B
blackrobe
Guest
A lot like disco-- sometimes entertaining, more often mildly annoying, fashionable for a little while.
JSA
JSA
- Status
P
Paganus
Guest
Ask a Wiccan what he or she believes and they will all provide different answers. Gavin & Yvonne Frost will tell you one thing, Starhawk another, the late Scott Cunningham another, etc.
Scott Cunningham’s book Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner is probably the most accessible and popular book on the subject. For one thing, it has a great focus - most Wiccans are people leaving their existing “faith community” in search of something “more.” Hence, they are solitary - at least at first. It is also very easy to read.
What are they searching for? Well, as Mr. Cunningham explains, Wiccans are into chanting, meditation, concentration, visualization, “ritual drama” and other stuff to increase their spiritual awareness. In his version of Wicca, the rituals involve candles, bells, wine and “cakes.”
Basically, they are looking for all the stuff no longer offered by most Protestant denominations - a priesthood, litanies, stations of the cross, rosary, “smells and bells”, the Mass, blessings, sacramentals, guardian angels, a sense of mystery - the good stuff that we Catholics take for granted. They are starving for this stuff.
Unfortunately, many people are programmed to look anywhere BUT to the Catholic Church for the truth, so Wiccans go in for all sorts of nonsense. Cunningham’s Thirteen Goals of a Witch are even a sort of silly parody of the Ten Commandments, in reverse - number one is “know yourself” (I guess Pythagoras was a witch) and number thirteen is “honor the goddess and god” (not suprisingly, this one often gets ditched - in many versions the “god” gets tossed).
But, essentially, the Church is what I feel they are really looking for:
They want priests - so they declare themselves priests
They want the eucharist - so they imitate it will little feasts
They want the Book of Blessings - so they have a Book of Shadows
They want guardian angels - so they have animal spirit guides
They want the rosary - so they have guided meditations
Etc etc
All of the modern occult movement, beginning with Freemasonry and Theosophy through the Golden Dawn and Thelema down to Wicca seems to me the attempt of Protestants to find these lost elements of faith - without returning to the One True Church. So they reach for any old stupid thing instead - from ripping off Buddhism to Satanism - in order to the avoid the truth. However, if they keep searching, I believe they will find it.
Scott Cunningham’s book Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner is probably the most accessible and popular book on the subject. For one thing, it has a great focus - most Wiccans are people leaving their existing “faith community” in search of something “more.” Hence, they are solitary - at least at first. It is also very easy to read.
What are they searching for? Well, as Mr. Cunningham explains, Wiccans are into chanting, meditation, concentration, visualization, “ritual drama” and other stuff to increase their spiritual awareness. In his version of Wicca, the rituals involve candles, bells, wine and “cakes.”
Basically, they are looking for all the stuff no longer offered by most Protestant denominations - a priesthood, litanies, stations of the cross, rosary, “smells and bells”, the Mass, blessings, sacramentals, guardian angels, a sense of mystery - the good stuff that we Catholics take for granted. They are starving for this stuff.
Unfortunately, many people are programmed to look anywhere BUT to the Catholic Church for the truth, so Wiccans go in for all sorts of nonsense. Cunningham’s Thirteen Goals of a Witch are even a sort of silly parody of the Ten Commandments, in reverse - number one is “know yourself” (I guess Pythagoras was a witch) and number thirteen is “honor the goddess and god” (not suprisingly, this one often gets ditched - in many versions the “god” gets tossed).
But, essentially, the Church is what I feel they are really looking for:
They want priests - so they declare themselves priests
They want the eucharist - so they imitate it will little feasts
They want the Book of Blessings - so they have a Book of Shadows
They want guardian angels - so they have animal spirit guides
They want the rosary - so they have guided meditations
Etc etc
All of the modern occult movement, beginning with Freemasonry and Theosophy through the Golden Dawn and Thelema down to Wicca seems to me the attempt of Protestants to find these lost elements of faith - without returning to the One True Church. So they reach for any old stupid thing instead - from ripping off Buddhism to Satanism - in order to the avoid the truth. However, if they keep searching, I believe they will find it.
C
chrisb
Guest
Wow! A really interesting observation and it’s (Wiccanism) all wrapped up in a pseudo-environmentalism. Very cool!
Pax
D
Damascus
Guest
Hey, OP-
Are you there? Is there anything you want to say about all this?
Are you there? Is there anything you want to say about all this?
U
uther
Guest
I’ll second that. I almost became a Druid once upon a time. Of course this Druidry is of very recent vintage.
Instead I became a Catholic.
There was more to it than that, of course, but I mention it because Wiccans and Druids are cousins in the Occult religions.
