What do you think scripture says about Mary?

[Church_Militant]

Solo Cristo said:

Where do you get that she had the Holy Spirit in her? I would hope Elizabeth puts Mary ahead of herself; ithat not what Christ calls us to do for our brothers? Y’know like we are all supposed to do. Mary was ahead of Elizabeth because she had the Savior in her womb. This means Mary was righteous also; Mary was saved. Mary calls Christ her savior. If she never sinned she would not need a Savior.

That passage in the Bible plainly SAYS SO.

Look dude, If you fall in quicksand and I pull you out I’ve just saved you right?

But if I catch you before you fall in and keep you from ever falling into the quicksand, then you’d have to say that I saved you more perfectly wouldn’t you?

Well…it’s the very same with the Blessed Virgin. Her salvation was more perfect than ours because God appled it at her conception because she had to be pure to be the Ark of the New Covenant. How can anyone accept the thought of the holy Son of God being conceived in the womb of a woman stained with sin? Common God-given sense just makes that seem wrong.

I guess, (now that I think about it), the annunciation was Mary’s first temptation because had she said “no” she would’ve refused to do God’s will, which equals sin, doesn’t it? It’s entirely possible that we have a record of her only temptation and her victory over it. After all, it does say that she was scared.http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage30/11.gif

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Solo Christo:

Again she is not His mother. Do not capitalize mother when you say it. Do not give Mary a divine title. I never said you worship her; all I said and I will say it again is: If you see Mary as anything more then a servant of God you idolize her and have committed a sin. Mary was a humble servant of God. How God puts Mary is below the apostles, because she never wrote an inspired book or letter. There is a bigger chance of Paul or Matthew or any other NT writer to have been taken away in a chariot then Mary.

My question now is how many times does the phrase “Blessed Virgin Mother”, “Our Blessed Mother”, or “Blessed Virgin” come up in Scripture? (referring to anyone besides the earthly mother of Christ) In capital form I mean. I frankly do not remember a single instant where she is said to be the “Blessed Virgin Mother” of all man.

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life:whacky: What do you mean she is not His Mother?Is Jesus not God or have you thrown the Trinity out?Either Jesus is God or He is not.Which is it?

 

[Church_Militant]

Solo Christo:

Again she is not His mother. Do not capitalize mother when you say it. Do not give Mary a divine title. I never said you worship her; all I said and I will say it again is: If you see Mary as anything more then a servant of God you idolize her and have committed a sin. Mary was a humble servant of God. How God puts Mary is below the apostles, because she never wrote an inspired book or letter. There is a bigger chance of Paul or Matthew or any other NT writer to have been taken away in a chariot then Mary.

My question now is how many times does the phrase “Blessed Virgin Mother”, “Our Blessed Mother”, or “Blessed Virgin” come up in Scripture? (referring to anyone besides the earthly mother of Christ) In capital form I mean. I frankly do not remember a single instant where she is said to be the “Blessed Virgin Mother” of all man.

Solo…this is bunk! (no offense…)
Mary IS the Mother of God…even the 3 “pillars of the reformation” believed that, as does most all of the most orthodox Christians.

Are you nuts?! Catholics, (in spite of your poor understanding) have never and will never give the Blessed Virgin a divine title!

You have no clue what you are talking about here on this topic, I urge you to get out your Strong’s and look up the Hebrew word “Giberah” and find out what it means and what that was all about.

uh… dude, only 8 guys wrote the NT and BTW only half of the apostles wrote anything…by your statement you just disqualified the other 6 apostles because they didn’t write anything and that my friend is ludicrous. (Take a deep breath willya…and relax). Whether Mary wrote anything is irrelevent to this whole discussion, since that was not a criteria for her position of that of the apostles either.

WHO CARES how Mary exited this world! There are early church wrotings that say that the apostles were there at the death of Mary and that Jesus appeared and took her with Him. They are not inspired writings but hey, at least someone said something about her. What difference does that make. God assuimed several people into heaven and Acts says that Philip was “snatched” by the Holy Spirit… We need to stop tryin’ to stuff the Almighty into a little box of our understanding and remember the passage that says that all things are possible with God.

