey and when the men charged with authority in the church are failing in their duties. .

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

To me it is a symbol of subjugation of women and of cultures. I personally dislike seeing them but that’s me.
Lisa

I have Muslim friends and they are always surprised that in general, we Christians, tend to think that when Muslim women wear headcoverings it’s a sign of subjugation. In our Bible, 1 Cor. 11 lists that one of the main reasons women are to wear headcoverings are to show our acceptance that we are subjected to men as men are subjected to Christ. Amazingly, our thoughts equating Muslim women’s headcovering with subjection of those Muslim women comes from OUR Catholic Christian religion, not from Islam. The Quran recommends women to wear hijab to please Allah/God, not to subject them to man.

 

[LisaA]

Hi Lisa,

If you read the early Church Fathers on the topic of Christian women Headcovering & the Homilies on 1 Cor. 11, you will read that what is now known as “Islamic” Headcovering/Hijab was originally Catholic Christian.

Per the early church fathers, it was expected for non-rebellious orthodox faithful Catholic Christian women to wear an opaque covering (turbans & doilies aka mantillas are specifically mentioned & in detail rejected by the early church fathers) from their forehead down to cover the natural length of their hair when unbound and in addition to show no part of their body, save their hands & face (only a hand full of fathers taught that the “faces, especially the eyes” should be covered on God-fearing women, it seems most of the fathers were okay with eyes & faces remaining uncovered in public).

In the holy Icons, we are able to see that the women Saints for at least the first 14 centuries are all dipicted wearing headcoverings & with only their faces & hands exposed - with the exception of St. Mary of Egypt who lived naked in the desert for decades and is dipicted wearing only the cloak of the monk who found her.

I was shocked when I first began studying the original Church teaching on Headcoverings, but the more I read & studied, the more I realized that Islam has hijacked this very original Christian practice. I think that we ought to take it back!

I don’t think that this Catholic/Christian tradition which is good and wholesome and univerally practiced, based on an understanding that it is based on both natural & divine law, for centuries should be cast aside because of modern secular fashions. I am not brave enough to be counter-cultural & remain “of the world” in this area.

Of course there were writings on women’s modesty (men’s too!) in early Church documents. But the Catholic Church didn’t make up the covering of the head and hair, we also hijacked it if you will. You will find references to women in the Old Testament as well with their heads, hair and bodies covered. We would look back to the Jews for some of these traditions although I think they are initially more cultural and climate related than religious…people in the middle east covered their bodies more than say those in Africa. We see portraits of the Blessed Mother and other Jewish women with head covering, some Orthodox still cover today.

Aside from that, this wound around the neck, separate head/hair/neck covering is much different than the looser “hood” type covering you see in portraits of Mary and other great women of the Church. Certainly Religious were very covered…I can visualize the nuns of my childhood with the black habit, white wimple and their entire bodies covered except for the hands and the face. Covered but not a hijab and certainly not a burka.

Modesty is a wonderful attribute, but putting on an Islamic style hijab, is in my opinion, making a statement and not a positive one. I wouldn’t put on a Star of David out of respect for my own faith and Judaism. Wearing a symbol of another faith that these days is CLEARLY Muslim, is not a good thing in my opinion.

Lisa

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

That’s quite an indictment of the men who serve as priests, bishops, cardinals and so forth, neglecting to tell women what they should be obeying. And of course you know better what things women should obey.

For reasons unknown to me the holy hierarchy of our Church in general has stopped preaching about headcoverings even though the early church fathers had so strongly preached on that topic. Why don’t they anymore? I don’t know. Maybe they figure the early church fathers writings, the Bible & the Icons already exist to teach us sufficiently? Maybe they’re busy trying to overcome abortion & birth control to discuss headcoverings/modesty? Maybe there are totally different reasons?