J
Joe_Monahan
Guest
Just an observation - my compliments to those posting to the thread for the generally civil and charitable expression of their opinions 
on a topic that sometimes tends to evoke dismissiveness and flaming responses.
Joe
on a topic that sometimes tends to evoke dismissiveness and flaming responses.Joe
W
Wammy101
Guest
]
As for wanting of being preists (or preistess’) and then becoming one, its a very personal, DIY choice.
With the ‘us imitating your eucharists with our little feasts’, how would you feel if i turned it around. now, I am not going to, cos I know what I believe and know, so thats really what matters.
Our book of shadows isn’t our bible. I mean, any-one well read would know that. it’s like, maybe you right prayers. If you keep ‘em in a book, doesn’t make it a bible. a book of shadows is just a book of prayers. About the whole: the candles and the bells, and the ‘smells’, well let me put it this way. Whats with the body and blood, the water, the songs and the like used at mass. If your reply was along the lines of: Because these things make church. Well the candles and the ‘bells and smells’ make a Wican ritual.BTW, What is wrong with meditation?
Animals happen to be very good guides.
If you have any more questions, don’ hesitate to ask.
OK. Y’all wanna know why i becam a Wiccan? Cos the prospect of Wicca (not Wiccanism) Just worked more for me. I have trouble believing in Christian faith. I tried, OOOOH believe me i tried. I went to a catholic primary school for my entire Primary Education. Now, before you say it, i am gonna get a million replies saying, ’ But it’s not the truth, It’s a false religion, Just cos something works for you, doesn’t mean it’s true, so on and so forth. but saying that ‘it’s right for me’ is the best way I can explain it. Religion or belief, Wicca, Catholicism, Hindu, Buddhist or any thing, should not be about people telling you that it is right. All of you have obviously found your religion, and it’s right for you! And I am sincerely happy that you are soooooooo happy with it. To me, Wicca is freedom.
As for wanting of being preists (or preistess’) and then becoming one, its a very personal, DIY choice.
With the ‘us imitating your eucharists with our little feasts’, how would you feel if i turned it around. now, I am not going to, cos I know what I believe and know, so thats really what matters.
Our book of shadows isn’t our bible. I mean, any-one well read would know that. it’s like, maybe you right prayers. If you keep ‘em in a book, doesn’t make it a bible. a book of shadows is just a book of prayers. About the whole: the candles and the bells, and the ‘smells’, well let me put it this way. Whats with the body and blood, the water, the songs and the like used at mass. If your reply was along the lines of: Because these things make church. Well the candles and the ‘bells and smells’ make a Wican ritual.BTW, What is wrong with meditation?
Animals happen to be very good guides.
If you have any more questions, don’ hesitate to ask.
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
Well, that is difficult to say. What kind of Wicca are you talking about? There are many “traditions”. For example, there is Alexandrian, Dianic, Eclectic, Gardnerian, Norse, Seax-Wica, Solitary, etc. It is a neopagan group, with probably a little basis on ancient beliefs but mostly a modern creation. In general, I think Gardnerian is the most common form and I also think that it was the first tradition. It was created by Gerald Gardner in the 1940s, though he claims he joined a pre-existing Wicca group. I don’t know for sure about that. He is the source, I think, of the belief that Wicca started in prehistory. The history and origins of Wicca seem to be disputed, but it is probably not some very old religion. And there doesn’t appear to be a unified system of theology. For example, Wicca can be monotheistic because some individual Wiccans believe in the All or the One, a Supreme God. Others are polytheistic, atheistic, duotheistic, etc. No uniform system of morality beyond the “do no harm.” Use of magick and rituals varies. There are some basic elements of course. Anyways, I’d say Wicca is a new creation, almost a fad from the socially turbulent years of the later half of the 20th century. It might evolve into a more mainstream religion, but I think that will require a stronger central administration, establishment of Wiccan centers of learning and a more uniform system of theology, practice, and morality.
D
Damascus
Guest
What are you doing for Halloween?
I seriously dont know how a Wiccan or if a Wiccan does anything special on that day and always wondered.
W
Wammy101
Guest
It’s a celebration called Samhian. Theres a ritual for it. i COULD send it to you, but I doubt you would be interested.What are you doing for Halloween?
I seriously dont know how a Wiccan or if a Wiccan does anything special on that day and always wondered.
D
Damascus
Guest
I dont want a link or something. I just thought you could explain what you are going to do, what goes on.
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
I’d be interested in seeing it.
