What does 'Church no, Jesus yes' mean?

[ajpirc]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

 

[josephback]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

It’s a very individualistic, dangerous religion! We need the Church. It would be an interesting phenomenon to study though. Maybe it’s similar or related to the Calvinistic tendency for very austere, “no frills” churches. Of course the way to test that would be to see how many were calvinists. At any rate it subtracts from the faith.

 

[jmcrae]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

It is the arrogant belief that you, and you alone, know what Jesus is thinking - and that, by an astounding coincidence, Jesus agrees in every way with you - that He in fact thinks with your mind, and that the voice of your own thoughts is, in fact, His voice, speaking to you.

It is, therefore, extremely difficult to argue with a “Jesus and me” believer.

 

[bogeydogg]

It means the person is either seriously misinformed or else not a Christian at all. After all it is a strange to disconnect to say that you love Christ but not His Body.

“How can anyone say he has God for his Father if he does not also have the Church as his mother?” St. Augustine

God Bless

 

[freerf]

I don’t believe it means any of those things mentioned above, at least to any intelligent Protestant.

Ask this question in a Protestant forum if you want a serious answer. So far, all that has been put forth are “straw man” positions, and nothing worth considering seriously.

When I want to know about Catholic teaching, I go to a catholic forum, and vice versa. Having asked about Catholic teaching on a Protestant website, I know the kind of self-serving hogwash people dish out (not all people, mind you).

To do otherwise is to keep oneself in ignorance.

 

[freerf]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

Basically it is the idea that Jesus can save without the Catholic Church. . .or any man-made church. It is the idea that the Catholic Church does not house Jesus – Jesus houses the Church. It’s a simplistic slogan that represents some Protestant beliefs, such as sola scriptura, etc…I wouldn’t try to derive too much from it. Bone up on basic Protestant theory and you’ll soon understand what it means.

 

[TrueLight]

I don’t believe it means any of those things mentioned above, at least to any intelligent Protestant.

Ask this question in a Protestant forum if you want a serious answer. So far, all that has been put forth are “straw man” positions, and nothing worth considering seriously.

When I want to know about Catholic teaching, I go to a catholic forum, and vice versa. Having asked about Catholic teaching on a Protestant website, I know the kind of self-serving hogwash people dish out (not all people, mind you).

To do otherwise is to keep oneself in ignorance.

I have to agree with you there.

I think if Catholics approach Protestants with the minimum understanding that the majority of Protestants are not -complete FOOLS, and that for the most part there are reasons for the beliefs, although there may be some error, then it will be easier to have conversations.

 

[freerf]

I have to agree with you there.

I think if Catholics approach Protestants with the minimum understanding that the majority of Protestants are not -complete FOOLS, and that for the most part there are reasons for the beliefs, although there may be some error, then it will be easier to have conversations.

Oh, thank God for you!

 

[freerf]

I have to agree with you there.

I think if Catholics approach Protestants with the minimum understanding that the majority of Protestants are not -complete FOOLS, and that for the most part there are reasons for the beliefs, although there may be some error, then it will be easier to have conversations.

As they say, even rat poison is 98% good to eat. . .it’s the 2% that’ll kill you. The tough part is rationally harvesting the 98 from the 2. If you cannot do that, you’ll windup alienating yourslef from those who need your help.

 

[po18guy]

It is the arrogant belief that you, and you alone, know what Jesus is thinking - and that, by an astounding coincidence, Jesus agrees in every way with you - that He in fact thinks with your mind, and that the voice of your own thoughts is, in fact, His voice, speaking to you.

It is, therefore, extremely difficult to argue with a “Jesus and me” believer.

To me, the “me and Jesus” reductionism takes on an entire new meaning. Since Jesus is the Head, and we are the Body, essentially they want a decapitated head to hang on their personal trophy wall. A little macabre, but…

 

[po18guy]

I have to agree with you there.

I think if Catholics approach Protestants with the minimum understanding that the majority of Protestants are not -complete FOOLS, and that for the most part there are reasons for the beliefs, although there may be some error, then it will be easier to have conversations.

However, nothing will light up these fora faster than someone thumping their bible who assumes that almost 2,000 years of the greatest theologians the world has ever known are all wrong and only they and their bible are right. While I am sure that such is not offered in arrogance, it certainly does appear to be exactly that.