I have read the Bible on the issue of headcoverings and I have read the early church fathers on the same subject and I have venerated the holy Icons which are also witness to the tradition. I don’t know why the tradition has been nearly completely set aside - it is perplexing. I do know that we are responsible for what we know, & not for that which we’re ignorant about and so may have to answer to God for not submitting to His Will in this matter, but may He have mercy on me! I’m just not that brave to be so counter-cultural.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

To me it is a symbol of subjugation of women and of cultures. I personally dislike seeing them but that’s me.
Lisa

I have Muslim friends and they are always surprised that in general, we Christians, tend to think that when Muslim women wear headcoverings it’s a sign of subjugation. In our Bible, 1 Cor. 11 lists that one of the main reasons women are to wear headcoverings are to show our acceptance that we are subjected to men as men are subjected to Christ. Amazingly, our thoughts equating Muslim women’s headcovering with subjection of those Muslim women comes from OUR Catholic Christian religion, not from Islam. The Quran recommends women to wear hijab to please Allah/God, not to subject them to man.

 

[LisaA]

I have Muslim friends and they are always surprised that in general, we Christians, tend to think that when Muslim women wear headcoverings it’s a sign of subjugation. In our Bible, 1 Cor. 11 lists that one of the main reasons women are to wear headcoverings are to show our acceptance that we are subjected to men as men are subjected to Christ. Amazingly, our thoughts equating Muslim women’s headcovering with subjection of those Muslim women comes from OUR Catholic Christian religion, not from Islam. The Quran recommends women to wear hijab to please Allah/God, not to subject them to man.

Right…

The point is that women who wear hijab now, in many places are not doing it because they are religious and faithful Muslims but because the Islamists have taken over their countries and wiped out their native culture.

One of my former bosses was Muslim and often invited the public to his Mosque for educational talks, not so much to convert but to establish good relations and an understanding (pre 9/11 fwiw). The women spoke of wearing the hijab to reserve their beauty for their husbands, even though they were quite devout in their faith it was more of a family influence. Further the majority of women did NOT wear a hijab and they spoke of it being truly a choice. One is not considered a lesser Muslim for not wearing a hijab…at least not then. The Fundamentalist Islamist influence is what is pushing wear of the hijab, not so much a devotion to Allah. I rather got a kick out of Muslim girls on the streets in Egypt and Turkey, wearing beautiful, often glittering headscarves, with lots of make up, lots of jewelry, teetering on high heels as they tapped with painted nails on their cell phones.

Pleasing to Allah? I think not.

Lisa

 

[Casey123]

I would expect a woman, or man, of any faith who is visiting a mosque to conform to their standards of dress and behavior, out of respect for them and their beliefs. When you’re in someone else’s house, you follow their rules.

As far as a woman wearing a headscarf in her own services in her own faith, or at home, or in public, or to wherever she wants to go, I feel it’s up to her. A woman can wear what she wants and do as she pleases. All people have this right.

I honestly cannot, for the life of me, fathom what the purpose of this thread is.

Hello,

I’ve read some blogs by Catholic (and Orthodox, Protestant, pagan, etc) women who’ve decided to wear a headscarf in the Islamic hijab style (which covers all the hair, the ears, and the neck) for various reasons. I’ve been curious about what sort of reactions the Catholic hijabis (hijab-wearers) have gotten from the Catholic community, particularly at Mass. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to contact them.

What would you think of a lay Catholic woman who wore the hijab? What do you think your reaction would be? If you saw a woman wearing a hijab and a crucifix necklace, would you think that she was Catholic, or Orthodox, or just a Muslim wearing a crucifix?

Thanks,
Christine

 

[Margy1948]

**Islam is not just another religion. I would like to wear the headscarf too - I like feeling modestly covered, alot, around the head/hair shoulder area.

But: no encouragement of casual observors concluding that Islam is becoming more prevalent erroneously… because of non-Islamists wearing the scarf - is tolerable.

Islam is bent on destruction of western culture.**

no, it’s not! Stop saying things like that!

