What do you think of greeters?

[Sarabande]

I’m wondering if the question isn’t so much liberal vs traditional/conservative/etc as much as it is an emphasis on the horizontal or vertical in each parish community. Granted, these often parallel each other but the lines are definitely not distinct and each of these may not necessary contain the same groups of people.

Clear as mud? If so, let’s have a mudfight!

Peace

I think you made a more concise point than what I was trying to say. Of course, there are things that parishes do which tend to fit in with either being a more conservative or more liberal parish. In the end, though, it really does depend on the leaders of the parish and how they encourage and emphasize certain aspects of their “community” and, as you say, focus on the horizontal or vertical, especially during mass.

 

[tweetymom]

I’m sorry you have had the bad experience of hearing so much against Protestants on this forum. However, you may find it comforting to distinguish between “pseudo-Protestant-Catholic” bashing and true Protestant bashing. What I have seen in my limited experience on this forum is more of the former. What I mean by the difference is that I personally think it is fine for Protestants to celebrate the Lord’s Supper with grape juice instead of wine. I would never think of getting on their case for it. But if I find a Catholic parish attempting to celebrate the Eucharist that way, I would be very upset indeed. I might say something about protestantizing (if I didn’t think the word was ugly from a linguistic standpoint) without ever thinking anything bad about protestants. You can dislike the behavior of Catholics who are trying to pretend to be Protestant without having anything against Protestants.

And in the real world, I have been told multiple times flat out that I was going to Hell because I was Catholic. I have heard the Catholic Church referred to as “evil” and “pagan” within a Protestant worship service. I have also heard things even in much more moderate churches like this that I heard from a missionary, “There were no Christian churches on the whole island when we got there–only a Catholic church.” If you see Protestant-bashing, maybe it is a reaction to experiences like these. These experiences do not make it OK to speak badly of our separated brethren, but they may provide a reason that it happens.

I’ve been back in the Church for a few years now, but nonetheless most of my friends are protestant–it’s one of the reasons I joined this forum, because the only person I can talk to in person about Catholic stuff is my Dad (who is great but still just one person).

Anyway, if people don’t want greeters because it is too “Protestant” it doesn’t say anything bad about Protestants, just that they’re not Catholic. I don’t personally think it is a good argument, I’m just trying to say that it doesn’t necessarily indicate hostility toward Protestants.

–Jen

I’ve been in both places Catholic and Protestant and I have never heard such blame or whatever you want to call it as I have heard here at CAF.

In the town where I lived before moving here 6 Churches get together 4 times a year and have worship services and I have never seen or heard either side (if you will) say anything but show kindness and Love towards one another.

We are also doing this same thing here in Sacramento and it is a wonderful experience.

As greeter I never look someone over just say Good Evening. Never didi and have never seen anyone look somrone over in a Protestant Church. People sure act paronoid sometimes,

But oh well guess thats what makes the world the way it is.Some people just don’t want to get along. If we can love one another here what are our chances we will make heaven?

God Bless and if you come to my Church I will be sure to ignore you:thumbsup:

 

[basenji]

That new pastor totally got the parishioners’ focus away from the mass still, despite all of that. He got rid of the organist and hired a person who really wasn’t a musician. He faked his way through everything and basically closed down the loft, bringing that musician’s band to the front by taking out a few pews on the side, he allowed lectors to bring their Starbucks coffee up with them to the ambo and they’d place their coffees right on the marble while they read and then picked them up and bring them back to their pew. These things that he did, along with what I described before, and bringing his own entorage from his other parish to kick out the “old” and bring in the “new”, was what changed the entire dynamic of that parish.

It’s the pastor and those he sets around him to help him out which makes the most influence on the entire parish.

Zoinks! Jinkies, even. That is so just soooo not right, IMHO. It unnerves me. I can only imagine how painful that must be for the people who have suffered the loss of more than the just their old pastor or ways of doing things at Mass.

You are absolutely right when you mentioned that it all boils down to the pastor, the shepherd of that particular flock. Talk about trying to hard!