As for Mary being our mother too…whether you understand it or like it we believe that when Jesus gave Mary to St. John as his mother, she was also given to all of us as mother of the church.
More importantly, if you’ll look at the 17th verse of the 12th chapter of the book of Revelation, you’ll see this said of Mary’s children (the church) “And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” That’s pretty clearly scriptural in my book.
Also, Mary prophesied when she said “All generations will call me blessed”. All we do is continue to fulfill that prophesy. Do you?
It may be complex, but it’s all scriptural and we Catholics believe it…and have for over 2,000 years. Even the very first Prot leaders believed it…so…why don’t you?
Pax vobiscum.

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

Christ is not alone!

“Of this gospel I have become a servant according to the gift of God’s grace that was given to me by the working of his power. Although I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given to me to bring to the Gentiles the news of the boundless riches of Christ, and to make everyone see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; so that through the church the wisdom of God in its rich variety might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose that he has carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord” Eph 3:7-11

Who else in scripture are all generations to called blessed? What great things has the Mighty One done for Mary for her to be called blessed? Lk 1:48-49

To become “a mere instrument”, nothing more?

Was it during the Council of Ephesus around the year 432 that Mary was given the “official title” Mother of God? That during this council the citizens of Ephesus paraded through the streets shouting “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners?” Did they just make this up then? Or, was this a tradition passed down from the beginning of the Church?

“stand firm and hold fast to the traditions you have been taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.” 2Thes 2:15

So you wish to issue to us commands and edicts and accuse us of heresy?

“for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God” Rev 12:10

How many more bites from the tree of knowledge of good and evil will it take for this rebellion to become complete?

You claim that Mary is dead, but is not our God the God of the living?

On the third day after Jesus was baptized his blessed mother asked him to perform his first miracle. Jesus responded by calling her woman. Do you know why? “what concern is that to you and to me?” Jn 2:4

What did Jesus then do? He listened to his mother and she told the servants to “do whatever he tells you.”

Jesus’s first miracle comes through blessed Mary’s intervention.

 

[Solo_Christo]

Clear some stuff up:

Where do you get that she had the Holy Spirit in her?

That was a type-o, I meant to say Mary and it was irrelevant to the point I was making. My deepest apologies.

Look dude, If you fall in quicksand and I pull you out I’ve just saved you right?
But if I catch you before you fall in and keep you from ever falling into the quicksand, then you’d have to say that I saved you more perfectly wouldn’t you?
Well…it’s the very same with the Blessed Virgin. Her salvation was more perfect than ours because God appled it at her conception because she had to be pure to be the Ark of the New Covenant.

So Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit is what you are implying? Because that is the only way she could be free of original sin; which then you would have to claim Mary to be divine. The only man (/God) ever conceived by the Holy Spirit is Christ. No where in Text does it say Mary was either conceived by the Holy Spirit or even that, “God appled it at her conception because she had to be pure to be the Ark of the New Covenant.” She was pure because she had faith and was created Christ’s righteousness as all men and women were before Christ’s sacrifice.

If Mary needed to be saved like she said she was then she needed Christ’s righteousness imputed on her. That only happens through faith. So you have to claim she had faith in Christ’s future sacrifice at the second of here conception; in order for her to have never sinned. Even as the Bible tells us we are “blameless” when we have Christ’s credited righteousness; the Bible still warns us to sanctify ourselves. Mary was “blameless” in the sense that she had Christ’s imputed righteousness but she did try to sanctify herself all her life; when we do but we all still fall and sin.

How can anyone accept the thought of the holy Son of God being conceived in the womb of a woman stained with sin? Common God-given sense just makes that seem wrong.

How can anyone accept the thought of the Holy Spirit being in a man when he sins? He is in all believers; that’s why Mary had faith. She needed faith so she would be credited Christ’s righteousness so that she could bear Christ. The same goes with us; we need Christ’s righteousness so that the Holy Spirit can dwell in us.

What do you mean she is not His Mother?

