What do you think scripture says about Mary?

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Okay my fellow Catholics and Christians,there were some questions posed earlier off topic in another thread that I would like to have addressed here,I gave my two cents so here is your oppurtunity:)

1)How can you say Mary was sinless when scripture says all have sinned?
2)Jesus did not have respect for Mary,how could he ,he called her woman?:rolleyes: (this is not my question it was from another poster)

I will stay with these for starters God Bless and thankyou God for the gift of your precious Mother
 
In all honesty scripture doesn’t say a whole lot directly about Mary.
A lot of what catholics think about Mary is found through Typology
Eve, Ark of the Covenant, Judith, Bathsheba, Rev 11-12 etc it requires some recognition of traditional interpretation of scripture from the fathers. This wasn’t invented and the very earliest fathers such as Justin, Ireneaus found these types for Mary but if you don’t read the fathers you would scratch your head on how catholics got some interpretations from scripture on Mary.
As far as the “all have sinned” instance. Would Jesus be included in that all statement too? OF course not Gen 3:15 and Rv 12 show Mary and Jesus as a team that crushes Satan. Something is differnet about these 2 than the rest of humanity to conclude it would be not having sin and their participation of crushing sin is llogical.
Jesus is born not of sinful Man but a woman their connection is unique in all of human history well unless you think that Virgin birth’s happen all the time then of course “There is something about Mary!”
The woman reference is cultural like Ma’am from what I have heard and read it is common for woman to be included is salutation the social morays back then are different than 21st century america fundies need to remeber that. But it think it goes deeper than any scholar dealing only with culture will tell. It might be saying to Women look at Mary this is what what a woman can do.
She can play the most important human role in salavation this woman is calling me to my ministry. Of course this is way too much credit given to Mary by most Protestants today
 
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Maccabees:
In all honesty scripture doesn’t say a whole lot directly about Mary.
A lot of what catholics think about Mary is found through Typology
Eve, Ark of the Covenant, Judith, Bathsheba, Rev 11-12 etc it requires some recognition of traditional interpretation of scripture from the fathers. This wasn’t invented and the very earliest fathers such as Justin, Ireneaus found these types for Mary but if you don’t read the fathers you would scratch your head on how catholics got some interpretations from scripture on Mary.
As far as the “all have sinned” instance. Would Jesus be included in that all statement too? OF course not Gen 3:15 and Rv 12 show Mary and Jesus as a team that crushes Satan. Something is differnet about these 2 than the rest of humanity to conclude it would be not having sin and their participation of crushing sin is llogical.
Jesus is born not of sinful Man but a woman their connection is unique in all of human history well unless you think that Virgin birth’s happen all the time then of course “There is something about Mary!”
The woman reference is cultural like Ma’am from what I have heard and read it is common for woman to be included is salutation the social morays back then are different than 21st century america fundies need to remeber that. But it think it goes deeper than any scholar dealing only with culture will tell. It might be saying to Women look at Mary this is what what a woman can do.
She can play the most important human role in salavation this woman is calling me to my ministry. Of course this is way too much credit given to Mary by most Protestants today
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Woman would also refer back to genesis and the exchange between God and satan,also in Revelations.The Magnificat and the exchange between Mary and Elizebeth,also the greeting by Gabriel,it seems quite obvious that she is not just another person.God Bless
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Okay my fellow Catholics and Christians,there were some questions posed earlier off topic in another thread that I would like to have addressed here,I gave my two cents so here is your oppurtunity:)

1)How can you say Mary was sinless when scripture says all have sinned?
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First of all I’d say to the person that originally posted these questions: scripture doesn’t speak, it’s not a living, breathing person, so you might want to rephrase that statement because if taken literally you come off like a crazy person saying that a book or collection of books can speak.

Second, it should be common sense to believe that Mary was sinless because God would not allow His Son to come into this world through an unclean vessel. If God loathes sin, then why would He spend 9 months in the womb of a sinful person?

Third, if God told Jeremiah that he was chosen before he was in his mothers womb, then couldn’t God have chosen Mary before her birth as well & kept her free from sin so that His Son could be born through a pure & sinless vessel?
2)Jesus did not have respect for Mary,how could he ,he called her woman?:rolleyes: (this is not my question it was from another poster)
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Well, if Jesus did not have respect for his own mother then he would be guilty of breaking the 4th commandment & he would in fact be a sinner. Remember that Jesus is seen as the second Adam as we are told by St. Paul. Adam called Eve “woman”, Jesus called Mary “woman”.

