What do you think of climate change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter phaster
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Theo520 said:
I urge you all to watch this documentary, it’s on youtube and free.

You’re in lockdown, you need a switch from netflix 😉

Climate Scientists Try to Rescue Renewable Energies from ‘Planet of the Humans’ – Watts Up With That?
Click to expand...
keep in mind, there is a big difference between a trained scientist AND a filmmaker/entertainer (which is analogous to an expert vs a pundit)

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/how-an-expert-is-different-from-a-pundit/

Planet of the Humans (caveats)

 
Last edited:
It does raise the issue of gatekeeping and of who is qualified to be involved in the decision making process, which has grave implications for democracy.
It also brings to mind the challenge of minding the minders.
Scientism seems to be a growing religion/philosphy, at least in the area in which I live. I wonder if we might be headed, politically, in the direction of a more authoritarian technocracy?
 
jeannetherese said:
It does raise the issue of gatekeeping and of who is qualified to be involved in the decision making process, which has grave implications for democracy.
It also brings to mind the challenge of minding the minders.
Scientism seems to be a growing religion/philosphy, at least in the area in which I live. I wonder if we might be headed, politically, in the direction of a more authoritarian technocracy?
Click to expand...
Yes…
And who’s watching those self-appointed “mavens” of truth?
For all we know, they indirectly work for ‘The father of Lies’

_
 
Not everyone, Leaf.
And we know that theories change, when confronted by enough evidence. The problem is that the theory that changes, is wrong prior to the evidence accumulating, and that people lived in accordance with that theory up until (and sometimes after) it is disproven.
Thomas Kuhn’s the Structure of Scientific Revolutions goes into detail on this process.
How to deal with this becomes a problem for scientists and non-scientists.
 
Last edited:
Native Floridian here. Last year I had the chance to visit a few beach fronts where I would hang out as a teen. I biked all up and down A1A as a teen, but had not been to those areas in almost 2 decades.

I was utterly shocked at the ocean water that pools on A1A following a high tide. And the water levels were up several feet over where they had been 20 years ago. It seemed like the beaches had been washed out with the tides.
 
MamaJewel said:
Native Floridian here. Last year I had the chance to visit a few beach fronts where I would hang out as a teen. I biked all up and down A1A as a teen, but had not been to those areas in almost 2 decades.

I was utterly shocked at the ocean water that pools on A1A following a high tide. And the water levels were up several feet over where they had been 20 years ago. It seemed like the beaches had been washed out with the tides.
Click to expand...
what you might find interesting is the “changes” (i.e. water levels were up several feet over where they had been 20 years ago) to the shore line you noticed are projected by the GAO to become much worst

#sadly seems a know it all stable genius is trying pretty hard to cover up the science that has been gathered over the years by government agencies such as the EPA

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
jeannetherese said:
It does raise the issue of gatekeeping and of who is qualified to be involved in the decision making process, which has grave implications for democracy.
Click to expand...
A FREE AND OPEN DEMOCRACY HAS TRADEOFFS,… to those catholics here, a democracy allows us to freely attend Sunday mass,… it also allows jews to go to temple, muslims to attend a mosque OR an atheist to attend the church of no shopping if they so decide

likewise a free and open democracy allows individuals w/ no formal science education to gather together to discuss wacky ideas, like the earth is flat

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

sadly people on social media do not often consider the very real fact that idiotic/unscientific beliefs do get people killed

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)


WRT a hard science like physics (that takes many years of effort and hard work to learn), the reason I studied it and find it so appealing is because there is an absolute clarity unlike in say a debate about what religion is better (i.e. christian vs jew vs muslim) since the final proof is in the scientific process AND not something subjective such as “cult” personality likability

in this long thread about climate change, noticed that all too often things that I thought to be pretty common knowledge, others that were not so well educated found some concepts to be totally surprising,… like “moist air is lighter than dry air”
40.png
What do you think of climate change? Social Justice
As a former pilot I can confirm that moist air is less dense than dry air,… so “scientifically speaking,… moist air is lighter than dry air,…” NO-DUH,… just sayin’ that understanding the big picture of science and politics as it relates to climate change requires a specific skill set (otherwise people will remain unable to “see”) [The Blind Men and the Elephant] in my case started my informal pilot training really young because my dad was an engineer in the aerospace industry, …
Click to expand...
also noticed the all too human trait of overestimating ability,… IOW WRT understanding the actual climate science

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I was very fortunate to learn in high school the sin of PRIDE (i.e. excessive belief in one’s own abilities) is a really bad personality trait


@ university because I was among some truly smart people both student and professors (who were world class researchers who were luminaries in their field of study),… basically if I had shown any tendency of excessive belief in one’s own abilities and was not able to back it up, lets say they (i.e. fellow students and various professors) would made it abundantly clear AND I would not have been able to learn much

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

long story as to issue of gatekeeping and of who is qualified,… unfortunately in a democracy it is not too hard to find examples of people in leadership roles having insane ideas w/ no basis in scientific fact!!!

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)


 
phaster said:
A FREE AND OPEN DEMOCRACY HAS TRADEOFFS,… to those catholics here, a democracy allows us to freely attend Sunday mass,…
Click to expand...
The timing for this argument might be just a bit off.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

One of the challenges in society is to provide education, critical thinking skills, and information sufficient to support informed decision making.
One of the challenges for voters is to refuse to settle for being led by the experts, but rather, to insist upon learning and thinking for themselves.
 
