What do you think of Thomas Merton?

[tpw]

And what was Fulton Sheen?

Thomas Merton was not only a creation of the media of the time - he was also a creation of his superiors at his monastery. As the story goes, he wanted to tell the whole truth of his wayward life in his “famous” Seven Storey Mountain - but his superiors “censored” it to the point that a lot of what Merton really was was simply excised. That’s the story.
Then he became the darling of Claire Booth Luce of the Time magazine’s fortune and power. That’s how he became published to begin with.
You know you need to avoid his material when what appear to be devoted readers of his on this thread warn you here that your faith must be “rock solid” before you read his stuff. Well said. And 'nuff said. Ask yourself - does your faith need to be “rock solid” to read the Bible? Augustine’s Confessions? Of course not. Those readings bring the wayward toward the truth - with no “danger” of reading without the prerequisite of “rock solid” faith.
Merton abandoned his unborn child when he was 18 in England. His “guardian” bought off the mother of his child that he never made any attempt to care for or know. He ran off to the States. After 7 YEARS of supposedly toying around with entering monastic life - he was “struck” with his “vocational calling” within hours of the “Day that will live in Infamy”- Dec 7, 1941. At a time when all young 25 year-olds were lining up to sacrifice their lives defending our country and Allies - Merton hops a train from New York to Kentucky and presents himself at the monastery gate for admission. Quite inspiring (not).
In later years, once he was made to be a media star - he demanded and got to live separately in his own building on the far side of the monastery property. There he “entertained” a later love of his life - a nurse he lusted after who had cared for him when he had an illness.
Merton is no different than Salinger and Fromm - all media creations who found their way onto “suggested reading lists” as if they were wholesome food for the mind. There are countless better things to read.
Why read a guy who with any given step down his path can begin to lead you the WRONG way? And this reality is admitted to by his “fans”. Spend your time elsewhere.

 

[30miller]

If Merton is so bad what must you think of John Paul II"s invitation to representatives of the world’s religions to “come together and pray” at Assisi in 1986?

I think the same of the way JPII’s Assisi initiative played out in fact as I do about his complete and utter neglect of the clergy abuse issue during his tenure as pope. But this thread is about Merton - and I reiterate what I stated earlier that there is such a great supply of excellent Catholic writing available that no one should waste their time reading what Merton’s own fans on this very thread repeatedly warn may be questionable writings.

 

[30miller]

And what was Fulton Sheen?

Very likely a future Saint in the Cathoic Church!

 

[barb_finnegan]

Back in the early 1970s when I started my first job, my ‘best friend’ whom I met there let me borrow her copy of ‘The Seven Story Mountain’. She and I often had little ‘clashes’ because she was a liberal Catholic and I was a conservative Catholic. The book was all right, I guess…it was all so long ago!

Then in the mid 70s I talked to a priest whom I greatly liked in the parish I was in at that time. He gave me at one of our ‘appointments’ his copy of Merton’s ‘Contemplative Prayer’. It was a little over my head, but I read it anyway, and gave it back to him when I finished it.

It was sad the way Merton’s life ended-getting electrocuted in the shower. One can only hope that his restless soul found peace.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I have read some Merton (7 Story Mountain, No Man is an Island, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander- by far my favorite), and I have read most of what Henri Nouwen, who was a student of Meton, has written. Actually, I have read quite a lot about religion, spirituality and the Catholic faith becasue I am studying pastoral ministry and theology.

I am new to CAF, and have learned quite a bit, and have found some very useful links and discussion here. I have also found a lot of hostility, animosity and down-right un-Christian attitudes and behaviors. Which brings me to my question,

 Why does it seem that things always have to be ***either/or ***and not ***        both/and***?

Is Thomas Merton for everybody?
No.
But just because I may or may not like or agree with what the writer is saying,
does not mean that I cannot still learn from it.
Just because someone does not fit into a nice little box that another considers “Catholic” does not mean that the person is wrong, just different.

Were we not all created in God’s image and do we not all look different?
God made all of us unique, but in His image.
Who are we to imply that this same uniqueness should not be used to express our love for God?

 

[tpw]

I asked about Fulton Sheen since he visited Merton a number of times at Gethsemane. Clearly Sheen wasn’t fearful of Merton as some on this post seem to be.