 

[ishii]

There may be some truth in that, but again, I wonder how much of it is more set by the pastor and others rather than the architecture of the church itself. The parish I described to you regarding the change from a conservative pastor to a liberal pastor, the church building, itself, was over 150 years old. A small, but totally lovely little ethnic parish. The tabernacle was behind the altar, it still had the altar rails, a crucifix, these gorgeous, huge works of art that were their stations of the cross donated by one of parishioners from a century ago, the Latin in the front of the church was still there a lovely pipe organ and choir loft, etc.

That new pastor totally got the parishioners’ focus away from the mass still, despite all of that. He got rid of the organist and hired a person who really wasn’t a musician. He faked his way through everything and basically closed down the loft, bringing that musician’s band to the front by taking out a few pews on the side, he allowed lectors to bring their Starbucks coffee up with them to the ambo and they’d place their coffees right on the marble while they read and then picked them up and bring them back to their pew. These things that he did, along with what I described before, and bringing his own entorage from his other parish to kick out the “old” and bring in the “new”, was what changed the entire dynamic of that parish.

It’s the pastor and those he sets around him to help him out which makes the most influence on the entire parish.

Of course, it is everything together, most importantly the example set by the pastor, obviously. I never said, just get a beautiful church with statues and “voila” -you get a traditional church. Also, just because the church is modern looking, doesn’t mean that the liturgy or the pastor is liberal… But in general, in my experience, the crucifix, the tabernacle, votive candles, statues of mary and the saints all help to instill a reverence among the parishioners along with the pastor’s example. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on here…

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Did you read my response in Post #62? Please do so.

In that post, I describe the differences between the jobs of “usher” and “greeter.”

Greeters do their work OUTSIDE the nave, while ushers’ tasks are done INSIDE the nave.

It’s impossible to be in two places at once.

It is not appropriate to “greet” people inside the nave. And it is not possible (in most churches) to adjust the sound system or help people find seating outside the nave.

My husband is an usher, and he would NOT have the time to do the work of a greeter while he is doing the work of an usher, which includes a number of “technical” tasks (e.g., managing the sound system, helping people find seats, directing traffic during Holy Communion, straightening up the nave and picking up trash, rearranging hymnals, etc. before and after Mass, etc.

You should not base your conclusions about greeters on your personal experiences. If I were to base my decision to convert to the Catholic Church on my personal experiences with Catholics, I would never have joined the Catholic Church because so many Catholics are phony, irreverent, totally ignorant about their Church and the Bible, and immersed in a lifestyle of blatant sin (e.g., shacking up, regular drunkenness, support of abortion, using artificial birth control, etc.).

Rather you should base your conclusions on the truth. It is foolish to disregard a ministry (greeters) that has the potential to bear much good fruit in your parish.

And above all else, you should submit to your priest in this matter. If your priest establishes a greeting ministry in your parish, you should support him and lend whatever help you are able.

Actually, at my church our ushers are often seen outside the knave and are available to answer questions and greet or acknowlege people with a question etc. - your definition of ushers and greeters notwithstanding. Maybe that happens because we have a few of them and they aren’t always escorting people to their seats, in fact they do that only when the seats fill up and those coming in late need to find a place to sit. Furthermore, the reasons you list for why an usher couldn’t be a greeter, are things they do after mass has started, like managing the sound system, directing traffic during communion, etc. and are no reason to prevent an usher from doing the things ushers have done at our church for years before mass has started. In fact, ushers are in a great position to greet parishioners and visitors.

I have visited many, many Catholic churches all around the world over the years and believe my personal experience to be very valid in discussing this issue. But I also wanted to hear what others think. In using my personal experience to judge this question, I am in no way suggesting that people use ONLY their personal experience in judging this issue, especially far weightier matters such as converting to Catholicism. So I think your comparison of a discussion about greeters with a decision to convert is a bit over-wrought. Again, I think official greeters are at best, unnecessary, and at worst, phony.

Ishii

 

[ac_claire]

And what about Winter months. Do you actually believe Greeters or Ushers for that matter are going to stand in a cold Atrium or Foyer at the main church doors opening and closing.

I’ve never seen this.

