What do you think scripture says about Mary?

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SPOKENWORD:
God found favor in Mary because He chose her. She was a vessel that said yes to God… 😉 God Bless
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Gods peace B with U Spoken,

The protestant Amplified Bible says:

Lk 1:30 “And the angel said to her, Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found grace with God.”

So, Gods grace forgives our sins. Gods Grace gives us salvation. So even some of the countless protestant versions of the Bible seem to get accross the true meaning of the verse. Since Blessed Mary had Gods grace, she was without sin.😃

So, is “found favor” just another KJV error?

God bless,
 
When posters say that Jesus was certainly sinless we all agree, but even the Savior took on Himself the guilt of all of our sins. He took on our shame.

Elsewhere others have made comments about the smelly place he was born, contrasting that to the sinfulness into which He was born.

I don’t want to truly go negative here, but there’s something that nobody ever talks about. Even if Mary was born sinless and remained sinless, what does that mean to us? Catholics make this ‘point’ that in itself creates and generates so much conflict with other Christians, I wonder if it’s really worth it? It may be a devout legend and tradition, but it has become regarded as dogma (you have to believe it) which drives this big wedge between us and other believers.

When Jesus said “teach all that I have commanded” I wonder if the Church has gone too far beyond teaching what God has commanded? Why is it essential to salvation to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived? The test that my mind conjures up, is whether the ‘good thief’ on the cross had to believe in Mary’s immaculate conception? No evidence of that. But, our Lord said that he would be that day in Paradise.

And, then, too, there’s the same bunch of questions about Mary’s perpetual virginity. Seriously…who cares? Even if she was perpetually virgin, so are a lot of women AND men!! Mary’s virginity does not seem to be anybody’s business, as far as I can tell. Do these beliefs about Mary embellish or enhance our salvation in any way?

The Church has retired Jan 1 as a celebration of Jesus’ circumcision. Now, that was important in Jewish life. Why has that fallen to the wayside, as long as we’re talking about things below the waist? That ritual of Jewish initiation has been sanitized to the “Presentation of our Lord in the Temple.”
 
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BayCityRickL:
When posters say that Jesus was certainly sinless we all agree, but even the Savior took on Himself the guilt of all of our sins. He took on our shame.

Elsewhere others have made comments about the smelly place he was born, contrasting that to the sinfulness into which He was born.

I don’t want to truly go negative here, but there’s something that nobody ever talks about. Even if Mary was born sinless and remained sinless, what does that mean to us? Catholics make this ‘point’ that in itself creates and generates so much conflict with other Christians, I wonder if it’s really worth it? It may be a devout legend and tradition, but it has become regarded as dogma (you have to believe it) which drives this big wedge between us and other believers.

When Jesus said “teach all that I have commanded” I wonder if the Church has gone too far beyond teaching what God has commanded? Why is it essential to salvation to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived? The test that my mind conjures up, is whether the ‘good thief’ on the cross had to believe in Mary’s immaculate conception? No evidence of that. But, our Lord said that he would be that day in Paradise.

And, then, too, there’s the same bunch of questions about Mary’s perpetual virginity. Seriously…who cares? Even if she was perpetually virgin, so are a lot of women AND men!! Mary’s virginity does not seem to be anybody’s business, as far as I can tell. Do these beliefs about Mary embellish or enhance our salvation in any way?

The Church has retired Jan 1 as a celebration of Jesus’ circumcision. Now, that was important in Jewish life. Why has that fallen to the wayside, as long as we’re talking about things below the waist? That ritual of Jewish initiation has been sanitized to the “Presentation of our Lord in the Temple.”
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We all know Jesus saves us period.You ask what difference does it make about the dogma’s about Mary.Let’s look at that, God choose Her to be His Mother and she said yes.Okay, a protestant would say so what(indifference),she among all other women was chosen,a protestant would say she just happened to be the vessel(indifference to the divine Will of God).Mary said yes,a protestant would say if she said no he would have just picked another jewish virgin(presumption)Mary was created sinnles,a further testimony that all things are possible with God,a correlation between Mary and the ark of the covenant,and a magnification of the exchange between God and the Devil in the garden about The Women and Her Seed.When Mary is put into a protestant context it would seem that she was a throw away vessel who just happened to be the one,which therefore puts God in trivial and not so honorable light.On a side note Mary is the Mother of Jesus,the second person of the Holy Trinity,He is the perfect Son and He loves our Mother Mary more than we could ever do,when we do not honor her we do not honor Him.To all those solascriptura Christians,scripture says all generation shall call me blessed,instead she is being diminished,that is why these things are dogma,it to was a prophecy.Holy Mother Church does not put something as a dogma unless it is necessary to believe.We have the fulness of reveation,why in the world would we give that up to appease those in error.God Bless
 