I am puzzled by all this focus on climate change.

We know, with very high degree of certainly, how much mercury there would be in fish without human activity.

We know, with very high degree of certainty, how many radioactive isotopes there would be in the environment without human activity.

We have a pretty good idea how many forests would be left without human activity.

Likewise for ozone layer, fertilizer run-off into rivers and ground water, pollution from oil spills, overfishing, overgrazing, etc.

All of these are quantifiable, and without a doubt bad things.

We don’t actually know what climate would be like without human activity. “Probably a little colder” is as precise as we are going to get.

So why focus on this one thing that so hard to quantify?

You do not need to show it true to make a compelling case for environmentalism.
 
jeannetherese said:
40.png
phaster:
A FREE AND OPEN DEMOCRACY HAS TRADEOFFS,… to those catholics here, a democracy allows us to freely attend Sunday mass,…
Click to expand...
The timing for this argument might be just a bit off.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

One of the challenges in society is to provide education, critical thinking skills, and information sufficient to support informed decision making.
One of the challenges for voters is to refuse to settle for being led by the experts, but rather, to insist upon learning and thinking for themselves.
Click to expand...
think of the issue this way, would you as a parent let your young kid play unsupervised w/ a loaded fire arm or perhaps a surgical scalpel, so that they could learn on their own that these tools can be deadly???

in this case parents are the experts preventing their kids from making fatal learning mistakes!

 
stacie said:
I am puzzled by all this focus on climate change.
Click to expand...
what I’ve come to realize in this thread is few if any have the necessary formal hard science education, a practical technical back ground, etc. to grasp the various cause and effect(s) WRT the markets, climate change, etc.

for example last month when oil was negatively priced I’m 99.99% certain users of CAF have no idea why this happened nor understand why this isn’t a good sign for the future,…
He started the day with $77,000 — by midnight, he owed $9 million

On April 20, Shah started with about $77,000 in his account. He put $2,400 toward buying crude, first at $3.30 a barrel, and then more at 50 cents. From there it got interesting. Ultimately, as the historic plunge in oil prices took hold, he was able to load up on futures at a penny each.

In reality, crude was already trading at negative-$3.70 a barrel — not at one cent — but the minus sign wasn’t recognized due to a glitch in the Interactive Brokers Group’s software. By the end of the day, Shah got the message: His $77,000 had turned into a $9-million debt.

He started the day with $77,000 — by midnight, he owed $9 million - MarketWatch
Click to expand...
so rather that try to explain why people should be worried about why stuff like oil being negatively priced is a very worrying knock of effect, have been playing around w/ various images that can be used to view a topic like the pandemic the economy and climate change and hopefully give people who do not have the benefit of a science back ground a rough idea of a relative size of the problems

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I can understand your reasoning, but, in this day and age, the pictures seem to become stand ins for the data and knowledge necessary for informed decision making. I wonder if, instead of persuading those who lack information, they might just be discarded as memes, standing in for information.
Ultimately, I’m not sure that they will serve your purpose or create a better informed populace.
 
Last edited:
I think were screwed. We can’t get people to wear a mask, how can we tackle climate change.
 
jeannetherese said:
I can understand your reasoning, but, in this day and age, the pictures seem to become stand ins for the data and knowledge necessary for informed decision making.
Click to expand...
pictures are necessary because most people are too lazy and/or dumb to actually do the hard work of fact checking details,… for example in another CAF thread that touches upon the topic of climate change
40.png
Rush Limbaugh Says Coronavirus Is Becoming Like Climate Change: ‘Every Day We Get Some New Scare Tactic’ World News
MAY 14TH, 2020 Rush Limbaugh Says Coronavirus Is Becoming Like Climate Change: ‘Every Day We Get Some New Scare Tactic’ By Tim Pearce DailyWire.com (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) via Getty Images Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh said that the reporting and commentary around the coronavirus outbreak is becoming strikingly similar to the alarmism surrounding climate change. Limbaugh made the comparison on his radio show on Thursday. The pundit started…
Click to expand...
Coronavirus Is Starting to Sound Like Climate Change
May 14, 2020

…In fact, the first that I found… I’ve researched it.

…Well, the modern era of the climate change movement begins late 1978, '79 with a Newsweek cover story on how the new ice age is coming. Five years later, they dump ice age and instead transition to global warming.

https://news.iheart.com/featured/ru...rus-is-starting-to-sound-like-climate-change/
Click to expand...
phaster said:
interesting the random trivia that I’ve leaned in the course of this thread,… anyway since you (and perhaps many others) don’t believe Snopes is credible, so what about a word from time magazine itself who categorically deny they published something deniers tout as fact!!!
Sorry, a TIME Magazine Cover Did Not Predict a Coming Ice Age

…the hoax does touch on an important part of climate science — and one that’s often misunderstood by skeptics. Call it the Ice Age Fallacy. Skeptics argue that back in the 1970s both popular media and some scientists were far more worried about global cooling than they were about global warming.

blah, blah, blah

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

http://time.com/5670942/time-magazine-ice-age-cover-hoax/

The TIME Magazine Vault

(NOTE,… The Global Warming Survival Guide | Apr. 9, 2007)

The TIME Magazine Vault
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
bottom line,…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top