I mean Christ existed before Mary. She was only a tool to bring Christ into the world being His mother when He was only in this world.

I guess, (now that I think about it), the annunciation was Mary’s first temptation

Where do you get that? Why would you ever think that was her only temptation and her first temptation? The devil always lurks and tries to make men stumble.

It’s entirely possible that we have a record of her only temptation and her victory over it. After all, it does say that she was scared

It’s about as possible as Peter only sinning three times (denying Christ), because as far as we know that’s the only times he ever sinned. You assume she was only tempted once because it’s only written about once. I love the logic. I can see now how you come up with her never sinning even once now.

 

[Solo_Christo]

Mary IS the Mother of God

God always existed and so did Christ; and if you mean she was the mother of Christ during His presents on earth then yes she was the mother of God. Now Christ is in Heaven in His rightful place without any mother; like He was for eternity past before Mary.

have never and will never give the Blessed Virgin a divine title!

She is not a virgin or I should say is not a virgin anymore. She had other kids, unless you claim those where conceived by the Holy Spirit and are part God. So she is not a “Blessed Virgin” anymore, so please do not use that title again.

by your statement you just disqualified the other 6 apostles because they didn’t write anything and that my friend is ludicrous.

I do not “disqualify” anyone. Christ said He would inspire the apostles to write “Scripture” and if some didn’t write then it was not in God’s plan to do so.

WHO CARES how Mary exited this world!

To Lisa it is an issue that saddens her.

There are early church wrotings that say that the apostles were there at the death of Mary and that Jesus appeared and took her with Him. They are not inspired writings but hey

If they are not inspired they are nothing but words of man not words of God. Uninspired writings are not guaranteed to be historically accurate. They are not Scripture so do not hold credibility like Scripture does. Invalid point.

What difference does that make. God assuimed several people into heaven and Acts says that Philip was “snatched” by the Holy Spirit…

The difference is that if it is not inspired Scripture that supports it; I will not believe it. No matter if men were still being “snatched” by the Holy Spirit; if it doesn’t say Mary was “snatched” then in no way am I going to assume it.

We need to stop tryin’ to stuff the Almighty into a little box of our understanding and remember the passage that says that all things are possible with God.

Yes, and God is a God of purpose. If there was no purpose for Him to “snatch” Mary then He didn’t. And if He did then I am sure He would have an inspired writer document it thoroughly. I mean God would be “snatching” the mother of Christ; pretty important stuff I think it would be recorded.

More importantly, if you’ll look at the 17th verse of the 12th chapter of the book of Revelation, you’ll see this said of Mary’s children (the church)

Big misunderstanding; Mary is dead she will rise just like it is said every other believer will rise from the dead. If you would understand that the seed is the seed of Eve basically mankind and the children are the children of Christ which is the Church. Mary did not establish the Church but Christ did.

 

[Solo_Christo]

That’s pretty clearly scriptural in my book.

It takes more then a title from Gabriel and a blessing from Elizabeth to convince me that Mary had a special birth unlike any in history and that she could somehow never commit any sin like all men do.

Also, Mary prophesied when she said “All generations will call me blessed”. All we do is continue to fulfill that prophesy. Do you?

She was blessed because she carried the Savior in her womb; when she fulfilled her God given tasked like a good servant girl she was dropped out of the picture. That is because the center on the NT is Christ alone! Mary is so minute in the NT; she fulfils her role and vanishes.

The point is if people even look up to her as an example it is idolatry. If women want a role model it is Christ; He alone was perfect look up to Him.

It may be complex, but it’s all scriptural and we Catholics believe it…and have for over 2,000 years.

That’s really weird because I am studying the early fathers (before 6th century) and I never came across any of this. I still fail to come across the Scripture you say vividly shows your perspective on Mary. All the Scripture I see just shows Mary as a young servant of God who did her task and vanished from the Scriptures because that was her only calling.

Who else in scripture are all generations to called blessed? What great things has the Mighty One done for Mary for her to be called blessed?

