T
Thepeug
Guest
The Seven Storey Mountain, Contemplation in a World of Action, and No Man is an Island are incredibly enriching books. I especially enjoyed No Man is an Island.
- Status
S
saieditor
Guest
Merton is OK.
He was a seeker and for the benefit of others he documented his path, warts and all. At least he was honest.
He is the early days for monastic interfaith dialog and the Dalai Llama called him a “Catholic Geshe”.
He was a seeker and for the benefit of others he documented his path, warts and all. At least he was honest.
He is the early days for monastic interfaith dialog and the Dalai Llama called him a “Catholic Geshe”.
D
DavidPalm
Guest
The mother of one of my best friends also helped care for Merton when he was in the hospital. He did a lot more than talk to the nurse with whom he was infatuated and, according to my friend’s mother at least, he was crassly open about it. I agree with those who advise to stay away from Merton. Why bother, with the writings of so many excellent saints to choose from?
J
Jacafamala
Guest
Why bother with him? Well, whatever his failings, he had a true gift as a poet.
R
redrosetea
Guest
I think in his early years he had a child out of wedlock…I was watching a BBC presentation about a monastery, and one of the monks said, desire stay with us all till the last nail is put in our coffin
I am sorry to hear he succumbed…I hope he was headed back to God before he died
I
I_Believe
Guest
I think he wanted to be a monk, but couldn’t simply be one. A restless man who wanted to form his own brand of Catholic spirituality.
Obviously, many are attracted to his writings, but like David said, I’ll stick with the solid writings of those like St Alphonsus.
Obviously, many are attracted to his writings, but like David said, I’ll stick with the solid writings of those like St Alphonsus.
S
Snerticus
Guest
Because Merton was a child of God, who struggled just like the rest of us wretched souls. Who also unfortunately gave in from time to time just like the rest of us.
Don’t you think all those “excellent saints” had any bad habits or failings? Did you ever hear of St. Jerome? Do you think that all the people of his time thought he would become a saint? (Don’t start comparing Thomas Merton to St. Jerome - it’s just an example of the “human” failings of the saints. I know Merton is not a canonized saint. But if I researched I’m sure I can find some doozies in the saintly world. Probably would be a good separate thread on saints and their human faults.)
Judge not for you too will be judged with the same measure.
N
nobeerinheaven
Guest
Character is an important element in analyzing the works of apparent contemplatives. Although it is possible to enter into real contemplative prayer with God and fall into mortal sin, from the writings of St. Teresa of Avila, one gathers that such a thing is just shy of impossible. In fact, as one progresses past the stage of the first dark night it seems that it is almost impossible to commit an intentional venial sin because of the abyss of grace in God one becomes sustained by. In particular, it would seem very difficult to fall into sins of this type if Thomas Merton ever actually attained to contemplation with God, which starts at the first dark night of sense, as those in this night and who have progressed past it have almost no strong temptations of a sensible variety. That is what this night is all about, purging one’s attachment to the sensible (and of course, the mortal sin of fornication would signal an extreme attachment to the sensible, not detachment from it).
If this is true about Thomas Merton, his writings about contemplative prayer and mortification would be about as important a contribution to the Church as the writings of Martin Luther. That is, not much at all (and good Catholics would be wisely recommended to stay away from the whole corpus of his writings: early and later). This is not to slander the man, as I hope that these things are not true and if they are true he repented of them before death. Yet, as St. Francis de Sales points out, pointing out the sins of another for the sake of calling out a wolf in sheep’s clothing is obligatory, let alone not sinful. These events with the nurse are, in my mind, the main reason not to take Merton seriously as a writer on prayer (and to take with a large dose of suspicion everything he may have said positively about centering prayer). That, and the events of his death are themselves a little shocking. One of the fifteen promises Mary makes to those who pray the rosary is “Whoever shall recite the rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.” That he died without the final graces of the Church is, at the very least, not a good sign. Indeed, even the quite holy and very wise Fr. John Hardon S.J. seemed to have held him at arm’s length (see here).
D
djeter
Guest
I’ve posted a couple of book recommendations for Merton with a number of reading selections.
Seven Storey Mountain
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/11/09/book-recommendation-the-seven-storey-mountain-thomas-merton/
and
The Ascent To Truth
payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/11/18/book-recommendation-the-ascent-to-truth-by-thomas-merton/
I’ve seen some on these forums caution others on Merton’s mysticism but the sheer force of his narrative on his conversion as well as his ability to communicate the meditative spirit of Catholicism is for me what makes him so compelling.
Take a glance at this stuff – it will propel you to read more. But remember the cautionary tones of others, it’s not without reason.
dj
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
My best advice is do not read Merton if your faith is not rock solid. By the same token do not undertake to become an anthropology major if your faith is not rock solid (just see what happened to Joseph Campbell).
As I posted earlier, I have read most of Merton’s work. I would like to have seen what he had to say about his time with the Buddhists in SE Asia. I look at Merton as a “prophet” of his time. Not “prophet” in the sense of prophetic but as a commentator on his culture at the time. Face it y’all, he was a convert to HMC before we started thinking about Vatican II. He does offer a different viewpoint. BUT (and that is a very big but) he does not speak for HMC. He is simply another voice just as Fulton Sheen was another voice.