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BayCityRickL:
When Jesus said “teach all that I have commanded” I wonder if the Church has gone too far beyond teaching what God has commanded? "
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What does the Fourth Commandment say ?

If Jesus, suffering and dying on the cross, honored His mother and took care of her until His last breath (John 19:26), who the heck are you and who the heck am I to say that we don’t need to honor her ?

If you still think that you don’t need to honor her, the day you are facing Our Lord Jesus, make sure you tell Him this:
  • Lord, I love You with all my heart and all my strength, but regarding Your mother Mary, Your earthly father Joseph, your other apostles/disciples, I really don’t care. I love only You.
Do you think Our Lord is going to like that ?

God bless you.
 
“Woman” is a theological concept: a title; and an office. In the Proto-Evangelium, the “pre-Gospel” of Genesis 3:15, God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. Jesus Christ always called His mother “woman” in referencing her role and His: Woman & Seed.
 
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Malachi4U:
Gods peace B with U Spoken,

The protestant Amplified Bible says:

Lk 1:30 “And the angel said to her, Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found grace with God.”

So, Gods grace forgives our sins. Gods Grace gives us salvation. So even some of the countless protestant versions of the Bible seem to get accross the true meaning of the verse. Since Blessed Mary had Gods grace, she was without sin.😃

So, is “found favor” just another KJV error?

God bless,
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Hi Malachi.The term found favor was used by me only because I was repeating what was posted.I believe it was brother Fiat who used the term.If its error,thanks for pointing it out. 👍 God Bless
 
Likewise, I would also point out that I was quoting from the NAB, which the USCCB has approved for us Catholics, and which is the version we read from at Holy Mass

Fiat
 
Whenever we read about, or hear a homily about the Anunciation, it is always emphasized that Mary had a choice…and she said YES.

“Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word.” Lk 1:38a,

The thing is, God kind of “cheated”. He made a woman with no sin, and no sinful nature. How else would such a creature answer?

And those of us in the world, the more we too depart from sin, by discipline and frequent recourse to the Sacrament of Penance, the more we too can conform to God’s will. And His will will be done here on earth, just like in Heaven. And the Kingdom comes even closer.
 
Here’s an excerpt from an essay of mine which deals with Marian issues from a Catholic (convert) perspective. It might help, but I think others have already hit on the main points.

When discussing the Catholic understanding of Mary it is also only natural to mention the Immaculate Conception. This dogma, made official by Pope Pius IX in 1854, declares that Mary was free from the stain of original sin. As The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes it, she was “redeemed from the moment of her conception”. While this mystery may be challenging to grasp at first, it makes greater sense if one reflects upon it. If we acknowledge that God is outside of time, then we can understand the implication of Mary’s predestination as hinted at in verses such as Ephesians 1:3-4. God was precisely aware who was destined to bear His son into the world before even the arrival of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. If we accept God is omniscient and possessed foreknowledge of the details of this miracle, then it only stands to reason that God would shelter this chosen one from the harmful effects of original sin. After all, how can the stain of sin co-exist so intimately (both physically and spiritually) with true good or "life itself, immutable ", as Saint Augustine describes God in his Confessions? Of course, another argument supporting the Immaculate Conception is found in Luke 1:28. How could Mary be “blessed among women”, if she harbored the stain of original sin?

The whole essay (still a sort of rough draft) can be found at the link below, if interested.

home.earthlink.net/~karlerickson/writer/id16.html
 
Each sport has its hall of fame. And each hall of fame honors its brightest. We never hear people critical of this. They never complain that honoring these individuals “leads us away from God”.

God our Father’s generosity could never be outdone, so for all of Mary’s efforts and faithfulness, she is crowned the title “Mother of God”.

Scriptural evidence? Not only is she there at crib & cross, but from pre-womb to post-tomb – Note that our Father requests Mary to play a very explicit, direct, and continuous role in leading us to His Son Jesus, and this is the role she accepts.