Now let us look at your claim again. How were Abrahams descendents called? Or Jacobs? Here I will call Mary blessed: Blessed Mary you gave birth to the Messiah! That’s what was meant by her being called blessed. If anyone claims any more or says any more it is idolatry.

To become “a mere instrument”, nothing more?

That’s all God required of her. God’s purpose was fulfilled and Mary was out of the picture. Do you see her as more then a woman? Do you idolize her?

Was it during the Council of Ephesus around the year 432 that Mary was given the “official title” Mother of God? That during this council the citizens of Ephesus paraded through the streets shouting “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners?” Did they just make this up then? Or, was this a tradition passed down from the beginning of the Church?

So your argument is: They idolized her why shouldn’t we? Your argument is: let’s sin! How is Mary supposed to “pray for us sinners” when she is dead? Do you realize the consequences of what you just said?

“stand firm and hold fast to the traditions you have been taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.” 2Thes 2:15

Amen! In other words: Hold on to your tradition, taught by creeds and Scripture and if the word of mouth contradicts the Scriptures let the men who did it be plagued (Rev).

 

[Solo_Christo]

So you wish to issue to us commands and edicts and accuse us of heresy?

Like someone claimed before, “Mary and Christ are a team that crushed Satan.” That my friend is heresy and putting Christ on the cross in vain. Let it never be.

You claim that Mary is dead, but is not our God the God of the living?

If you read that in context you would understand. When it says the penalty for sin is death it means separation from God for eternity. When is says the reward for faith is life it means in the presents of God for eternity. So Mary is physically dead, but spiritually alive. Understanding Biblical terms is key here.

Jesus’s first miracle comes through blessed Mary’s intervention.

And that has any relevance how? Did Mary perform the miracle? So does she get an glory now that she told Jesus to do it? Soli Deo Gloria!

Even the very first Prot leaders believed it…so…why don’t you?

I do not believe it because Scripture does not support it. The only Scripture anyone one can come up with is her greeting from Gabriel and her blessing from Elizabeth. Which are both nice, but not sufficient evidence for the really unique claims you have for Mary. She is not talked about in Gen 3:15 or in Rev 12:17; it is the seed of Eve or mankind that is the subject.

For Mary to be sinless you have to claim one of the three: She was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was part God, or she was born in some unique form different from anyone else in history where she was not a slave to her flesh and was not dead in sin, or that she had faith as a mille-second old fetus and had Christ’s righteousness imputed on her and somehow mysteriously never sinned after her birth. All three very unlikely I rather stick to the evidence that supports her being a regular woman used as an instrument of God to fulfill a purpose.

Yes, finally done.

Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Solo Christo:

It takes more then a title from Gabriel and a blessing from Elizabeth to convince me that Mary had a special birth unlike any in history and that she could somehow never commit any sin like all men do.

She was blessed because she carried the Savior in her womb; when she fulfilled her God given tasked like a good servant girl she was dropped out of the picture. That is because the center on the NT is Christ alone! Mary is so minute in the NT; she fulfils her role and vanishes.

The point is if people even look up to her as an example it is idolatry. If women want a role model it is Christ; He alone was perfect look up to Him.

That’s really weird because I am studying the early fathers (before 6th century) and I never came across any of this. I still fail to come across the Scripture you say vividly shows your perspective on Mary. All the Scripture I see just shows Mary as a young servant of God who did her task and vanished from the Scriptures because that was her only calling.

Now let us look at your claim again. How were Abrahams descendents called? Or Jacobs? Here I will call Mary blessed: Blessed Mary you gave birth to the Messiah! That’s what was meant by her being called blessed. If anyone claims any more or says any more it is idolatry.

That’s all God required of her. God’s purpose was fulfilled and Mary was out of the picture. Do you see her as more then a woman? Do you idolize her?

So your argument is: They idolized her why shouldn’t we? Your argument is: let’s sin! How is Mary supposed to “pray for us sinners” when she is dead? Do you realize the consequences of what you just said?

Amen! In other words: Hold on to your tradition, taught by creeds and Scripture and if the word of mouth contradicts the Scriptures let the men who did it be plagued (Rev).