W
Wammy101
Guest
kk:
you will need:
wand
cauldron
black candle
plate of bread of salt
apple
oak leaves
appropriate herbs [e.g sage and allspice]
usual tools: chalice, salt, canddles, rose petals
method
cast you cirlcle
hold wand in your power hand
tap cauldron 5 times and say
I ask you for blessing, Dark Mother and her aged Consort
As the veil between 2 worlds thins
I greet my ancestors and loved ones who have gone before me
may only those who wish me well enter this circle
Touch with the wand the plate of bread and salt, and the herbs and the apple. say:*
welcome all ancestors, to share this feast with me the bread, the salt, the appleare her prepared as a suitable feast thus representing the fruits of the Earth
Acknowledging the presence of the Gods and Goddesses, we remember that death is but a moment of the ever turning wheel of life *
take some of the bread and dip it in the salt and herbs and eat it.leave left overs outside as an offering to spirits.
light the black candle in the cauldron and say:
We greet all those gone before us, free of the Earths ties.
spend afew moments thinking of your loved ones, then say:*
i thank you for your presence here tonight.*
cut the apple across its width to reveal the pattern of its seeds and say:*
This apple represents the thre aspects of maid, mother, crone, birth, life, death. there is no fear, for tonight we understand the cycle and acknowledge it in its fullness.*
E at some of the apple and say:
we love, we honour we bless.
so be it.
This is EXACTLY by the book. hope it educates you.
Cya,
Wammy
now share the remainder of the apple by putting out side for the birds and animals.
close your circle in your own way.
D
deb1
Guest
Thank you. That was interesting.
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
Interesting, indeed. How long would you say the ritual takes? Can it be amended for a coven? Or is there a different ritual for multiple persons?
S
Steadfast
Guest
Unless you use a cushion, it can be very uncomfortable to sit on.
W
Wammy101
Guest
Done quickly , it takes about 10 minutes, but there is meditating and room for innovation, so all up, about 20 minutes.
A Coven would say the words together, and there would be a candle for every person.
N
nkelly
Guest
Hello Wammy,
I have no doubt in my mind that Wicca and other pagan religions are false. I believe it’s yet another one of the many lures of Satan
designed to draw “sheep” away from the Lord’s flock. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and Wicca subverts this.
For example, Wiccans generally believe in re-incarnation. This concept in totally contrary to Christian belief because it would make Jesus’ passion and death useless. re-incarnation implies that one can save oneself and that we don’t need a saviour. It certainly appears to be an attractive get-out-of jail card but it’s a lie!
No offence take I hope
God bless,
Noel.
W
Wammy101
Guest
I do take offense to the whole ’ Wicca is a false religion’ thing you got going on. Did I ever tell you that Catholicism was false? Hmmm? Now, I no that Every one Here is proud of there religion. I absolutely love that people are so happy. it makes the world seem less harsh! Satan ain’t got a darn thing to do with Wicca. That is a whole different kettle of fish my friend. I do believe in Reincarnation, but I did even BEFORE I became a Wiccan. I just have to many weird characteristics not to have been some one else in my life time. Wicca was not designed to ‘draw’ anything away from anything. our reed which we live by is ’ Do what Ye will, And harm None’. I stick to that reed lick glue to paper. Hope you understand.
Cya, your Wiccan Amico,
Wammy
P
Paganus
Guest
“As for wanting of being preists (or preistess’) and then becoming one, its a very personal, DIY choice.
With the ‘us imitating your eucharists with our little feasts’, how would you feel if i turned it around. now, I am not going to, cos I know what I believe and know, so thats really what matters.”
DIY sums it up nicely. It is a Do It Yourself activity. Which is why that, since Starhawk was Jewish, you will find her trying to pull in a Jewish perspective into her version of Wicca. Since more were Christian, they will bring elements of Christian practice into their Wicca. Whatever your beliefs were before you got into Wicca will be reflected in what you do with Wicca.
Feel free to express yourself. However I sincerely doubt that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass derived from some full moon after-ritual snack ceremony. I find it much more plausible that the few commonalities Wiccans share are modern incarnations of the more byzantine and overtly Satanic writings of Aleister Crowley, watered down with a strong dose of swords and sorcery. (Ever wonder why they are the most popular religious group at at the science fiction & fantasy conventions?) If you ever peruse his Magick in Theory and Practice, you will find all of the equipment and the basic ideas of Wicca spelled out in the first dozen pages. Remove the references to scourges, Satanism (except for a very sanitized version of his black mass) and all his sexual inneundo, add a healthy dose of hippy (reincarnation, nudism, polyamory) and dress it up like Gandalf and voila! - you have Wicca. Very ancient stuff.
I don’t mean to belittle you - I’ve known many Wiccans and some of them were well after retirement age. I know that it meets a real need and provides an escape from a modern world that can be very unsatisfactory. I just feel that a sincere seeker of the truth deserves more than a cheap knockoff.