Again, I cannot fathom why some need to diminish or convolute this, once you consider the will of our Father in scripture.
 
While Scripture (specifially the Gospels) does not say a whole lot about the Mother of God, what it says is very important.

As for Protestants having a problem with any Marian beilef, I couldn’t care less. They are the ones who reject Apostolic Succession, and by extension, the Church Jesus founded through the Apostles. They are the first cherry-pickers. Sola Scriptura is not in Scripture. Well, the Holy Bible is a Catholic book and nobody can interpret it more accurately than the Catholic Church.

Maria (I prefer the Latin-Spanish version of the name) is the FIRST to be saved by Jesus Christ. She is the first Disciple of Our Lord. Maria desires nothing more than for all to follow her beloved Son. She is a powerful intercessor to Our Lord and the first among the Communion of Saints. God chose Maria for a unique role in the salvation of all people.

Some Protestants believe Maria was not ever-virgin or that she actually had other children after Christ.

Well, really! Do you really think Joseph would want to enter her womb after the Holy Spirit resided there? I certainly would not! Geez, Maria just bore the Savior of the World and then Joseph is gonna be “in the mood”? Nah. Didn’t happen.

I would invite any Protestant who believes that Marianism is the “wedge that separates us” to go visit the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City and convince the Mexican people that the Image on the tilma is just a hoax. I would love to see that.

Marian devotion is strongest in this world in Latin America and Slavic Europe. While some have without doubt overdone Marian devotion through the centuries (and likely through no fault of their own) the proper role for Marian devotion is to lead one to Jesus Christ.
 
Lost&Found:
Each sport has its hall of fame. And each hall of fame honors its brightest. We never hear people critical of this. They never complain that honoring these individuals “leads us away from God”.

God our Father’s generosity could never be outdone, so for all of Mary’s efforts and faithfulness, she is crowned the title “Mother of God”.

Scriptural evidence? Not only is she there at crib & cross, but from pre-womb to post-tomb – Note that our Father requests Mary to play a very explicit, direct, and continuous role in leading us to His Son Jesus, and this is the role she accepts.

Again, I cannot fathom why some need to diminish or convolute this, once you consider the will of our Father in scripture.
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Lost&Found,

I overheard a conversation between two Protestants when one asserted that Catholics have made Mary a goddess because Catholics call Mary the Mother of God.

Do Protestants not understand that Mary gave birth to the one person, Jesus, the second godhead of the Trinity, who has two natures, human and divine, and that there is nothing wrong for Catholics to declare Mary to be the Mother of God and that this does not make her a goddess?

Do you have an answer that’s not too long but to the point, why the title of Mother of God does not make Mary a goddess?

Thank you

Theodora
 
God the Father must just be some guy (on another planet) who had conjugal relations with Mary (just like the Mormons say) because Jesus’ Father said, “This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased,” and since Jesus was obviously a human, His Pappy must be too…NOT!

If Blessed Mary isn’t the “Mother of God,” then by the same specious logic, Abba’s nature must reflexively be merely human as defined by Jesus humanity. Ready to go down that wide Mormon road? Not me…

Marian dogma is always reflexively about the nature of God, hence the fundamental Vatican revulsion about the popularity of Coredemptrix, Mediatrix & Advocate “Final Dogma” as not only from a condemned apparition, but in failing to illuminate Christ’s nature, and " a waste of all that infallibility."

With some Catholics adoring the Holy Eucharist twenty-four hours a day, and some Catholics attending Mass daily, not just Sunday, it would be easy for lukewarm non-Catholics to mistake the veneration of Mary as “adoration.” The adoration given Christ demands that pearls not be flung before swine, holy things not be given to dogs. “They” just don’t see the full extent of Catholic adoration.
 
It makes one wonder.

Rev 11:19 Refers to God’s temple in heaven opening and the ark of the covenant(or testament) is seen within the temple.

Then in Rev 12:1 A great portent(or wonder) appeared in heaven…

The correlation is established between the Ark and the Woman who was “clothed with the sun” before she gave birth to her son.

One must examine the careful construction of the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament to gain insight into God’s preparation of Mary.

Deep scriptural study will reveal that Mary plays a vital role in fullfilling the restoration of God’s divine order of heaven and heavenly worship.