Yeah. In general, it’s just not necessary to have all these extra people in their various “ministries” running around the church complicating things. Catholic churches have gotten along for years and years without official “ministers” at every post ministering to us as we walk in the door, go to the restroom, the adoration chapel, find our pew, go up to Communion, and leave the church after. Obviously I’m speaking very generally here and people are going to mention the exception they know about, but seriously…going to Mass is not that complicated and I think the overall offect of adding greeters and ushers, etc. isn’t a good one. It’s just one more added thing that isn’t about the Mass IMO.

 

[Ockham]

It’s just one more added thing that isn’t about the Mass IMO.

It certainly plays right up the alley of the “look at me, I’m an important person” vanity. We go to Holy Mass to worship and receive the Lord, not view sideshows or personal performances. We are suppose to humble ourselves, not promote. All these interruptions and distractions by the laity certainly do not add to the purpose of being there. Perhaps that’s why the majority of Catholics stay home Sunday morning.

 

[Cat]

And what about Winter months. Do you actually believe Greeters or Ushers for that matter are going to stand in a cold Atrium or Foyer at the main church doors opening and closing.

I’ve never seen this.

I live in Northern Illinois, right on the stateline.

Yes, in our parishes, the greeters stand in the lobby (narthex, whatever you call it) near the main doors during the winter months. Of course.

Our church buildings are constructed in such a way that the lobbies are not freezing cold during the winter. They aren’t toasty warm, either, but when people are adequately dressed, the lobbies are comfortable. (I would say that the lobbies are actually warmer in the winter than they are in the summer air conditioning, but maybe that’s because I wear long johns and sweaters in the winter, whereas in the summer, I dress lightly.)

Yes, throughout the winter months, parishioners set up tables in the lobby (e.g., the pro-life information table, the collection for the poor table, the sign-up for the pilgrimage to Marytown table, etc.) and the parishioners sit at these tables to dispense information, and no one complains about being uncomfortable.

When the temperatures up here dip below zero, almost any part of the church building is cold. We just dress warmer.

I happen to like the cold, as do many other people up here. I know how to dress for it so that even if I am standing in front of a cold door, I’ll stay toasty.

It’s even MORE important during the dull, dark, cold winter months for greeters to provide a WARM, friendly greeting for visitors! It’s amazing how a smile and a friendly greeting can warm up a frosty day!

 

[Cat]

What are they, magic? How could they possibly know that 9 or 10 years earlier I had attended Catholic churches, rather than, say, Episcopal? Especially since, technically speaking, I was saved, having prayed “the prayer” shortly after I started attending protestant services.

Anyway, if this is the function of greeters, then we shouldn’t have them. The behavior you describe is (obviously) offensive. Guessing about the spiritual state of someone else and then praying about your guess is presumptuous. And in any case the feeling of being watched, and the even-more-pushy “Fill in a card so we can contact you if this is your first time here–hey, you, I’ve never seen you before, fill in a card” which I also encountered a couple of times, had the only effect of causing me never to go to those churches again.

I really understand and respect the sentiments behind behaviors like these, even though I dislike the behaviors themselves. It is very true that the best thing you can wish for someone else is for them to go to heaven. And if your beliefs are such that you think they can’t get there unless they are a member of your congregation (which, thankfully is NOT the case if you are Catholic), then it is an act of Christian charity to be pushy. But it still isn’t prudent as it can push people away.

Anyway, my point was that if there are going to be greeters, they should endeavor not to make people feel like someone is watching them (however benevolently) because then they will be even more uncomfortable about not knowing what to do.

–Jen

Magic?!

Do you really want to know evangelical “secrets?!” OK, I’ll tell you.

When you entered the church building, SOMEONE there knew you. You may not have known them, but they saw you, recognized you, remembered your past religious experiences, and then they started spreading the word among the other people in the congregation (the “involved” people, those interested in fulfilling the Great Commission). Within a few minutes, all the “involved” people knew that you were there and that you probably still needed to be “saved.”

Their assessment of your spiritual condition obviously was not correct. But they thought it was best not to take a chance. Better to just pray for you and trust that the LORD knows your spiritual state.