I can read about archetypal myth (there goes that Osiris stuff) but it does not challenge my faith. Neither does listening to the Dalai Lama who does indeed have many valid comments on the state of humankind. Thomas Merton is not Thomas Aquinas but that does not mean that he should not be read.
As I posted earlier, I have read most of Merton’s work. I would like to have seen what he had to say about his time with the Buddhists in SE Asia. I look at Merton as a “prophet” of his time. Not “prophet” in the sense of prophetic but as a commentator on his culture at the time. Face it y’all, he was a convert to HMC before we started thinking about Vatican II. He does offer a different viewpoint. BUT (and that is a very big but) he does not speak for HMC. He is simply another voice just as Fulton Sheen was another voice.
I can read about archetypal myth (there goes that Osiris stuff) but it does not challenge my faith. Neither does listening to the Dalai Lama who does indeed have many valid comments on the state of humankind. Thomas Merton is not Thomas Aquinas but that does not mean that he should not be read.
S
Shin
Guest
I avoid his writings, and have never had any desire to read them.
I do not recommend them others, needless to say.
Why read books on the spiritual life by someone who did not know what he was doing and mixes truth and error together, so that you could easily slip into it yourself if not careful?
Read the saints. They will not have this fellow’s problems. If you’ve read all of them, then perhaps you will have time for this fellow. Ha!
I do not recommend them others, needless to say.
Why read books on the spiritual life by someone who did not know what he was doing and mixes truth and error together, so that you could easily slip into it yourself if not careful?
Read the saints. They will not have this fellow’s problems. If you’ve read all of them, then perhaps you will have time for this fellow. Ha!
R
redrosetea
Guest
I think this is sound advice
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
You answered your question within your post. Why, indeed, read books on the spiritual life by someone who did not know what he was doing? Far easier to see where Merton made his mistakes than to try to read Thomas a’Kepmpis, or Ignatius Loyola or St. Therese’. If one has the intellectual and faith fortitude you can learn from Merton’s mistakes. I have read some of the saints and, well, they are saints. And most of our saints lived exemplary lives.I avoid his writings, and have never had any desire to read them.
I do not recommend them others, needless to say.
Why read books on the spiritual life by someone who did not know what he was doing and mixes truth and error together, so that you could easily slip into it yourself if not careful?
Read the saints. They will not have this fellow’s problems. If you’ve read all of them, then perhaps you will have time for this fellow. Ha!
You can make the argument for following the exemplary lifestyle but most of us are just folks and our lives are anything but exemplary. Neither was Merton’s. He is no saint and if you read him with that caveat firmly in mind, he has an awful lot to say on the human condition in this day and age - many of said thoughts were valid even though his condition was one of failed human.
V
Verbum_Caro
Guest
This is an interesting thread, and timely for me. I read Seven Story Mountain ages ago, and liked it. I think I may have also read his sayings of the Desert Fathers (if I recall correctly). I also had a collection of letters, and some of them seemed a bit. . . well, just not my taste. So, I had left Merton aside for a long time, and like Shin, wouldn’t recommend him.
But, just recently I stumbled across a passage or two in his book The Living Bread, about the Eucharist. I was heartened (and surprised, although in retrospect perhaps I really shouldn’t have been) that the portion I read seemed solid in regard to the Eucharist. In fact, Merton gave quite a Thomistic rendition and asserted a position that I had held for quite some time and just recently found myself defending a few weeks ago. I was a bit chagrined because I thought to myself “well, Merton gets it!” . . . and then I thought, “wait, Merton? Maybe I should reread some of those early works!”
VC
But, just recently I stumbled across a passage or two in his book The Living Bread, about the Eucharist. I was heartened (and surprised, although in retrospect perhaps I really shouldn’t have been) that the portion I read seemed solid in regard to the Eucharist. In fact, Merton gave quite a Thomistic rendition and asserted a position that I had held for quite some time and just recently found myself defending a few weeks ago. I was a bit chagrined because I thought to myself “well, Merton gets it!” . . . and then I thought, “wait, Merton? Maybe I should reread some of those early works!”
VC
W
WestonGrant
Guest
I read that he went off into Eastern religious spirituality later in his life. But his early books were good.
nd.edu/~ndethics/inspires/documents/Thomas_Merton1.pdf
V
Verbum_Caro
Guest
By the way, that link is from the Center for Ethics and Culture at Notre Dame, which I think is quite a wonderful group of people and does good work.
VC
VC
P
PadraigPearce
Guest
I’ve always wondered where Merton was headed before his death. I really like some of his earlier works, like Seeds of Contemplation and No Man is an Island, but I’ve always been a bit tentative about his later ones. For some reason he seems to be quite popular with new agers, which I can’t understand because even his later work is very Catholic, although it may not be free from error.
I read in a biography of him that he was quite upset at some of the changes in the mass after vatican II, especially the loss of latin.
I read in a biography of him that he was quite upset at some of the changes in the mass after vatican II, especially the loss of latin.