I used to have problems with Mary, I took the Rosary Challenge.

Now I am pledged to defend the Mother of my LORD and my Mother’s honor with my life.:amen:
 
Hi Theodora,

What, Mary, a goddess?? I guess they play around with words enough to change their entire meaning. Maybe if a Catholic is gullible enough to fall for the trick, they will make a good conversion candidate. Or if they can get the Catholic to struggle with the altered wording, they can listen for more words and meanings to twist around. You’d have more luck trying to reason with the telephone post outside. You can go through the entire Hail Mary and explain it but they will take “Mary, Mother of God, pray for us”, and somehow alter it to Mary is a goddess or Mary had a little lamb or whatever nonsense they choose.

Maybe it is they who need to struggle with wording, so just ask them - who is Jesus’ mother?

Whatever happens, no need to worry. Mary somehow always refuses the glory, and always shifts the spotlight onto our Saviour. No wonder she is allowed to be called “Mother of God”.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
If Mary is Gods Mother who is Gods Father? :confused: God Bless
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Mother of God is a title of Mary. This title does NOT mean that she created God. She is a creature of God. If we refuse that title to Mary, then let’s examine the following four statements. You’ll choose which one is true, which one is false for yourself. Please note that statement 3 and 4 are opposite and can’t be both true.
  1. Jesus is God
  2. Mary is Mother of Jesus
  3. Mary is Mother of God
  4. Mary is NOT Mother of God
If statement #3 is true, then there is no contradiction with statements #1 and #2.

If any of you says that statement #4 is true, then you must also accept that either of statement #1 or #2 has to be false. In which case you must also accept one (or both) of the two following inferences:
  • Mary did NOT give birth to Jesus, i.e. the Bible lied to us, i.e the Bible is NOT the inspired words of God.
  • Jesus is NOT God.
I personnally think and believe that statements #1, #2 and #3 are true.
I personnally reject statement #4.

God bless
 
My 5 cents on the issue:

I did not read the whole topic because it was to long so you might have to repeat a lot of what you have already said to me.

Mary was a human being, no were in Scripture does it say she was existent before she was physically born into the world. Since she was born into the world with a natural birth she had original sin. And original sin is still sin, and sufficient enough to condemn a person to hell. Now I am not saying Mary is in hell by no means. I am just saying that she was a sinner just like you and me. She was just like you and me a regular person, and God decided to use her to bring our Savior into the world. That’s it. She was just a “mother of Christ” on earth and Christ did not originate from her, because Christ always existed. We know that from numerous places in Scripture. She was just a regular woman that God chose to us in His divine plan to save His sheep. That’s all. Nothing in Scripture suggests she never sinned before or after the birth of Jesus.

And as far as this:
2)Jesus did not have respect for Mary, how could he ,he called her woman? (this is not my question it was from another poster)
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Being a woman back then was a lot different from today. Your testimony in anything was considered worthless if you were a woman. That’s why it is so significant that the 4 gospel writers wrote that women first discovered the empty tomb. If they made the whole thing up they would have used men as the first witnesses of Christ’s resurrection not women.
 
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YuRa:
My 5 cents on the issue:

I did not read the whole topic because it was to long so you might have to repeat a lot of what you have already said to me.

Mary was a human being, no were in Scripture does it say she was existent before she was physically born into the world. Since she was born into the world with a natural birth she had original sin. And original sin is still sin, and sufficient enough to condemn a person to hell. Now I am not saying Mary is in hell by no means. I am just saying that she was a sinner just like you and me. She was just like you and me a regular person, and God decided to use her to bring our Savior into the world. That’s it. She was just a “mother of Christ” on earth and Christ did not originate from her, because Christ always existed. We know that from numerous places in Scripture. She was just a regular woman that God chose to us in His divine plan to save His sheep. That’s all. Nothing in Scripture suggests she never sinned before or after the birth of Jesus.

And as far as this:

Being a woman back then was a lot different from today. Your testimony in anything was considered worthless if you were a woman. That’s why it is so significant that the 4 gospel writers wrote that women first discovered the empty tomb. If they made the whole thing up they would have used men as the first witnesses of Christ’s resurrection not women.
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You need to read all of the posts.If you do not you chose to not hear anything but your own opinion.God Bless
 
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