“Our book of shadows isn’t our bible. I mean, any-one well read would know that. it’s like, maybe you right prayers. If you keep 'em in a book, doesn’t make it a bible. a book of shadows is just a book of prayers”.
Actually, that’s what I said. I compared the Book of Shadows (which properly speaking, must be handwritten - the medieval fantasy types really miss our monks!) with our Book of Blessings, which is a publication of really neat blessings and prayers (both everyday and special occasions) put out by a very important circle of wise men in pointy hats.
“About the whole: the candles and the bells, and the ‘smells’, well let me put it this way. Whats with the body and blood, the water, the songs and the like used at mass. If your reply was along the lines of: Because these things make church. Well the candles and the ‘bells and smells’ make a Wican ritual.”
Yes, that’s what I said. However, most of the Wiccans I’ve met grew up missing out on all the good stuff - no blessings, no sacramentals, no liturgy, no history, no mystery. No staying up past midnight engaging in spiritual activities. Very sad.
“BTW, What is wrong with meditation?”
Meditation is great - we’ve got it. But a hokey past life regression is so unsatisfactory compared to an hour of Eucharistic adoration, or a stations of the cross, or a really good rosary. People need meditation. They need prayer. And if you don’t experience that in your faith, you are going to want it - you are going to look for it. Even if it means swallowing a bunch of malarkey to get it.
People who get involved with Wicca want something more than to be just a bystander sitting ignored in some church somewhere. They want a genuine mystical experience. They want personal contact with the divine. They just don’t know where to find it.
With the ‘us imitating your eucharists with our little feasts’, how would you feel if i turned it around. now, I am not going to, cos I know what I believe and know, so thats really what matters.”
DIY sums it up nicely. It is a Do It Yourself activity. Which is why that, since Starhawk was Jewish, you will find her trying to pull in a Jewish perspective into her version of Wicca. Since more were Christian, they will bring elements of Christian practice into their Wicca. Whatever your beliefs were before you got into Wicca will be reflected in what you do with Wicca.
Feel free to express yourself. However I sincerely doubt that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass derived from some full moon after-ritual snack ceremony. I find it much more plausible that the few commonalities Wiccans share are modern incarnations of the more byzantine and overtly Satanic writings of Aleister Crowley, watered down with a strong dose of swords and sorcery. (Ever wonder why they are the most popular religious group at at the science fiction & fantasy conventions?) If you ever peruse his Magick in Theory and Practice, you will find all of the equipment and the basic ideas of Wicca spelled out in the first dozen pages. Remove the references to scourges, Satanism (except for a very sanitized version of his black mass) and all his sexual inneundo, add a healthy dose of hippy (reincarnation, nudism, polyamory) and dress it up like Gandalf and voila! - you have Wicca. Very ancient stuff.
I don’t mean to belittle you - I’ve known many Wiccans and some of them were well after retirement age. I know that it meets a real need and provides an escape from a modern world that can be very unsatisfactory. I just feel that a sincere seeker of the truth deserves more than a cheap knockoff.
“Our book of shadows isn’t our bible. I mean, any-one well read would know that. it’s like, maybe you right prayers. If you keep 'em in a book, doesn’t make it a bible. a book of shadows is just a book of prayers”.
Actually, that’s what I said. I compared the Book of Shadows (which properly speaking, must be handwritten - the medieval fantasy types really miss our monks!) with our Book of Blessings, which is a publication of really neat blessings and prayers (both everyday and special occasions) put out by a very important circle of wise men in pointy hats.
“About the whole: the candles and the bells, and the ‘smells’, well let me put it this way. Whats with the body and blood, the water, the songs and the like used at mass. If your reply was along the lines of: Because these things make church. Well the candles and the ‘bells and smells’ make a Wican ritual.”
Yes, that’s what I said. However, most of the Wiccans I’ve met grew up missing out on all the good stuff - no blessings, no sacramentals, no liturgy, no history, no mystery. No staying up past midnight engaging in spiritual activities. Very sad.
“BTW, What is wrong with meditation?”
Meditation is great - we’ve got it. But a hokey past life regression is so unsatisfactory compared to an hour of Eucharistic adoration, or a stations of the cross, or a really good rosary. People need meditation. They need prayer. And if you don’t experience that in your faith, you are going to want it - you are going to look for it. Even if it means swallowing a bunch of malarkey to get it.
People who get involved with Wicca want something more than to be just a bystander sitting ignored in some church somewhere. They want a genuine mystical experience. They want personal contact with the divine. They just don’t know where to find it.
- Status