Jesus performed his first public miracle at the wedding of Cana at his mother’s request.

Jesus saw to it that his mother was to be cared for after his death as he put her in the care of John the Apostle.

Mary was a central figure in the early church & was present on the day of Pentecost.

Mary is depicted as a woman adorned with the sun, moon at her feet & wearing a crown of 12 stars in the book of Revelations… need I say more?
I will stay with these for starters God Bless and thankyou God for the gift of your precious Mother.
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Amen.
 
Lisa4Catholics said:
1)How can you say Mary was sinless when scripture says all have sinned?
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Let’s look at the actual Scripture verse, Romans 3:23:

**For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. **

Taken in the absolute sense, is this really saying **all ** have sinned, that is, have commited actual sin? What about newborn babes? What about the extremely mentally deficient? For that matter, what about Jesus?

It is clear that this is not meant to be an all inclusive statement, but meant only to speak to the state of men generally. It assumes exceptions, and all that Catholics are saying is that Mary was an exception.

Now *how and why * this was accomplished is another story and has been addressed by other posters, but the point is that the verse from Romans does not apply. Get your interlocuter to admit this and you’ve knocked some of the wind out of his or her argument.
 
Hi

An ex-anti-Catholic, Scott Hahn, has written an excellent book to explain Catholic beliefs about Our Blessed Mother: Hail, Holy Queen (ISBN: 0385501684)

Here is a link showing the book:
shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-B0418.html?L+scstore+mwzf3192ff8cb98c+1111109953

Most of your questions are clearly answered in this book. You will see through this book that those who attack Our Blessed Mother don’t read Scripture in context. Not in historical context, not in cultural context. Vocabularies that were used 2000 years ago do not necessarily have the same meaning today.

Thanks
 
Mary was saved by the same sacrifice of Christ that we were. It was simply applied at her conception because of her unique destiny as the mother of God. (Something that the writings of all three “pillars of the reformation” support.) She is the only person in all of history to be greeted with, “Hail full of grace” What do you think the angel Gabriel meant by that?
The Blessed Virgin herself plainly says she is saved by God in the NT when she speaks from the fullness of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1:41-50)

41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.
 
I haven’t read the other posts in this thread, so my answers may duplicate those already given. If so, I apologize for the wasted bandwidth.
1)How can you say Mary was sinless when scripture says all have sinned?
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The first thing we have to understand is what Scripture means (actually, what Paul means) when he says “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” The Church teaches that there are two classes of sin: actual and Original. Actual sins are those sins we personally commit while Original sin refers to the sin of Adam and Eve.

Let’s consider the case of a baby who dies two days after birth. Did that baby ever commit actual sin? No, of course not. Therefore, Paul was not referring to sin that we personally commit. That leaves original sin. Paul tells us that “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned…” (Rom 5:12) It follows, therefore, that since all die all have inherited sin.

Mary, on the other hand, is said to have been “conceived without original sin” and to have been “ever sinless.” How can this be? John Duns Scotus and his teacher, William of Ware, addressed this and explained that because of the role Mary played in salvation history by becoming the mother of Jesus she was the recipient of “anticipatory redemption.” That is, Jesus redeemed her out of the normal course of time. She was also highly favored and, therefore, was blessed with grace that allowed her to live out a sinless life. This is not to be considered unusual – the early Church expected that once we were baptized we would live sinless lives.
2)Jesus did not have respect for Mary,how could he ,he called her woman?:rolleyes: (this is not my question it was from another poster)
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This is a case where we need to know a little more about the society in which this was used. The term “woman” was a normal, polite form of address. Rather than showing a lack of respect, it actually shows great respect.

Deacon Ed
 
Dj Roy Albert:
Second, it should be common sense to believe that Mary was sinless because God would not allow His Son to come into this world through an unclean vessel. If God loathes sin, then why would He spend 9 months in the womb of a sinful person? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Dj, Does the Holy Spirit live and dwell in you?. Are you not the temple of the living God. Are you a sinner Dj? How can Jesus live in you then? :confused: God Bless
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Dear SPOKENWORD:

Are you suggesting that God found favor with Mary because of her sinfulness? (cf Luke 1:30 “Then the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.’”)