If you were a practicing Catholic, many evangelical churches assume that you are involved in a “salvation by works” church, and therefore, you will not be saved by your works. IF they were right about what the Catholic Church teaches, then they are doing a good thing by assuming that you are in danger of hellfire. The problem isn’t presumption at all, the problem is ignorance of what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation.

I still don’t see why you think it’s offensive for someone to pray that you will be “saved.” The motives are pure love (and just a little bit of desire to carve another “notch” on their evangelical pistols!). It is a good thing for people to desire the salvation of everyone, and to pray and work toward this goal. That’s what inspires us to become missionaries, or to do the work of a missionary right in your own neighborhood–a desire to win souls for Christ and His Church.

Even in the Catholic Church, we don’t assume that we’re all saved and going to heaven. We say that we “hope” to be saved, and we pray for our salvation and we ask the saints and angels to pray for our salvation. We pray for the salvation of all our brothers and sisters in the Church. So why can’t Protestants do the same?

As for “pushiness,” everyone’s definition of pushiness is different. You consider it offensive to be handed an “information card.” When my husband and I were evangelical Protestant, we appreciated the opportunity to let a church know that we were visiting and we WANTED the pastor or deacons to call us, make an appointment to visit with us, and talk about their church and whether we would be happy there. We WANTED the contact with other Christians. No one forces you to fill out the card, and no one forces you to shake hands, smile, and say hi to people. In any Protestant church (or Catholic Church, you are free to politely ignore anyone and to bypass any activity (e.g., hand-holding, clapping, etc.) that you feel is not right.

 

[Sarabande]

Of course, it is everything together, most importantly the example set by the pastor, obviously. I never said, just get a beautiful church with statues and “voila” -you get a traditional church. Also, just because the church is modern looking, doesn’t mean that the liturgy or the pastor is liberal… But in general, in my experience, the crucifix, the tabernacle, votive candles, statues of mary and the saints all help to instill a reverence among the parishioners along with the pastor’s example. I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on here…

Ishii

I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all. I agreed that there was probably some truth in what you expressed with regard to the architecture and such and just gave an example of how the new pastor totally destroyed the reverence of a parish even with a church that had all those things too. My apologies if it was misunderstood.

 

[tweetymom]

It certainly plays right up the alley of the “look at me, I’m an important person” vanity. We go to Holy Mass to worship and receive the Lord, not view sideshows or personal performances. We are suppose to humble ourselves, not promote. All these interruptions and distractions by the laity certainly do not add to the purpose of being there. Perhaps that’s why the majority of Catholics stay home Sunday morning.

I go to Mass to worship and praise God. I am not in the business of vanity as you call it.Or have a side show.What is an interruption saying Good Morning with a smile instead of a frown and not speaking? Perhaps the majority of Catholics staying home is the unfriendlyness of the Community. Our Parish is growing everyday and we have a hugh RCIA class every year, partly because we are friendly. Christ said by our fruits we will be known. Maybe some need to check the fruits of the Spirit and see if they have any. God Bless you and Peace.

 

[Ockham]

I don’t recall “friendliness” being a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit. Wisdom, counsel, fear of the Lord, and the others should be part of the reasons people go to church. The point many here are making is not to be negative or hostile towards our fellow parishioners, but to discourage this “Sandalistas” mentality of manufactured ministries and emphasis on the laity. If a big group hug is what people are looking for there are plenty of other denominations to get that.

 

[tweetymom]

I don’t recall “friendliness” being a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit. Wisdom, counsel, fear of the Lord, and the others should be part of the reasons people go to church. The point many here are making is not to be negative or hostile towards our fellow parishioners, but to discourage this “Sandalistas” mentality of manufactured ministries and emphasis on the laity. If a big group hug is what people are looking for there are plenty of other denominations to get that.

Fruits of the Spirit: Love ,Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Faith, Meekness, & Temperence. How can you have all of these and not be friendly.?

There is no manufactured or emphasis on the laity!!! We are trying to show the Spirit of love for one another. Maybe thats why so many leave the Catholic Church, because the fruits of the Spirit are missing.
I am thankful I have love for others and do not show otherwise:clapping::extrahappy:

 

[Ockham]

Kumbya

 

[tweetymom]

Kumbya

Kumbya why don’t you speak English?

