What do you think of climate change?

[LeafByNiggle]

Metis1:

But the pattern in recent decades, which was predicted even decades before, have shown a global warming pattern, which should be obvious based on what the measurements are showing and being reported on yearly. Most other potential factors have shown no relationship to what we’re seeing.

Well here is where you lose everyone. “The last decades”
The last decades is a fraction of a second in history and there are numerous times in the past that have shown higher warming trends than we are currently in before the industrial revolution. So how can scientists be so certain that what man is doing is what is causing the warming?

Read the technical papers and find out. Climate science is not something that is analyzable with kitchen table science.

BTW, we are not even close to the maximum co2 ppm levels the earth has seen.

We are at the maximum that has ever been seen with civilized man on earth.

 

[Theo520]

Read the technical papers and find out. Climate science is not something that is analyzable with kitchen table science.

The research says the models are wrong
That they have bad assumptions
Warming will be more moderate than the models project

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

Metis1:

But the pattern in recent decades, which was predicted even decades before, have shown a global warming pattern, which should be obvious based on what the measurements are showing and being reported on yearly. Most other potential factors have shown no relationship to what we’re seeing.

Well here is where you lose everyone. “The last decades”
The last decades is a fraction of a second in history and there are numerous times in the past that have shown higher warming trends than we are currently in before the industrial revolution. So how can scientists be so certain that what man is doing is what is causing the warming?

Read the technical papers and find out. Climate science is not something that is analyzable with kitchen table science.

BTW, we are not even close to the maximum co2 ppm levels the earth has seen.

We are at the maximum that has ever been seen with civilized man on earth.

We are at the highest levels of co2 ppm since humans have been around

 

[Ender]

We are at the highest levels of co2 ppm since humans have been around.

So? No one questions whether man is increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere; the debate is over what impact that will have, and the predictions (from the models) do not match the measurements. Of course, with NOAA continually changing past temperature data we can’t even be sure what the past was, let alone what the future will be.

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

We are at the highest levels of co2 ppm since humans have been around.

So? No one questions whether man is increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere; the debate is over what impact that will have, and the predictions (from the models) do not match the measurements. Of course, with NOAA continually changing past temperature data we can’t even be sure what the past was, let alone what the future will be.

I was just answering a question. I think we are on the same page

 

[Crusaderbear]

Is climate changing? YES
Is it primarily due to humans? NO

I am more concerned with human destruction of habitats for the other residents of this world. THAT is most definitely our fault!

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Is climate changing? YES
Is it primarily due to humans? NO

I am more concerned with human destruction of habitats for the other residents of this world. THAT is most definitely our fault!

That is exactly what is happening due to climate change. And it is destroying the habitat for not only “other residents” but for humans as well. There are already human climate refugees whose “habitat” has been rendered uninhabitable.

 

[Ender]

That is exactly what is happening due to climate change. And it is destroying the habitat for not only “other residents” but for humans as well. There are already human climate refugees whose “habitat” has been rendered uninhabitable.

Citation for this?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

That is exactly what is happening due to climate change. And it is destroying the habitat for not only “other residents” but for humans as well. There are already human climate refugees whose “habitat” has been rendered uninhabitable.

Citation for this?

Between 2003 and 2009, a partial survey by the Army Corps of Engineers identified thirty-one Alaskan villages under imminent threat of flooding and erosion. By 2009, 12 of the 31 villages had decided to relocate, with four (Kivalina, Newtok, Shaktoolik, and Shishmaref) requiring immediate evacuation due to danger of immediate flooding along with limited evacuation options. [55]

Isle de Jean Charles, Louisiana, home to the Biloxi-Chitimacha-Choctaw First Nation, is being depopulated with federal grant money, due to saltwater intrusion and sea level rise. This Indigenous Nation residing on the Isle de Jean Charles is facing the effects of climate change. The resettlement of this community of around 100, exists as the first migration of a total community in the state of Louisiana. This state has lost almost 2000 square miles of its coast within the last 87 years and now an alarming rate of almost 16 square miles a year is disappearing. In early 2016, a 48-million-dollar grant was the first allocation of federal tax dollars to aid a community suffering from direct impact of climate change. Louisiana has lost land mass comparable to the size of the state of Delaware revealing land mass loss that is at a rate faster than many places in the world. The resettlement plan for the Isle de Jean Charles is at the forefront of responding to climate change without destroying the community that resides within.[56][57]

(Excerpts from here.)

 

[Ender]

…thirty-one Alaskan villages under imminent threat of flooding and erosion…Isle de Jean Charles, Louisiana, home to the Biloxi-Chitimacha-Choctaw First Nation, is being depopulated with federal grant money, due to saltwater intrusion and sea level rise.