 

[William_Pitts]

“Jesus yes, Church no”, is totally inconceivable with the intention of Christ. This individualistically chosen Jesus is an imaginary Jesus. We cannot have Jesus without the reality he created and in which he communicates himself. Between the Son of God-made-flesh and his Church there is a profound, unbreakable and mysterious continuity by which Christ is present today in his people. He is always contemporary with us, he is always contemporary with the Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles and alive in the succession of the Apostles. And his very presence in the community, in which he himself is always with us, is the reason for our joy.

“Jesus, Yes; the Church, No” is a perfectly good answer to a lot of things, and a wrong answer to several others.

Who saves you? Jesus, Yes. The Church, No. The church should proclaim Christ, but never get itself confused with Christ.

How does the Holy Spirit come to us? “Jesus? Yes. The Church? No.” At least not on tap.

What’s the message of the Gospel? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.” The Gospel is Jesus centered, and the church should be, too.

What is the whole Bible about? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.” The church is there, but it’s not the central message of the Bible.

To whom do I owe complete submission, loyalty and allegiance? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.”

What am I proclaiming in evangelism? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.” The church has its place in evangelism, but not as the bread of life given for the world.

What is the church actually all about? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.” The church equips and nurtures disciples in their journey with Jesus. The church should promote Jesus to those who need to know and follow him. It shouldn’t confuse church activities with discipleship.

What is our complete hope in life and in death? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.” Jesus is the hope of all Christians and the central hope of the church.

Who are we following? Whom are we serving in serving the poor or the oppressed? Whom are we imitating in suffering or generosity or compassion? “Jesus, Yes. The Church, No.”

We may be imitating those in the church who follow and imitate him, but it is Jesus whose footsteps we follow.

There are more questions; questions about the church itself and questions about what it means to say “Yes” and “No.”

It’s not a simple matter, but it is a matter on which we should settle and be stubborn. In an environment where Christianity is more and more defined by leaders to make themselves and their institutions essential and powerful, the Jesus shaped believer must maintain the importance of “Jesus- Yes, the Church, No” in the right ways and for the right questions.

There is a “Jesus, Yes; the Church, Yes too!” that can and should be spoken at the right ways and times, but I believe that “Yes” comes when we know how to distinguish it from the wrong kinds of yes’s or from saying yes to whatever leaders signal us to nod to.

We’re wrestling with the connection between Jesus and the church these days. I am going to contend that the church fulfills an important role in the missional movement that comes from Jesus through the Spirit into the world, but the church doesn’t ever take a place where a “church shaped” Christianity becomes the norm.

 

[William_Pitts]

Not 100 people in the United States hate the Roman Catholic Church, but millions hate what they mistakenly think the Roman Catholic Church is. – Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

 

[eagle_eye222001]

It means Jesus didn’t start a Church with a teaching authority.

Thus, one can bypass the church, and be completely fine.

 

[Esdra]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

Hi,

I called myself for quite a time a “non-denominational” Christian (which is a literal translation from the German and has nothing to do with the existing Churches in the US!) and meant with that that I did believe in Jesus Christ and that He is my saviour and that I read in the Holy Bible more or less daily - and there I came to almost the same conclusions than the Baptist Church I am attending at the moment!

For me “Church no, Jesus yes” was a state of searching the Jesus of the Bible, meaning, searching a Church that teaches what I have found out for myself to be true. And after 8 years my search ended in the Baptist Church (after close contact with LDS and later on CofC. And )

However, in general I think that by the term “Church no, Jesus yes”, are people that are something like Agnostics

in Christ,

 

[Cat]

I have to agree with you there.

I think if Catholics approach Protestants with the minimum understanding that the majority of Protestants are not -complete FOOLS, and that for the most part there are reasons for the beliefs, although there may be some error, then it will be easier to have conversations.

This is a really excellent post. I think that a lot of Catholics should make a copy of this and read it every day.

There are some absolutely brilliant Protestant teachers, both past and present. And a lot of regular Protestants spend an hour or more a day studying the Bible and good Bible study guides. They know a lot, usually a lot more than the average Catholic.

I suspect that a lot of Catholics approach their Protestant friends and relatives with the idea that they are fools, and then get their legs chewed off. I can’t help but think that this is damaging to their Catholic faith.