Merton, God bless him, was deeply immersed in the Roman Catholic tradition and continued his growth as a religious man. No where did he ever discuss leaving the Catholic Church although he had to deal with the limited minds and hearts of churchmen and others who failed to see what God graced him to see.

And now, like so many of the great lights of the Church, others realized by Vatican II that a new approach to the world’s great religions was necessary.

That’s fine if you don’t want to go there. It’s not for everyone. But for those who are called into dialogue should not be victimized by the empty and thoughtless accusations of others.

Roman Catholicism is a big house filled with many rooms. Not all rooms need be entered into.

God bless

 

[Verbum_Caro]

I asked about Fulton Sheen since he visited Merton a number of times at Gethsemane. Clearly Sheen wasn’t fearful of Merton as some on this post seem to be.

Could you elaborate on those visits? I didn’t know about them – where could one learn of them?

On a different note, I’ve not seen anyone afraid of Merton on this thread. It seemed more like concern to me. And it strikes me that the fact Fulton Sheen visited Merton doesn’t mean that Merton is or isn’t x or y, unless we can discover more, with your help, about why Fulton Sheen visited Merton.

VC

 

[30miller]

And now, like so many of the great lights of the Church, others realized by Vatican II that a new approach to the world’s great religions was necessary.

That’s fine if you don’t want to go there. It’s not for everyone. But for those who are called into dialogue should not be victimized by the empty and thoughtless accusations of others.

Roman Catholicism is a big house filled with many rooms. Not all rooms need be entered into.

God bless

Funny thing - Jesus didn’t mention “the world’s great religions” when he said: "…John 14:5-11 - Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

7 If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him.

8 Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us.

9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

10 Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

11 Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?..".
pain
So, from one who the poster would demonize as “…empty and thoughtless…” and not a “…great lights of the Church…” - I’ll follow Jesus and John 14. You follow Merton 6:11.

 

[30miller]

I asked about Fulton Sheen since he visited Merton a number of times at Gethsemane. Clearly Sheen wasn’t fearful of Merton as some on this post seem to be.

Sheen was brilliant - unlike most of us. He quoted Merton on numerous occasions on Life is Worth Living. Sheen had “converted” Clair Booth Luce - and she in turn made Merton a media star. So what. No one ever said that EVERYTHING Merton wrote is questionable. And Sheen was quoting him during Merton’s most sincere period - i.e. between when he was fathering children out of wedlock in England - and when he was carrying on a love affair with M. (M was his CODE for his lover when he wrote of her in his journal) - and that’s a “man” 51 years old carrying on with a 25 year old - he wouldn’t even write out her name.
Your illogic would lead one to conclude that since Jesus personally picked Judas Iscariot as one of His chosen twelve and lived and travelled with him for years - that we should therefore seek out and follow Judas. I think not. There is an endless supply of better Catholic writers to read than the questionable Merton - so don’t waste your time on him as it is better spent elsewhere. Pray that Merton rests in peace.

 

[tpw]

I read about Sheen’s visits in one of the collections of Merton’s journals which began to be published in 1995. I have no idea what they discussed since Merton had many, many visitors and didn’t record their discussions.

The concern about Merton is ill-founded. Merton had every intention of remaining Catholic despite his interest in Buddhism. There were all kinds of rumors about him especially as he began his Asian pilgrimmage. But Merton insisted he had every intention of remaining a Catholic monk.

His interest in eastern religions was sparked far before the council and was supplemented by the greater interest among monastics both Catholic and Buddhist to grow in familiarity with each other. His Asian trip was the first step in this dialogue. The monastic dialogue continues to this day.

Please remember the Council in Nostrae Aetate - the document on non-Christian religions - pledged to recognize all that was good and holy in other religious traditions. It’s certainly better than encouraging misunderstanding and promoting violence.

And if you look carefully such dialogue pays off. One example has been the union of Catholics and Muslims on the abortion issue in the international realm.

The key in inter-religious dialogue is clarifying and retaining a clearer sense of one’s own position while learning from others. Where inter-religious dialogue becomes problematic is when people lose the value of their own tradition. That’s what Benedict is so concerned about and rightfully so.

It comes down to Christology and how one understands the person of Jesus Christ. Again, that’s why Benedict’s book on Jesus is a helpful contribution to the larger dialogue among religions.