Sea levels have been gradually rising since the 1850’s. That sea levels are rising is an indication that climate changes, no surprise there. Where is the indication that man is the cause? There have been papers asserting an increased rate of rise, but plenty of papers denying it as well, and even the IPCC puts the increase in the range of 3mm/yr. Really?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

…thirty-one Alaskan villages under imminent threat of flooding and erosion…Isle de Jean Charles, Louisiana, home to the Biloxi-Chitimacha-Choctaw First Nation, is being depopulated with federal grant money, due to saltwater intrusion and sea level rise.

Sea levels have been gradually rising since the 1850’s. That sea levels are rising is an indication that climate changes, no surprise there. Where is the indication that man is the cause? There have been papers asserting an increased rate of rise, but plenty of papers denying it as well, and even the IPCC puts the increase in the range of 3mm/yr. Really?

“Plenty of papers”? The fact remains these people were fine for many years and now they are not.

 

[Ender]

The fact remains these people were fine for many years and now they are not.

Yet none of this is even evidence that (a) the rate of sea level rise is increasing, or (b) man is responsible.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I believe the scientists who say otherwise. (And sea level rise is not the only factor. Temperature itself threatens the way of life of people in the arctic.)

 

[Ender]

I believe the scientists who say otherwise.

I accept the arguments and the data, and I don’t believe either support the alarmists.

 

[childinthefaith]

I was an EE, and before that an explosives systems guy, so out of my field.
But, as an average newer Catholic guy at age 50, I know little about the science you mention, but the reason is that I do not wish to. Now please don’t mistake that as me being rude with a smarty reply, it is simply that when I was in school, nobody discussed it.
It’s not on my radar as something me or my children need worry about in our life times.
I also think it arrogant when I’ve heard people say “We’re destroying the Earth,” for anyone to be so presumptious. IMO, if the earth is destroyed, it won’t be by our decisions. Looks to me, from my uneducated on the topic perspective that, the earth has been bouncing back from abuse after abuse for a loooong time before me, and I feel too tiny to change its future course - i feel it to be in the hands of God.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I also think it arrogant when I’ve heard people say “We’re destroying the Earth,” for anyone to be so presumptious.

Let’s not exaggerate the claims of global warming. No one is saying we are destroying the Earth in the sense of the Star Wars Death Star or anything like that. But we are changing it for the worse for many people who will follow us. And it is not arrogant to say this is possible. We have already done so on a smaller scale, and mostly we have been able to repair the damage we made, such as acid rain in the northeast US and pollution lighting the Cuyahoga River on fire. We also stepped back from removing the protection against skin cancer that the ozone layer provided. However climate change is different. It is much slower to accumulate and much slower to correct. Also I find it strange that you excuse your position on the basis that it will not affect you or your children. As Christians we clearly have a duty to be concerned for people farther in the future than that and people farther from our own house.

 

[childinthefaith]

Also I find it strange that you excuse your position on the basis that it will not affect you or your children. As Christians we clearly have a duty to be concerned for people farther in the future than that and people farther from our own house.

I am not trying to excuse myself, or stupidly bow out of caring. What I meant was it doesnt seem a present danger so it hasn’t red-flagged my attention.
Being a good steward is of course our responsibility I agree. I simply dont get the alarmist version of what you state that I so often hear. Your statements make sense to me…

 

[LeafByNiggle]

There are many variations on the views of climate change, so the term “alarmist view” without further clarification is ambiguous.

 

[EndTimes]

Labelling a claim as “olde hatt” or historical canard doesn’t exactly prove your position either

I’ve no intention to prove anything…
Since Jesus speaks of a Great Falling Away - some

Labelling a claim as “olde hatt” or historical canard doesn’t exactly prove your position either.

Your claims would’ve carried some weight were they not so devoid of examples… You could start with Satan and Adam . And Those whom in the days of Moses preferred Gold to God… that sort of thing, Yes?

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Labelling a claim as “olde hatt” or historical canard doesn’t exactly prove your position either

I’ve no intention to prove anything…
Since Jesus speaks of a Great Falling Away - some

Labelling a claim as “olde hatt” or historical canard doesn’t exactly prove your position either.

Your claims would’ve carried some weight were they not so devoid of examples… You could start with Satan and Adam . And Those whom in the days of Moses preferred Gold to God… that sort of thing, Yes?

I suppose we only have to look to those who wish to exercise government control over all sectors of the economy under the pretext of climate change to see who, precisely, has a preference for gold over God.

It seemed pretty obvious that this same party have consistently sought to purge God entirely from the public sphere.