If Mary is dead then you deny the resurrection.Mary did not cease being Jesus’ Mother at the ascention.Mary did not exist before God no one said that.God doesn’t treat His Mother like apparently you might,it would be contradicting Love.Your outlook on Gods attitude towards the ONE HE chose is indeed sad:crying:

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Nobody puts the cross and Jesus sacrifice in vain.Elizabeth said Mother of my Lord,what part of that do you not understand?Next time you ask someone to pray for you according to your own standards you are guilty of idioltry:tsktsk: Jesus who is perfect you are saying broke his own commandment.Horrible,and a shame it is no wonder alot of men treat women so shamefully.The one Creature that carried God Himself raised Him and Loved Him and STOOD at the foot of the cross is deemed insignificant.You explain it to OUR LORD and I will pray for you.GOD BLESS

 

[Solo_Christo]

Your outlook on a mere woman is sad. You claim you do not idolize her yet you make her seems more then a mere woman. You give her titles and try to incorporate her in the atonement (not you directly but some have). If that is not idolatry then I do not know what is.

If Mary is dead then you deny the resurrection.

I do not deny the resurrection. I actually said she would resurrect along with every other dead believer. I will repeat myself: She is dead physically not spiritually. She is also no longer the mother of Christ, because Christ no longer needs a mother. He did not need one eternity past and He will not need one eternity future. He only needed one on earth. She fulfilled her task (giving birth to Christ) and He fulfilled His (saving mankind). There relationship is through faith now not blood.

 

[Solo_Christo]

No Lisa you will explain to the Lord how you claim not to idolize her but make her presents at the cross some significant event. Was she paying the debt to God? Was she like Christ sinless and perfect? No, Christ did it all. Do not take His glory and give it to a woman who did nothing but stand in confusion next to Him.

If you ask a dead woman to make a prayer for you I would believe that to be wrong. If a person is dead how do they pray for you? Can’t you do it yourself or ask someone who is alive? How is a dead person supposed to here your request for a prayer anyway? Since when does anyone but God here prayers?

Lisa you are just upset because I am telling you a truth that you have been told to be a lie all your life. I am sorry for causing you frustration, but it’s all in good motive.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Solo Christo:

Your outlook on a mere woman is sad. You claim you do not idolize her yet you make her seems more then a mere woman. You give her titles and try to incorporate her in the atonement (not you directly but some have). If that is not idolatry then I do not know what is.

I do not deny the resurrection. I actually said she would resurrect along with every other dead believer. I will repeat myself: She is dead physically not spiritually. She is also no longer the mother of Christ, because Christ no longer needs a mother. He did not need one eternity past and He will not need one eternity future. He only needed one on earth. She fulfilled her task (giving birth to Christ) and He fulfilled His (saving mankind). There relationship is through faith now not blood.

The other poster was acknowledging her yes!Her cooperation in bringing the Savior into the world.Saints were talking to Jesus during the transfiguration,that was not the ressurection of the Judgement.DID HE RAISE THEM AND PUT THEM BACK TO DEATH?WHY were the gates of Heaven opened after the crucifxion if they had to wait for the final judgement?Your argument makes no sense at all and does not square with scripture.God Bless and I will pray for you
PS Christians are the part of the body of Christ,they do not cease to be at physical death if they are truly dead than either their not really Christians or Our Lord never rose,I believe in the ressurection and I believe in scripture all of scripture not just what sounds good to my own viewpoint.God Bless

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Solo Christo:

No Lisa you will explain to the Lord how you claim not to idolize her but make her presents at the cross some significant event. Was she paying the debt to God? Was she like Christ sinless and perfect? No, Christ did it all. Do not take His glory and give it to a woman who did nothing but stand in confusion next to Him.

If you ask a dead woman to make a prayer for you I would believe that to be wrong. If a person is dead how do they pray for you? Can’t you do it yourself or ask someone who is alive? How is a dead person supposed to here your request for a prayer anyway? Since when does anyone but God here prayers?

Lisa you are just upset because I am telling you a truth that you have been told to be a lie all your life. I am sorry for causing you frustration, but it’s all in good motive.