BTW, I’ve never heard the phrase, “Church no, Jesus yes” from any evangelical Protestant group. I’ve heard the sentiment expressed by Harold Camping, who believes, based on Scripture, that we are now “out” of the Church Age. He teaches that any manifestion of organized religion is not of God.

But most Protestants believe strongly that Christians need to be connected to a “body” of Christ, and working with other Christians.

 

[Esdra]

Hi,

…

For me “Church no, Jesus yes” was a state of searching the Jesus of the Bible, meaning, searching a Church that teaches what I have found out for myself to be true. And after 8 years my search ended in the Baptist Church. (after close [E-Mail] contact with LDS and later on CofC. Followed by a time I was in Email Contact with a SDA pastor. And then contact to you guyes here in CAF where I really learned a lot about the (Roman) Catholic faith.
My first experiences with Protestants, however, were in a Lutheran and Reformed Evangelical Church [The term is “United Evangelical Church”] where my father has taken me some times to show me that there are also “other Christians out there”. - And I have felt well there right from the beginning.)

…

Sorry, I didn’t complete the sentence! .

in Christ,

 

[babylonsfalling]

There is a quote by Pope Benedict that says (READ BELOW). I was wondering what does ‘Church no, Jesus yes’ mean?

I’ve heard that many fundamentalist Protestants believe in a ‘just me and Jesus’ religion. I believe that without the Catholic Church the probability of my salvation wouldn’t be very high. So what is this so-called ‘just me and Jesus’ religion?

Personally I never even heard the phrase; ’Church no, Jesus yes’ before but the meaning is self-evident. Overall, it’s acceptive of Christ and rejective of church. We know that protestants don’t really reject church though so it’s obviously something of a hyperbolic sound byte.

Protestants believe Christ is necessary, which Catholics agree with. The first Protestants actually learned this from the Catholic Church anyway so it’s not like they came up with anything new in that regard.

Catholics consider rejecting the Catholic Church akin to rejecting Christ because they believe their church was directly started by Christ as something to bring men to God. Rejecting something divinely created by God, which has a divinely given mission is obviously a really big deal.

Rejecting the Protestant church is a different type of rejection though. Protestants don’t think church is necessary in the first place, which doesn’t really speak well for their opinion of their own church. Protestants themselves seem not to attach much (if any)“divine origins” to their church so naturally, it would not be such a big deal to leave the protestant church, or to say something like “Church no”

In truth though, I’ve never heard ANY non Catholic Christian say anything like…“Church, no”.

 

[TimothyH]

There are quite a few non-denominational Churches here where I live who have simultaneously stated “Jesus Yes, Religion No” worship series, so many so that I have to question wheter they are utilizing a central source of doctrine. When a bunch of Churches all within a 25 mile radius of each other offer similarly themed worship series, one has to wonder if they have not formed, or at least made use of an loosely formed religion.

I believe, as has been communicated to me, that “Jesus… not religion” means that one can be saved through knowledge of the Bible and faith in Jesus outside of the context of organized religion. In many cases, organized religion is seen not only as unnessisary but also as a hinderance to salvation. I don’t think I’m too far off base here based on what my Evangelical friends have communicated to me.

This is based on the belief that all religions are fallible institutions created by men, rather than the Catholic view which is that the Holy Catholic Church was created by God as his infallible instrument of salvation among men.

What is quite ironic about the Jesus and Me Churches which teach that organized religion is either unnessisary for or a hindrance to salvation, is how many of them tout how they are growing and all have extensive marketing campaigns aimed at growht. One Church in particular has a billboard which reads “One Church, Two Locations!” Another has a big sign which says, “Seven Churches in one” and another says “Come grow with us.”

Jesus without religion seems like a self refuting doctrine to me. It’s untenable, like coffee without a cup.

-Tim-

 

[Hiskid1973]

I never heard the heard the expression before but we each individualy need to come to Christ via a born anew/conversion of the heart experience and are made part of the body…Every part is needed as we gather in our local ekklesia’s…We encourage ad strengthen each other as we are equipped to minister by our leadership…I have missed church for the last 8-9 months from heath problems from a work accident…I miss my loving church family as they miss me…It’s one thing to put on a worship cd and praise and worship the Lord it is another to worship corporately…grace and peace to all.