QUOTE=Verbum Caro;6566325]Could you elaborate on those visits? I didn’t know about them – where could one learn of them?

On a different note, I’ve not seen anyone afraid of Merton on this thread. It seemed more like concern to me. And it strikes me that the fact Fulton Sheen visited Merton doesn’t mean that Merton is or isn’t x or y, unless we can discover more, with your help, about why Fulton Sheen visited Merton.

VC

 

[tpw]

Sheen converted no one - that’s the role of the Holy Spirit, thank you.

Merton was a well-known writer as a graduate student at Columbia in the late 1930’s. Even at that point he was writing book reviews for the NY Times.

“Sincere period…”? Hmmm Merton was writing about Asian religions and other religions as early as the late 1950’s. Maybe he was teaching AB Sheen about inter-religious dialogue?

The reason he never printed her name was out of concern for her privacy and dignity and to keep suspicious and hateful persons from exploiting both of them. And Merton had angered enough Catholic conservatives who HATED his writings against war, nuclear weapons and racism that it was certainly prudent and wise on his part to do this.

Sad that you are filled with so self-righteous bile, suspicion and hatred of another imperfect human being who nonetheless made great contributions to the church. And falling in love with someone is not the worst thing that can happen to a Catholic priest. In many cases it makes them better priests if they decide to remain priests.

If it weren’t for my discovery of Thomas Merton in the late 1970’s, I don’t know whether I would have remained Catholic. His writings deepened my faith and helped me grow in love for an imperfect church. His writing has done the same for many, many Catholics who were introduced to his work from the 1940’s onward. Thank God for Thomas Merton.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

The reason he never printed her name was out of concern for her privacy and dignity and to keep suspicious and hateful persons from exploiting both of them.
. . .
And falling in love with someone is not the worst thing that can happen to a Catholic priest. In many cases it makes them better priests if they decide to remain priests.

I’m not sure I understand all of the history involved here, but I assume the allegations that he fathered children out of wedlock (whilst a priest? or no?) and that he had a romantic relationship (physical? or no?) with a young woman while a priest are true?

If so, do you approve of those actions?

VC

 

[ChadS]

I’m not sure I understand all of the history involved here, but I assume the allegations that he fathered children out of wedlock (whilst a priest? or no?) and that he had a romantic relationship (physical? or no?) with a young woman while a priest are true?

If so, do you approve of those actions?

VC

It is true that he fathered a child (singular) our of wedlock. This was long prior to him becoming a priest. He attempted to make contact with them, at the request of monastery’s directors, before he was admitted to the Cistercian order. All attempts to contact them or even find their whereabouts were unsuccessful, leading him to believe that both mother and child were killed during the London blitz. So, when he entered the Cistercians they were well aware of his past.

I’m not too familiar with the second romantic relationship, but from what I understand it occurred during a time he was hospitalized with a severe illness while a monk. As far as I am aware they never consummated the relationship and both ended it before the relationship could progress further than it already had. In any event he remained a monk and a Catholic priest.

ChadS

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Thank you for the information Chad.

VC

 

[tpw]

1. Merton fathered a child out of wedlock when he was 19 year old university student in Cambridge. His godfather apparently gave the young woman some sort of compensation, pullled Merton out of Cambridge and sent him to the US to live with relatives in NY. He subsequently entered Colombia College. The young woman and the child he fathered were later killed in WWII during the bombing of London.

This was several years before he entered the church. Up until this time he had virtually no religious instruction. Both of his parents were dead by the time he was 16. He bounced between relatives and a godparent in England and the US while attending a boarding school in England.

Merton ALWAYS regretted the entire affair. He saw this as one more step towards his growing realization and disgust with himself which contributed to his conversion as described in his biography the Seven Story Mountain.

1. I’m sorry but priests do fall in love. I was once told if a priest is really doing his job - he will fall in love and then have to deal with the vocational consequences.

The young woman was not a parishioner or someone who Merton was advising. She was a young nurse. Merton always denied that they had a sexual relationship. He broke off the relationship after several months. Is it the best thing? Probably not. Is it human? All too human. It was one more thing that I learned to appreciate Merton for - his fundamental flawed humanity yet always striving to live a life of holiness…

He later said he was really taught what human love was through that relationship. It was the best relationship with a woman that he’d ever had.

