What do you think of Thomas Merton?

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Perhaps this prayer, from Thoughts in Solitude, provides some insight into Merton:

MY LORD GOD,

I have no idea where I am going.

I do not see the road ahead of me.

I cannot know for certain where it will end.

Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that

I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so.

But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you.

And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing.

I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire.

And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it.

Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death.

I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

Amen
  • Thomas Merton, “Thoughts in Solitude
To me, this evidences a very humble, utterly sincere faith.
 
Thanks posting Merton’s Prayer!🙂

That prayer brought me back to the Catholic Church. I was did not know who Thomas Merton was when I found it. It was in a Rosary Booklet that belonged to an elderly (she was 93) friend of mine who had passed away. I had been away from the Church for nearly 15 years. During that time I “church-shopped”, exploring Protestant and non-denominational churches, and the obligatory family weddings, funerals and other sacramental celebrations in the Catholic church.

When I read this prayer, it was like someone was reading my mind.
These words were my words.

I started my day with this prayer and daily Mass.
I found a good spiritual director.
I starting learning more about my faith.
I started reading more, taking classes in theology.
My motives in the beginning were to expose what I thought was wrong with the Church
and work to change it to fit what I thought the Church should be like.
What I have learned, in part from this prayer,
is that is NOT, has never been, and never will be MY WILL,
and I will never have any peace in my life unless I let ***GOD’S WILL ***work through me.

Say what you will about Merton.
He helped to bring this lost sheep back to the fold!:getholy:
 
Dear Oneofthewomen
That is a wonderful story, so happy that Merton guided you home. Your story is one that is similar to mine in a way. I took some courses with Peter Kreeft who had us read many different types of authors, Merton among them. I took the courses with Dr. Kreeft in 1970 or 1971 because although raised a Catholic, I never dreamed that Catholicism would have been so right about everything and wanted to explore other avenues of thought. The first book I found was “Thoughts in Solitude” and read it cover to cover, then read it again. I went to every book store I could find and picked up as many C. S. Lewis and Thomas Merton books that I could afford. Besides the Lewis books, I devoured New Seeds of Contemplation, The New Man, Contemplative Prayer, The Ascent to Truth etc. I suddenly found myself praying again, and knew deep down that these were men that would be my mentors. When I graduated in 1973, and came home, I used to visit Catholic Churches and sit there by myself not feeling ready to go to a public Mass. A priest (a very holy priest at that) saw me come in after Mass and pray. He came over to me and we chatted for a while and he asked me to come visit him that Saturday. When I told him that I loved to visit churches and just sit there praying quietly, he said there was a man that felt as I did. He said his name was Thomas Merton. I told him that I had read a few of his books. He asked if I had read The Seven Storey Mountain. I hadn’t read that one yet. Well, that book blew me away, because what I was feeling was expressed so beautifully through Merton.
 
30 Miller:

Your points are well taken. I hadn’t seen the Paulist RENEW 2000 program and I find the notion of Merton as Saint to be laughable, if not downright goofy. To that extent, I think I would find Merton on my side in that argument but I sense you see him too much as a self promoter to see that irony.

As for “the ‘millions of devoted readers’ falls into a characterization I don’t accept any more than I accept that there were a million men at Louis Farakhan’s Million Man March in D.C…” I think you are ignoring the considerable evidence of those who have been genuinely moved by Merton – as evidenced just on this forum. C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, and Tom Merton seem to me to have a great deal in common although in different ways. While the first two make their appeal through apologetics, Merton’s ability to capture the essence of spirituality and his life journey seem to stand out. Now the million man march hype is just numbers but Merton’s claims are embodied in those who swear by him. I can see they irritate you but wishing them away doesn’t appear to be working for you.

In your favor is your ability to irritate those who seem to have already granted sainthood on this less than saintly man. Reminds me a bit of that opening dialogue from Lawrence of Arabia:

[Asked by reporter if he knew Lawrence]
Jackson Bentley: Yes, it was my privilege to know him and to make him known to the world. He was a poet, a scholar and a mighty warrior.
[after reporter leaves]
Jackson Bentley: *He was also the most shameless exhibitionist since Barnum & Bailey. *

But “lemmings?” OUCH. Revisit your notion of fandom. Cultivate a kinder, gentler you…

A “hermitage”? I’ve never seen it referred to anything other than a shack and in the photos I’ve seen appeared to be such.