Fiat
 
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Fiat:
Dear SPOKENWORD:

Are you suggesting that God found favor with Mary because of her sinfulness? (cf Luke 1:30 “Then the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.’”)

Fiat
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God found favor in Mary because He chose her. She was a vessel that said yes to God… 😉 God Bless
 
Thanks you guys keep them coming:D I love Scott Hahn:) I started this thread for the benefit of certain posters who want to try to demean Catholics and belittle Mary,and attempt to use scripture to do it,so Scott Hahn probably would not be an option for them at this point.That is why I asked all you wonderful apologist to post:thumbsup: I thought maybe these post could open their eyes a little.God Bless
 
Dear SPOKENWORD:

You said:
God found favor in Mary because He chose her. She was a vessel that said yes to God… 😉 God Bless
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Mary does not give her “yes” until AFTER that. (Cf 1:38 “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”)

Go in peace.
Fiat
 
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SPOKENWORD:
God found favor in Mary because He chose her. She was a vessel that said yes to God… 😉 God Bless
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Originally Posted by Fiat
Dear SPOKENWORD:

Are you suggesting that God found favor with Mary because of her sinfulness? (cf Luke 1:30 “Then the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.’”)

Fiat

Both these gentlemen write, “God found favor” with Mary.

These words,“found favor with Mary”, are important.

The King James Version of the Bible (the Protestant Bible) say in Luke 1:v28, does say," And the angel came into her, and said," Hail thou art highly favored"…

In my Douay - Rheims Bible which is a copy of the Vulgate I read in Luke1:v28, And the angel being come in, said to her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: Blessed art thou amoung women".
30. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Lisa4, read this. In verse 28 from the Catholic Bible ( D - R) The angel Gabriel said Mary YOU ARE FULL OF GRACE. If she is “full” then there is no room for anything else. If Mary is FULL the of Grace of God…then, is there room for sin? I think the angel Gabriel is an authoritative source. In verse 30, the angel said Mary has found grace with God. She is full of grace and she has found the grace of God.

Protestants want to believe only if they read it in the Bible. I have been quoting the Bible.

Mary was not “highly favored”, she was “full of Grace”. Men today can be “favored” by the gov’t but not chosen for a job.
God’s grace as given to Mary WAS A GIFT to her.
 
Exporter:

Like you, I prefer the “full of grace” language. However, I used the “found favor” language from the NAB because I figured SPOKENWORD was using a Protestant version of the Bible.

Your brother,
Fiat
 
Peace be with you all,

As I am still in RCIA, I am only just now coming to appreciate our Holy Mother Mary, blessed among women.

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. - St. Luke 1:28 (DRB)

For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. St. Luke 1:48 (KJV)

Something is special with Mary, the trick is to figure out what that something is.

Peace, Love and Blessings,
 
chrisb, The “trick” is to understand what Gabriel said to Mary.
  1. Mary is full of grace.
  2. Grace was given to mary, because God decided to give it to her, not because of Mary’s actions.
  3. “Blessed* art* thou amoung women”. God told Gabriel to tell Mary she was Blessed. So it was all God’s decision, eh?
FIAT, I understand you. Yes some are Protestants and use the King James Version of the Bible. Those men did not want to give Mary the respect that is due her. I undestand you, Sorry I included you. Thanks Brother.
 
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Exporter:
chrisb, The “trick” is to understand what Gabriel said to Mary.
  1. Mary is full of grace.
  2. Grace was given to mary, because God decided to give it to her, not because of Mary’s actions.
  3. “Blessed* art* thou amoung women”. God told Gabriel to tell Mary she was Blessed. So it was all God’s decision, eh?
FIAT, I understand you. Yes some are Protestants and use the King James Version of the Bible. Those men did not want to give Mary the respect that is due her. I undestand you, Sorry I included you. Thanks Brother.
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Peace be with you Exporter,

I notice strong similarities in translations between the DRB and the KJV except for verses which seem to be “proof texts” for Catholic Doctrine. Is it Catholic belief to believe that the KJV translations where deliberately translated in “weaker” language on these verses? If so is there any linguistic analysis to back up such a claim?

Peace, Love and Blessings,
 
this doesnt refute the question about sin but this does go to what Jesus thought of his mother,

John 19:26,27 :"When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. "
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
What do you think scripture says about Mary?
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What’s interesting is that Mary’s last words recorded in scripture are…

John 2:5 - His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”

God Bless…
 
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