I used to be protestant God brought me to His Church I will pray that God sends His Holy Spirit to you that you see where Truth is and who TRUTH is.God Bless

 

[morey]

Solo Christo:

If you ask a dead woman to make a prayer for you I would believe that to be wrong. If a person is dead how do they pray for you? CanÍt you do it yourself or ask someone who is alive? How is a dead person supposed to here your request for a prayer anyway? Since when does anyone but God here prayers?

Lisa you are just upset because I am telling you a truth that you have been told to be a lie all your life. I am sorry for causing you frustration, but itÍs all in good motive.

Ha! We have someone who is playing God here. Solo Christo has decided that Mary is dead. Jesus Himself has no word to say. If Jesus wanted to ressurect Mary bodily 2000 years ago, He simply would NOT be able to do so. Why ? Because Solo Christo said so !!!

You know what ? Mary has something that Christ loves. You know what it is ? It’s called humility.

 

[Solo_Christo]

I see that no Scripture or even common sense will make any of you believe otherwise. You have been taught that Mary was sinless from infancy and that is what you are going to believe. It sad how a persons emotions overrule Scripture and common laws of life. Like death; death is something every man suffered but the few the Bible says didn’t. If you like to make believe things like Mary never died to comfort your emotions let it be. It’s not supported scripturally only Catholics seem to believe it to be logical so they believe it. I am sorry that you see Mary as more then a mere servant of God; in doing so you idolize her whether you say you do openly or deny it. God bless you in your quest to understand that God gets all the glory not some servant. Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[Solo_Christo]

Ha! We have someone who is playing God here. Solo Christo has decided that Mary is dead. Jesus Himself has no word to say.

What did Jesus say about his earthly mother? Did He say she was going to lifted into Heaven in a chariot? Then were do you come up with such ridiculous conclusions! You are trying to comfort your emotions. Do you not understand that people die physically? Do you not understand that concept? Or do believe billions of people throughout history never suffered a physical death? Were do these unbiblical teachings come from?

If Jesus wanted to ressurect Mary bodily 2000 years ago

That is a very big IF in that sentence. IF He resurrected her why is it not written about in inspired Scripture? IF she is resurrected what does that mean anyway? We should somehow worship her now? Is she greater then Christ? Stop saying such ignorant things to try to justify your traditional thinking.

You know what ? Mary has something that Christ loves. You know what it is ? It’s called humility.

What are you talking about? What does that have anything to do with her never suffering death? It is sort of amusing how you try to justify your emotions.

 

[Solo_Christo]

I used to be protestant God brought me to His Church I will pray that God sends His Holy Spirit to you that you see where Truth is and who TRUTH is

You will pray that God sends the Holy Spirit to me?! Are you saying I do not have the Holy Spirit already in me?! Are you accusing me of not being a Christian?! Do not ever judge me like that again. That has to be the proudest post yet.

Who is “His Church”? Are you claiming that the Catholic Church is the only church that is going to be saved? The only one that is actually His Church?

Please do not ever judge me again or any other churches that are not Catholic. That judgment is not backed up by the words of Christ; therefore sin.

 

[Solo_Christo]

Let’s look at some idolatry in the last hundred plus years:

Pope Benedict Xv, in 1918- “Mary suffered with Christ and nearly died with Him when He died, thus she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ.”

Are you kidding me? Mary and Christ were a team to redeem the human race? That is ridiculous; if this were true Christ died in vain.

Pope Pius XI, in 1923- “The virgin of sorrows shared the work of redemption with Jesus Christ.”

Wow, again idolatry. Mary did nothing to redeem the human race, if she did Christ died in vain.

Pope Leo XII, in 1891- “No one can approach Christ except through His mother.”

Since when is there a mediator between Christ and us? Leo did not understand that Mary is dead and can not hear prayers and is not the mediator between us and Christ.

 

[Solo_Christo]

Lisa is it His church you belong to then or Mary’s? I sincerely hope you say His. Christ died alone, redeemed alone, saves alone, and therefore deserves all the glory alone.

Soli Deo Gloria!