What does "before Abraham" mean?

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pohandes said:
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Anesti33:
It is a yes/no question, and you deflected it.
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I said yes. They have time
Vico said:
God creates space-time and then pure spiritual beings (angels) and then material creatures. The human creatures have rational soul created with the body.
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It is not a answer to what I am saying. Does souls die?
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A soul has a beginning but no end.
 
Since we’re in the “Philosophy” sub-forum, could you clarify what you mean by “end”? Do you mean “the goal, the conclusion of the nature of a thing” or do you mean “the final endpoint”?
 
pohandes said:
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Vico:
A soul has a beginning but no end.
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Every material thing has a end.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church
1016 By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul. Just as Christ is risen and lives for ever, so all of us will rise at the last day.
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Anesti33 said:
Since we’re in the “Philosophy” sub-forum, could you clarify what you mean by “end”? Do you mean “the goal, the conclusion of the nature of a thing” or do you mean “the final endpoint”?
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I mean “destroy”
Vico said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1016 By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul. Just as Christ is risen and lives for ever, so all of us will rise at the last day.
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What is its relation to what I said?
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“Every material thing has a destroy”

Is that what you are saying?
 
pohandes said:
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What is its relation to what I said?
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Pohandes: I’m saying souls are not material to have time.
Vico: (Aquinas) as the soul is naturally the form of the body, it was necessarily created, not separately, but in the body.
Pohandes: souls are not material
Vico: The human creatures have rational soul created with the body.
Pohandes: Does souls die?
Vico: A soul has a beginning but no end.
Pohandes: Every material thing has a end.

So with all those posts, do you not see that since a soul has a beginning and not created separately from the body, it is in-time, even though it is not material like the body? Also, we live forever in our resurrected bodies.
 
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Vico said:
So with all those posts, do you not see that since a soul has a beginning and not created separately from the body, it is in-time, even though it is not material like the body? Also, we live forever in our resurrected bodies.
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The word has a beginning that he existed in it. A creature has a beginning, but this beginning may not be in time.
 
pohandes said:
But if consider soul as a timeless being?
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what do you mean by timeless? Do you mean outside of time and/or eternal?

Only God is outside of time and eternal.

Therefore by your interpretation Jesus is saying he is God.
 
It is just a temporal reference. Abraham was cited because the pharisees said eariler in the discussion that they were the seed of Abraham.

Context is very important.
 
pohandes said:
Yes, I mean it. Soul is immortal, then it is not material, and when it is not material, it is timeless.
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a human soul is immortal but not eternal. A soul is created immortal. The act of creation means it didn’t exist and now it does. Therefore it is not eternal. God is both eternal and immortal. We are only immortal as souls
 
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