 

[revert_jen]

When you entered the church building, SOMEONE there knew you. You may not have known them, but they saw you, recognized you, remembered your past religious experiences…

Again we’re in the realm of magic if someone knows my past religious experiences and I’ve never met them before. I do not live in a small town.

I still don’t see why you think it’s offensive for someone to pray that you will be “saved.”

Given their theology, praying that I would be saved, implies that I am not already saved, which is an offensive judgment to make about anyone (again, given their theology, which says that if I am not “saved” I am on the road to Hell).

In any case, I never felt that they were looking at me in spiritual judgment (you are the one who said they were doing that). I just thought they were looking at me out of curiosity, and being shy in new situations, that made me uncomfortable.

Even in the Catholic Church, we don’t assume that we’re all saved and going to heaven.

Had they been Catholic, it would not have been offensive because praying for my eventual salvation would not be making a negative judgment about my current spiritual state.

As for “pushiness,” everyone’s definition of pushiness is different. You consider it offensive to be handed an “information card.”

Actually, mentioning the existence of information cards, and telling people where to find them, isn’t pushy. Having the person next to you say, “I don’t know you so you have to fill out a card” is pushy and off-putting (rather than offensive). Also, making all the first-time attendees stand so that people can come bring them cards, while everyone stares at them, and again with people around you telling you to stand up, is also pushy and off-putting. Both of these have happened to me–the first one, more than once.

In these cases I was church-shopping. I didn’t know yet whether I was going to like the church enough to want people to be calling me and telling me about their church, as I wanted to decide for myself. If I had people calling me and spending time following up, then I would feel obligated to attend their church (for a while, anyway) even if it wasn’t what I was looking for. Or alternatively, I would have had to tell them what I didn’t like about their church, which would not be pleasant for either of us. When I decided, after a few attendances, that I had found the church I was looking for, I made myself known to the people in the church and joined Bible studies, etc.

Perhaps I was being unreasonable–people seem to find me either paranoid or easily offended, and they may be right. The only point that is even remotely relevant to this thread is that I am unlikely to be the only one with these failings so people who are going to be greeters should be aware of people like me.

In addition, I think people may need to be reminded that it is not a sin to be shy. Also that it is possible to love your neighbor without being outgoing.

I can also conceive of situations where a Protestant is just at the beginning of his/her journey to the Church and is not ready to be contacted. I can remember in some of Scott Hahn’s writing where he talked about going into a chapel and sort of hiding in the back as God brought him to see the truth of the Real Presence. He wasn’t ready to talk to people about the discovery and I think he might have been scared off for a time if people hadn’t let him alone for a while.

Just my :twocents:

I’ll try to be less autobiographical in the future as it appears to tend toward derailing the discussion.

–Jen

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I don’t recall “friendliness” being a gift or fruit of the Holy Spirit. Wisdom, counsel, fear of the Lord, and the others should be part of the reasons people go to church. The point many here are making is not to be negative or hostile towards our fellow parishioners, but to discourage this “Sandalistas” mentality of manufactured ministries and emphasis on the laity. If a big group hug is what people are looking for there are plenty of other denominations to get that.

HI sweetie you need a hug!:hug1: you are Loved Love of Christ Nancy

You realy can draw more bees with honey

 

[Ockham]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I need Christ, not a hug from a “minister of greetings”. When I walk into a church I’m there to be with Him, not you. It confounds me why some people feel the need to get in between the Christian and Christ.

 

[tcm22]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I need Christ, not a hug from a “minister of greetings”. When I walk into a church I’m there to be with Him, not you. It confounds me why some people feel the need to get in between the Christian and Christ.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Even if you don’t want a hug, a simple “Good Morning” offered by a greeter certainly doesn’t come between you and Jesus.

 

[Ockham]

Sorry to pop your balloon, but the greeters I’ve encountered are a definite distraction and unnecessary obstacle between the door and tabernacle. The symbolism is eerie.