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oldcelt
Guest
Precisely.
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oldcelt
Guest
Kind of like faith in the unobservable?
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Mark86
Guest
“The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.” (Psalm 19:1)
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows. And I know that this man–whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows–was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.” (2nd Corinthians 12:2-4)
“The end of my labors has come. All that I have written appears to be as so much straw after the things that have been revealed to me.” --Thomas Aquinas
The heavens appear to exist to demonstrate to us signs of God’s infinitely greater glory and grandeur, and to profoundly humble us.
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows. And I know that this man–whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows–was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.” (2nd Corinthians 12:2-4)
“The end of my labors has come. All that I have written appears to be as so much straw after the things that have been revealed to me.” --Thomas Aquinas
The heavens appear to exist to demonstrate to us signs of God’s infinitely greater glory and grandeur, and to profoundly humble us.
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Hodegetria
Guest
This is fascinating to me as you’re a Deist, according to your self ID. A deist (I googled it) believes there is some creator or highest power that created everything, so you believe based on evidence of nature and reality as perceived, if I’m not mistaken. You’ve truly NEVER seen anything spiritual, paranormal, a miracle or other unexplainable thing in your life?
Sorry this is my brain not on coffee yet… I’ve seen so many things for myself that prove to me there’s another world other than the physical one we can observe, a spiritual world. I had a long spiritual search and I believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, but that’s faith, not proof.
I do believe many of the supernatural things other people have reported seeing. Even if every single of them is lying or simply mistaken, I still have my own experiences… My husband, who’s not even baptized yet (he was brought up Jehovah’s Witness and used to be atheist as they come) began believing in God mainly because he saw a demon in action and it was a sick and perverted thing he saw, which another person experienced and I won’t go further on that… The horrible thing he saw was a blessing, because now he believes. It’s my personal theory that satan would show himself a lot more if not that the end result would only be in people believing in the supernatural; I think he much prefers people believing he (or God) doesn’t exist.
Anyway, no disrespect, you’re obviously here for a good reason and I wanted to pick your brain. Thank you. Ready for intellectual beat down now, LOL.
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Hodegetria
Guest
Thank you, Bahman. I love seeing things summarized.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Hey, Bahman. Take a break for an hour and watch this video. It is the story of how a star showed the place where Jesus was to be born. It is very interesting and involves astronomy.
bing.com/videos/search?q=star+of+bethlehem&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=863621C321F801BD6E19863621C321F801BD6E19
Linus2nd
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Bahman
Guest
Thanks dude. :bounce: I am working on Thomas argument right now. I will see if I can find time. I know the story though. I also would invite you to watch this movie and I hope you can find time for it. The firs few parts are important.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Is this what has been motivating you? A better link is youtube.com/watch?v=s2Gp2nTUbYc
Certainly the video raises questions we all have about the life we live and the world we live in and what motivates it and what the answer is. But to suggest that you can have " love " and get rid of God and religion is ludicrous. And certainly there are evil and selfish people in religious organizations and in all religions. But that is because it is real men and women who run them and we are all flawed. The Saints are the best of us and even they had real human flaws and I can guarantee that the producers of " Zeitgeist " have more than their share of flaws. If it were not for God’s revelation we would know very little about him and almost nothing about " love. " If you want to know what love is you have to live the way God intends for us to live and we can’t know that without his Revelation ( and that really has nothing to do with " Hell Fire and Brimstone " or with " money, " except that it does take money to keep the Church boilers and offices running! ) . And once we know that ( which you will find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and in a good Catholic Bible - for starters ), then it is up to you to begin the program of " love. " It starts with each one of us. And I don’t think George Carlin can show you that or any of the individuals in the movie.
Pax Christi
Linus2nd
You are assuming life is a chance event.
We have no evidence to support that.
Seems to me the entire argument depends upon an unproven (and likely unprovable) assumption.
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Peebo
Guest
How anyone can look up at the night sky and not think “wow…what an awesome God we have” really must be in a dark lonely place.
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Bahman
Guest
We know that by indisputable facts that chance event are very important when we study the antibiotic resistance of microbes.
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Bahman
Guest
You can prove assumption unless the theory which uses the assumption provides you reasonable outcome. All I am saying is that the chance of having a form of life in a huge universe is considerable and it increases with the number of Earth-like planets.
I would not be prepared to hinge my view of God upon unproven assumptions.
There can be little doubt that chance has a role in changes to life.
but I would not be prepared to say it has a role in life coming about without first understanding what exactly brings about life.
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ngill09
Guest
If there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, why do you say it’s a “freak event” that a galaxy would form?
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ngill09
Guest
Not really. A less anthropomorphic place, sure.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
If it had no cause it is implausable. Wouldn’t it be more plausable that nothing at all should exist?
Pax Christi
Linus2nd
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ngill09
Guest
Would you say God’s existence is implausible because God has no cause?
No one is saying nothing causes galaxies to exist. I’m saying no person causes galaxies to exist.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
No, I would say that if we exist then the existence of God is the most rational and most plausable conclusion we can have to explain how we and the universe came to be.
Of course that is an unintelligible response. It is not plausable that ’ dirt ’ caused itself, or that gravity caused itself, or whatever. I know that supposedly some very intelligent people talk that way but it is hard to believe that they really believe it. I think they are just " whistling in the grave yard. " Just bravado before the cheering crowds.
Linus2nd
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