 

[coachkfan1]

I think the hajib is beautiful and demonstrates great humility. I agree that because it is commonly associated with Islam that it might be important to also where a crucifix or some other Chrisitian symbol. I saw a Muslim woman wearing a beautiful blue and white veil at the mall, and I thought here is a humble women who does not strange men gawking at Her. So I have great respect for what it is meant to represent and I would have no problem with a Catholic woman wearing one.

 

[MissyB786]

Its very true what a lot of people have posted on this thread, the purpose of headscarf or hijaab in arabic is for modesty not to please man but to please God. I have seen both sides of the spectrum with and without headscarf. When I don’t wear it men harassing me and when I do wear it men keep there distance and know to respect me.

God’s law has a purpose, its not to subjugate us but to protect us and society. So hijaab in Islam or Christianity is for:

1. To please God by obeying His law
2. To protect us women so there is divine wisdom in the law
3. Who is the best woman of mankind, if I had to give a common example shared between Muslims and Christians it wud be Mary(as), she is declared the best woman in Islam

Quran 3:42
[And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds]

So if we r to please God we obey his laws and how to obey his laws by imitating the people that know best how to obey such laws. So with regards to clothing and appearance Hijaab/Headscarf is what Mary(as) wore, so I would try to imitate her appearance and in actions.

The different types of hijaabs, clothing, fashions, cultures u see today is a result of fashion, culture, convenience mixed in. So some wear colourful, whilst others wear normal English clothes, whilst others wear the full loose attire. It depends I guess the degree the person wishes to please God.

These days i wear more loose long skirts/tops/trousers headscarves so trying to change my dress sense so it is more acceptable to God.

 

[LisaA]

Its very true what a lot of people have posted on this thread, the purpose of headscarf or hijaab in arabic is for modesty not to please man but to please God. I have seen both sides of the spectrum with and without headscarf. When I don’t wear it men harassing me and when I do wear it men keep there distance and know to respect me.

God’s law has a purpose, its not to subjugate us but to protect us and society. So hijaab in Islam or Christianity is for:

1. To please God by obeying His law
2. To protect us women so there is divine wisdom in the law
3. Who is the best woman of mankind, if I had to give a common example shared between Muslims and Christians it wud be Mary(as), she is declared the best woman in Islam

Quran 3:42
[And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds]

So if we r to please God we obey his laws and how to obey his laws by imitating the people that know best how to obey such laws. So with regards to clothing and appearance Hijaab/Headscarf is what Mary(as) wore, so I would try to imitate her appearance and in actions.

Thank you for your insight. I think the point of wanting to imitate Mary in action is admirable. Few could be a better model of obedience to God, humility and love. I have four images of the Blessed Mother in my bedroom and after posting to this thread I really looked at her manner of dress. In all of them, her head was covered with a loose cloth. Her hair was partly uncovered and you could see her neck in all four images.

I have absolutely no negative reaction to a Catholic woman wearing a head covering in the tradition of Mary as she is portrayed in artistic renditions (since we have no photos). However based on what the OP said, the kind of head covering she mentioned is not what I think of as Catholic. The hair is completely covered and the neck is completely covered as are the collarbones and of course shoulders. THAT said “Muslim” to me and I would not want to see our Catholic women taking on that sort of headcovering.

Again, my opinion. I didn’t think the Muslim women in Egypt and Turkey were particularly “modest” other than the hijaab. They were quite decked out with make-up and jewelry and wow the shoes…!

I

The different types of hijaabs, clothing, fashions, cultures u see today is a result of fashion, culture, convenience mixed in. So some wear colourful, whilst others wear normal English clothes, whilst others wear the full loose attire. It depends I guess the degree the person wishes to please God.

These days i wear more loose long skirts/tops/trousers headscarves so trying to change my dress sense so it is more acceptable to God.

I agree, what I’ve seen in Muslim dress both here in America and also overseas is a lot more related to the culture and what is acceptable. The Somali women are VERY covered although the fabrics are beautiful. Some of the other Muslim women wear very form fitting clothing, dark colors, no prints but also the hijaab. I wonder at the message sometimes.

Lisa