N
nobeerinheaven
Guest
The difference between St. Thomas and Merton, at least generally speaking, is that St. Thomas’ corpus covers a broad range of topics, but focuses particularly on general - or “systematic” - theology. This is a topic that can be done without heroic virtue because theology is essentially a rational exposition of revelation. Heroic virtue and deep piety are, of course, wonderful tools for the discernment of theology’s proper exposition. Yet, even not very holy people can write good theology. Thomas Merton wrote very much about prayer, or as it used to be called “mystical theology.” Unlike theology broadly, mystical theology is only good if and when it gets one close to God and articulates the path in prayer and mortification that brings one close to Him by making Him pleased to draw close to that soul. Yet when God draws near a soul, He fills it with grace and makes it holy. This is why, for instance, the Church uses as a tool for discerning true apparitions from false ones the presence of a marked increase in the sanctity of those to whom the apparent apparition has been directed.
In Thomas Merton’s case, the allegation that he fell in “love” (and yet there is no love where God’s will is negated, as it certainly was in this case) or, worse, had an affair with a nurse is equivalent to a match set against all his writings on mystical theology because they are strong evidence that Merton was not truly close to God (or at least had not attained to contemplative prayer, beyond perhaps the very first stages of the first dark night). If he was never truly close to God in contemplative prayer, then he has very poor credibility when describing that path that draws one close to God. It is theoretically possible that he accidentally seized on that path that leads to God and simply didn’t follow it, but as a rule it is better to avoid writings like this that may only accidentally get one toward God. There are plenty of saintly contemplative writers that one needn’t gamble on unreliable writings like Merton’s. I may be wrong and too hasty in this opinion; if so, please forgive me. Yet prayer is a very serious thing, and the thought that Merton’s writings have subtle problems that weave one away from that height of the divine union into some other road that eventually leads to the duplication of his sins is worrying enough that I would very much hesitate to recommend any of his writings (even to those strong in their faith).
P
peary1
Guest
Read his books. They are awesome.
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
Thomas Merton was no Thomas Aquinas by a long shot. I didn’t know Merton from the proverbial “Adam’s housecat” when a friend suggested that I read his Seven Storey Mountain. I was in grad school in anthropology at the time and had just finished reading Margaret Mead’s Blackberry Winter. The two were of the same age and I found the differences in these two autobiographies to be fascinating.
Aquinas was touched upon in religion class in my Catholic boy’s high school during the throes of Vatican II. Four years later, my younger brother did not study half the things I did in religion class. No, my exposure to Aquinas was in the context of a grad level history course on the Middle Ages (I took history courses as electives in grad school since I love both history and anthropology). Aquinas’ “Proof of the Existence of God” remains an all time stunning favorite of mine.
I realized at that point that my Catholic education was fundamental but lacking and so I did read large segments of Aquinas’ Summa, as well as a’Kempis, Loyola, and others and quickly came to the conclusion that I do not have the theological training. I see why our candidates for priesthood have such extensive training in philosophy and theology.
I later read all of Joseph Campbell’s books on myth and just look what his studies did for him…from Catholic to what? Agnostic at best?
God can bring good out of evil. The fact that Merton fell and fell way short of the glory of God while in a very public place (certainly more public than mine) is ultimately a story of God’s grace.
As far as the contemplative prayer aspect, I wonder what insights Merton might have brought back from the Buddhist Monks. As I said earlier, even the Dalai Lama can have correct insights into the human condition.
Merton is, well, Merton. I was certainly raised a traditional Catholic and I view Merton through that lens. He should be read and understood through that lens. That lens provides powerful insight into the mind of at least some of HMC in those years of V II and, sadly, gives some reasons as to how we find ourselves in HMC today.
Aquinas was touched upon in religion class in my Catholic boy’s high school during the throes of Vatican II. Four years later, my younger brother did not study half the things I did in religion class. No, my exposure to Aquinas was in the context of a grad level history course on the Middle Ages (I took history courses as electives in grad school since I love both history and anthropology). Aquinas’ “Proof of the Existence of God” remains an all time stunning favorite of mine.
I realized at that point that my Catholic education was fundamental but lacking and so I did read large segments of Aquinas’ Summa, as well as a’Kempis, Loyola, and others and quickly came to the conclusion that I do not have the theological training. I see why our candidates for priesthood have such extensive training in philosophy and theology.
I later read all of Joseph Campbell’s books on myth and just look what his studies did for him…from Catholic to what? Agnostic at best?
God can bring good out of evil. The fact that Merton fell and fell way short of the glory of God while in a very public place (certainly more public than mine) is ultimately a story of God’s grace.
As far as the contemplative prayer aspect, I wonder what insights Merton might have brought back from the Buddhist Monks. As I said earlier, even the Dalai Lama can have correct insights into the human condition.
Merton is, well, Merton. I was certainly raised a traditional Catholic and I view Merton through that lens. He should be read and understood through that lens. That lens provides powerful insight into the mind of at least some of HMC in those years of V II and, sadly, gives some reasons as to how we find ourselves in HMC today.
- Status