What often bothers me about questions about Merton is the unforgiving and sanctimonious tones that surround the shortcomings of his life. If anything he teaches us that we can be forgiven. I don’t know about you, but I surely appreciate this!

I’m not saying you’re doing that at all. You’re simply raising a question. I hope this helps.

Thanks,
tpw

 

[30miller]

Merton fathered a child out of wedlock … The young woman and the child he fathered were later killed in WWII during the bombing of London…

 

[Dorothy]

This is an interesting thread, and timely for me. I read Seven Story Mountain ages ago, and liked it. I think I may have also read his sayings of the Desert Fathers (if I recall correctly). I also had a collection of letters, and some of them seemed a bit. . . well, just not my taste. So, I had left Merton aside for a long time, and like Shin, wouldn’t recommend him.

But, just recently I stumbled across a passage or two in his book The Living Bread, about the Eucharist. I was heartened (and surprised, although in retrospect perhaps I really shouldn’t have been) that the portion I read seemed solid in regard to the Eucharist. In fact, Merton gave quite a Thomistic rendition and asserted a position that I had held for quite some time and just recently found myself defending a few weeks ago. I was a bit chagrined because I thought to myself “well, Merton gets it!” . . . and then I thought, “wait, Merton? Maybe I should reread some of those early works!”

VC

I too read Seven Storey Mountain, The Living Bread, and The Ascent to Truth, …also several others of his early works. I would definitely recommend those early books to others, with the explanation about some of his later works and leanings. The books I read of his were very helpful and inspiring to my spiritual life.

 

[tpw]

1)
This is a Merton legend - please quote one objective source for this “killed in London bombing” legend.

ALWAYS? What’s the source of this intimate revelation? Does ALWAYS include while he was romancing the 25 year old (approx. 7 years younger than his own abandoned child) nurse in the “private housing” he demanded on the far grounds of the monastery secluded away from his brother monks?

He didn’t romance her in his
Just a guess - but this gem doesn’t come from any of the Fathers or Doctors or Saints of the Church?

What’s an objective source of this claim?

Merton wrote no “Confessions” as Augustine did. Another Merton legend: his “superiors” wouldn’t permit him to. Therefore no presumption of forgiveness is due him. No presumption of NOT having been forgiven either for that matter - THAT is the main problem with Merton. Nobody knows and there is not anywhere near enough evidence to point either way. It’s very irresponsible to presume either way - and THAT, along with the questionable directions he leads in his writings, is more than enough reason to simply put those writings aside and pursue the countless other great Catholic writing available. (Also - See the link to opinion the great Fr. Hardon S.J. wrote on Merton in post #28 on this thread).

 

[tpw]

Read his journals, read Mark Shaw’s “Under the Mask of Holiness”, read his biographers…
Merton’s superiors cut-out nearly 1/3 of the contents of Seven Story Mountain so as not to scandalize the faithful. But since you refuse to read anything by or about Merton since everything to you is “Merton mythology” why bother looking at any references?

Merton liked Augusgtine as well. What’s your point? Merton was well aware of his short-comings. The fact that he entered a monastery dedicating his life to prayer and reflection should say something.

He didn’t romance M. in his hermitage - absolutely no written evidence of this.

Believe it or not - all romantic relationships do not fit some presumably “pre-ordained” age model. In other parts of the world it’s not uncommon for an older man to become involved with a younger woman. And it happens in this country as well.

Merton was an imperfect monk and never once said otherwise…sorry you don’t like his work or see his life as nothing but scandalous. Don’t read him then and let those of us who find him edifying learn from him. No one asked you to embrace any form of spirituality which is not fitting for you.

 

[mangy_dog]

Any of you Traditional Catholics Merton fans or do you avoid his writings? I read his *Seven Story Mountain *and enjoyed it because I love (auto)biographies and was fascinated to learn about the Trappist monk lifestyle. I haven’t read his spiritual books, though, because a friend recommended I avoid that “liberal.”

He’s my favorite!

I have (and read) several of his books.

My two favorites are “Thoughts in Solitude” and “Seeds of Contemplation” (the old version).

These two I’ve read a few times.