And as this shows:

“October is a fine and dangerous season in America. It is dry and cool and the land is wild with red and gold and crimson, and all the lassitudes of August have seeped out of your blood, and you are full of ambition. It is a wonderful time to begin anything at all. …”

He was a helluva writer.

dj
 
Your points are well taken. I hadn’t seen the Paulist RENEW 2000 program and I find the notion of Merton as Saint to be laughable, if not downright goofy. To that extent, I think I would find Merton on my side in that argument but I sense you see him too much as a self promoter to see that irony.
As for “the ‘millions of devoted readers’ falls into a characterization I don’t accept any more than I accept that there were a million men at Louis Farakhan’s Million Man March in D.C…” I think you are ignoring the considerable evidence of those who have been genuinely moved by Merton – as evidenced just on this forum. C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, and Tom Merton seem to me to have a great deal in common although in different ways. While the first two make their appeal through apologetics, Merton’s ability to capture the essence of spirituality and his life journey seem to stand out…

In your favor is your ability to irritate those who seem to have already granted sainthood on this less than saintly man. Reminds me a bit of that opening dialogue from Lawrence of Arabia:

[Asked by reporter if he knew Lawrence]
Jackson Bentley: Yes, it was my privilege to know him and to make him known to the world. He was a poet, a scholar and a mighty warrior.
[after reporter leaves]
Jackson Bentley: *He was also the most shameless exhibitionist since Barnum & Bailey. *

But “lemmings?” OUCH. Revisit your notion of fandom. Cultivate a kinder, gentler you…

A “hermitage”? I’ve never seen it referred to anything other than a shack and in the photos I’ve seen appeared to be such.

And as this shows:

“October is a fine and dangerous season in America. It is dry and cool and the land is wild with red and gold and crimson, and all the lassitudes of August have seeped out of your blood, and you are full of ambition. It is a wonderful time to begin anything at all. …”

He was a helluva writer.
dj
Thank you for your reasoned response. However - though some (not millions, as I must always point out) choose to view him as a helluva writer as you say - I liken his writing skills to Obama’s so-called speaking skills. Prominent TV talking heads proclaimed tingles down their legs after Obama’s words throwing his white grandmother under the bus on the race issue in Philadelphia during the election campaign, for example. Millions beyond that (and in this case and unlike Merton’s it actually was millions) fell for the media-creation called Obama and made him the most powerful man in the world. How’s that “CHANGE” working for them now. They elected an empty suit in terms of any character or experience whatsoever. On numerous occasions I have asked co-workers and acquaintances who voted for him to share with me their take on Obama’s what-I-call “teleprompter reading” skills after some of those “memorable” speeches after which his lemmings always had no memory. The response was always absolutely nothing. No memorable lines. No memorable theme. Nothing.
Just to take the quote you mention - (and I must tell you that I always read for content and not simply for flourish) - my absolute first thought was what’s “dangerous” about October? That’s a meaningless “observation”. So I disregard that word and am left with October is a fine season. duhhhhhhhhhh. Pretty pedestrian observation to me. My next thought was what’s the great distinction between red and crimson - if that’s supposed to be language that sweeps me away, it doesn’t. Many elementary school children could come up with a better description of the fall foliage color extravaganza than that. Finally, if there is a season when people lose their lassitudes of the previous months - and are full of ambition - that season is without a doubt Spring. I struggle to think of not just myself - but others I know starting projects in October. So, once again - duhhhhhhh.
As I said Merton writes with flourish - like Obama speaks. But they are both media creations and they are men lacking in character. I can picture Merton emptying himself of his “lassitudes” while enjoying the fall foliage change in Kentucky as his abandoned child is supposedly being bombed to smithereens in London at the same time. Doesn’t sweep me away. Did he write these words during the war years for that matter?
I personally would never lump Chesterton and C.S. Lewis together with Merton. For one among many things - he was new age while they were not.
And Merton couldn’t hold the ink bottle for Chesterton’s pen. Chesterton could toss out better lines than Merton could contemplate and massage for years. “…Dim drums throbbing, in the hills half heard, Where only on a nameless throne a crownless prince has stirred, Where risen from a doubtful seat and half-attainted stall, the last knight of Europe takes weapons from the wall, The last and lingering troubadour to whom the bird has sung…” etc. (Lepanto).
Chesterton not only would never have had his name associated with Buddhism - Chesterton didn’t even consider Buddhism a religion at all, let alone one that he would dedicate his later years on.
Your observation about Merton’s RENEW 2000 Sainthood being laughable is correct. But the damage done to the Catholic’s in the pews is not. I watched my normal hard-working fellow parishoners who knew nothing of Merton be taken in by the Paulists’ subterfuge. They didn’t know any different - nor should they. They work hard and support their families and parish - then are subjected to that. And the Paulists’ chosen pied piper - Thomas Merton. You’re right - it would be laughable if not for the lies foisted on underserving folks.
And I do think that most Mertonites are properly characterized as lemmings - “one who unthinkingly joins a mass movement” - and the key word is unthinkingly. Not all - but most. Just like Obamaites.
 
How did you do that?

dj
Some of my friends, who work for the Diocese (an know me very well!;),) suggested that I talk to a particular priest.
He was newly ordained, but was a late vocation (he was in his early 40’s) and had a lot of “life experience”, so they thought he would be a good fit.

My best advice is to ask around, find a priest or deacon whom you trust and ask them for some names.

Good luck and peace be with you on your journey!
 
Some of my friends, who work for the Diocese (an know me very well!;),) suggested that I talk to a particular priest.
He was newly ordained, but was a late vocation (he was in his early 40’s) and had a lot of “life experience”, so they thought he would be a good fit.

My best advice is to ask around, find a priest or deacon whom you trust and ask them for some names.

Good luck and peace be with you on your journey!
Now that’s smart – I never thought in the plural. I always asked for “someone,” got a reference,it didn’t work out and that was the end.

dj
 
Now that’s smart – I never thought in the plural. I always asked for “someone,” got a reference,it didn’t work out and that was the end.

dj
Something I forgot to add, you can also check with your Diocese’s vocation office.
Ususally anyone discerning the priesthood or permanent diaconate is required to have a “spiritual director” so they might have a listing of those who offer the service in your area.

I believe there is also a national association of spiritual directors, but am not completely sure. I may have a link on my home computer (I am at work now), I will check and if I have it I can send you the link!
 
Just to take the quote you mention - (and I must tell you that I always read for content and not simply for flourish) - my absolute first thought was what’s “dangerous” about October? That’s a meaningless “observation”. So I disregard that word and am left with October is a fine season. duhhhhhhhhhh. Pretty pedestrian observation to me. My next thought was what’s the great distinction between red and crimson - if that’s supposed to be language that sweeps me away, it doesn’t. Many elementary school children could come up with a better description of the fall foliage color extravaganza than that. Finally, if there is a season when people lose their lassitudes of the previous months - and are full of ambition - that season is without a doubt Spring. I struggle to think of not just myself - but others I know starting projects in October. So, once again - duhhhhhhh.
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Hey what’s so “cruel” about April? And how do you “breed lilacs” out of “dead land.” You got a problem with your soil, you need mix some manure in with that…

Is that another good example of “content” reading?

Anyways the quote was about returning to school in the fall, FYI.

Holding anyone’s admiration of something up to derision isn’t “charitable,” and that will get you the boot as well on these forums. You’re entitled to your opinion of course. And you were on solid ground until the “duhhhhh.” These aren’t major league baseball forum exchanges taking place here. Folks are speaking of their faith and how they came to it. Don’t you think that they deserve a little more respect?

The sort of give and take you engage in turns into insult and put down and the moderators descend and bingo, you’re banned for a couple weeks. Hence my cautionary comment over “Lemmings.” No matter how you justify your ad hominem comments, they remain ad hominem. Essentially you’re characterizing the Merton fans here instead of analyzing why Merton is not deserving of their respect – why they cloak their admiration in a certain kind of blind fandom.

That’s a legitimate line of enquiry. Better to ask how they can put aside his abandonment of girlfriend and child, his philandering as a member of religious order with his nurse, etc. etc. You get to the same place but one gets there by ad hominem (lemmings) while the other asks for reasons for a misplaced respect. Big difference.

Hope I’m not preachy but you have some points to make and you’re not making them.

dj
 
Something I forgot to add, you can also check with your Diocese’s vocation office.
Ususally anyone discerning the priesthood or permanent diaconate is required to have a “spiritual director” so they might have a listing of those who offer the service in your area.

I believe there is also a national association of spiritual directors, but am not completely sure. I may have a link on my home computer (I am at work now), I will check and if I have it I can send you the link!
I tried the national association but it didn’t work out. Thanks for the advice though. Very helpful.

dj
 
30 Miller:

As an Obama fan (I couldn’t help but notice) I wonder if this would excite your interest:

wnd.com/index.php?pageId=74877

The question you need to answer or keep asking is how come after his election to be president of the Harvard Law Review (a most prestigious position – perhaps in all of American Law Schools) Obama chose NOT to go on to serve as a clerk for a Supreme Court justice?

And what does that have to do with John Kerry’s swift boat experience?

Hehehehe

A fascinating read…the Mansourian Candidate

dj
 
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
I must say that I never did get Elliot - and the example you post falls right in line. I was most disappointed after buying Thomas Howard’s Dove Descending which was supposed to help explain some Elliot - I still didn’t and don’t get him. I don’t even get “Cats” which supposedly derives from him. Though I love to listen to “Memory” - the lyrics are mush to me.
Hey what’s so “cruel” about April? And how do you “breed lilacs” out of “dead land.” You got a problem with your soil, you need mix some manure in with that…
Is that another good example of “content” reading?
So I guess my response to your question would be “yes”.
Anyways the quote was about returning to school in the fall, FYI.
I guess since I and everyone I knew always started right around the 1st weekend of September that I had no chance of deciphering that one. So there’s yet another reason to place it in the “not great writing” category.
These aren’t major league baseball forum exchanges taking place here.
You mean you are not really Derek Jeter?
… you’re banned for a couple weeks
Thanks for the repeated warnings but - been there, done that. So I know the routine.
… instead of analyzing why Merton is not deserving of their respect – why they cloak their admiration in a certain kind of blind fandom.
I’ll look forward to the response of the Mertonites to your observation and approach.
That’s a legitimate line of enquiry. Better to ask how they can put aside his abandonment of girlfriend and child, his philandering as a member of religious order with his nurse, etc. etc. You get to the same place…
Once again - I look forward to seeing what “place” you get to with the Mertonites with this observation.
Hope I’m not preachy but you have some points to make and you’re not making them.
Actually you are (preachy, that is) - but it’s to your credit that you seem to already be aware of that by the simple fact of your making this statement. No problem - I’m not going to search the forum rules for something to sic the gendarmes on you with. Since you seem to somehow recognize the points I make (even though I’m “not making them”) - please take them and with your genteel approach let’s see what the Mertonites tell you.
 
30 Miller:

As an Obama fan (I couldn’t help but notice) I wonder if this would excite your interest:

wnd.com/index.php?pageId=74877

The question you need to answer or keep asking is how come after his election to be president of the Harvard Law Review (a most prestigious position – perhaps in all of American Law Schools) Obama chose NOT to go on to serve as a clerk for a Supreme Court justice?

And what does that have to do with John Kerry’s swift boat experience?

Hehehehe

A fascinating read…the Mansourian Candidate

dj
Maybe there is something to your soft and genteel approach. If I had posted what you did here - I would be answering to the gendarmes by now. A complete Obama-content post on a Merton thread! I would have had Rule #xx, paragraph #yy, subparagraph#zz cited against me by now if I had done it.
Thank you for the link, though. Interesting - and despicable. Especially this man’s unbridled hatred of the unborn. I only had traced it back as far as his State Senator days when he led the forces to defeat the Child Born Alive Act in Illinois. A star player of the Culture of Death.
 
You guys fascinate me. Let me know when you’re done patting each other on the back.
 
Interesting that there are no more posts. Is it remotely possible that one person’s consistent and unyielding negative opinion of Merton has thwarted dialogue? Pity. Merton enjoyed dialogue. That’s one thing you could have possibly learned from him.
 
Interesting that there are no more posts. Is it remotely possible that one person’s consistent and unyielding negative opinion of Merton has thwarted dialogue? Pity. Merton enjoyed dialogue. That’s one thing you could have possibly learned from him.
It bothers me that I feel this way, Cephas,
but I do not think that dialogue is in the vocabulary of many of the people who
post in this forum.😦
 
It bothers me that I feel this way, Cephas,
but I do not think that dialogue is in the vocabulary of many of the people who
post in this forum.😦
Agreed! I feel badly as well. One unreasonable person has been allowed to hijack the thread.
 
Interesting that there are no more posts. Is it remotely possible that one person’s consistent and unyielding negative opinion of Merton has thwarted dialogue? Pity. Merton enjoyed dialogue. That’s one thing you could have possibly learned from him.
Merton LOVED dialogue! He loved people, in general (he used to sneak out of his hermitage and hitchhike into Bardstown to visit with a large family who lived there, and play bongo drums!!!)

He never would have regarded himself as “saintly” and would probably have laughed at anyone who called him that. One only has to read the previously cited prayer to realize that he regarded himself as a humble sinner. If we insist that one must be perfect in order to learn anything from him, we’ll have a very long wait.
 
Merton LOVED dialogue! He loved people, in general (he used to sneak out of his hermitage and hitchhike into Bardstown to visit with a large family who lived there, and play bongo drums!!!)

He never would have regarded himself as “saintly” and would probably have laughed at anyone who called him that. One only has to read the previously cited prayer to realize that he regarded himself as a humble sinner.
If we insist that one must be perfect in order to learn anything from him, we’ll have a very long wait :amen:.
 
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