What does Islam truely teach about the Salvation of Non-Muslims?

[r.gonzales]

exoflare:

r.gonzales,

I noticed one of the links you posted just now uses a hadith in its explanations of interpreting the Quran. The thing is, one time when I cited information from a hadith, another person on this board (a Muslim) told me that it didn’t matter because all the hadiths are nothing more than legends and their contents are not guaranteed to be correct. Can you clear this up?

greetings.

whoever said this has effectively denied the Quran. prophetic hadeeths make up the second source of legislation in islam. there are varying gradings for them, some are authentic, some have slight weaknesses but are strong enogh to use as evidences or support, some are weak and some are outright forgeries. whatever is authentically narrated from prophet muhammad and his companions are to be accepted and used as evidences and proofs, whereas those that are found to have weaknesses aren’t.

Allah says in numerous places in the Quran that He has sent us the Book and the Wisdom. the Book in these verses refers to the Quran and the Wisdom refers to prophet muhammad’s sunnah, which are found within the authentic prophetic hadeeths. there are also other verses that prove that the prophet’s sunnah is to be taken as a source of legislation in islam and that the sunnah helps explain the Quran (one of which i have already posted - 3:31).

 

[PMV]

The following is from a Muslim friend of mine who’s been banned from posting at “thetruereligion.org” because of his view on Salvation;

QUOTE:

3:19. Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâm. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

I prefer Muhammad Asad’s translation here, and I will use it henceforth:

3:19. Behold, the only [true] religion in the sight of God is [man’s] self-surrender unto Him; and those who were vouchsafed revelation aforetime took, out of mutual jealous, to divergent views [on this point] only after knowledge [thereof] had come unto them. But as for him who denies the truth of God’s messages-behold, God is swift in reckoning!

What does Islam mean? Don’t know? No wait, rather, you choose to skip over the fine details. Islam means submission to God. Can you argue with that point? No, you can’t my boy. Now, we CAN argue what submission to God is. Let’s use Webster’s definition is of submission (oh, wait, is looking at a Christian dictionary haraam?)

1. an act or instance of submitting.
2. the condition of having submitted.
3. submissive conduct or attitude.
4. something that is submitted, as an application.
5. Law. an agreement between parties involved in a dispute, to abide by the decision of an arbitrator or arbitrators.

Now, unless you’re going to attempt to argue with me that Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc don’t believe in one God (which you will, you’ve sunk pretty low in your arguments before) then you lose this point. The true religion is submission to God. Remember, God has sent ever nation a messenger. Let me quote that just so you won’t tell me it’s a lie.

10:47. Now every community has had an apostle: and only after their apostle has appeared [and delivered his message] is judgment passed on them, in all equity; and never are they wrong.

 

[PMV]

Oh no! Another devasting quote to your argument? Seems so. Let’s take the person who inspired/wrote/whatever the Hindu holy book the Baghavad’Gita which speaks how God is one, but has many forms (of course you wouldn’t know, you’ve never read a book besides the Qur’an, because it’s haraam right? Man you crack me up, could you come to my birthday party?). We can see the Qur’an’s statement of corruption is obvious in this text, as in many other texts, but we can also see it contains the essence of truth. Now, on the Day of Judgment, will they be wrong? Nah. Their prophet will intercede on their behalf on how well they followed the teachings of God.

Oh, ahh, now unto your long list of quotes taken out of context. You know, you remind me quite a bit of those anti-Islamic groups, ever think about joining them? You could be like Ibn Warraq, they would adore you. You don’t really care about Islam, you care about you feeling superior to others, and anti-Islamics can make you feel that way. All it will cost you is you soul. Oh yeah, that’s gone.

3:118. O you who have attained to faith! Do not take your bosoms-friends people who are not of your kind. They spare no effort to corrupt you; they would love to see you in distress. Vehement hatred has already come into the open from out of their mouths, but what their hearts conceal is yet worse. We have indeed made the signs [thereof] clear unto you, if you would but use your reason.

Very interesting quote here. This is one of the quotes that are screaming for people like you to take out of context. Alas, Muhammad Asad puts this in perspective for us:

“Some of the commentators incline to the view that this expression comprises all non-Muslims: but this view obviously conflicts with 60:8-9 where the believers are expressly allowed to form friendships with such of the non-believers as are not hostile to them and to their faith. Morever, the sequence makes it clear that by ‘those who are not of your kind’ are meant only for people whose enmity to Islam and its followers has become apparent from their behavior and their utterances. The rendering adopted by me, “people who are not of your kind” implies that their outlook on life is so fundamentally opposed to that of Muslims that genuine friendship is entirely out of question.”

I’ll get to 60:8-9 in a bit, but for now let’s concentrate on whether other religions fundamentally are against the Islamic way of life. What religion encourages killing? Beating children? Being disrespectful to a person respectful of you. None. Ironically, even the infamous Church of Satan is against these things. So in theory, you wouldn’t be able to find “enemies” based on religion.

3:119. Lo! It is you who [are prepared to] love them, but they will not love you, although you believe in all of the revelation. And when they meet you, they assert, “We believe [as you believe]”; but when they find themselves alone, they gnaw their fingers in rage against you.

Now, I’m going to put BOTH these quotes into proper context. Ahh, you’ll probably skip over anything that will prove you wrong. At least I tried.

3.113-115. [But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people, who recite God’s messages throughout the night, and they prostrate themselves [before Him]. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works: and these are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, they shall never be denied the reward thereof: for, God has full knowledge over those who are conscious of him.

I was wondering how you could skip over that? Have you even read the Qur’an? Unlikely. I could understand blindfolded maybe.

60:1-2. O you who have attained to faith! Do not take My enemies – who are your enemies as well – for your friends, showing them affection even though they are bent on denying whatever truth has come unto you, [and even though] they have driven the Apostle and yourselves away, [only] because you believe in God, your Sustainer! If [it be true that] you have gone fourth [from your homes] to strive in My cause, and out of a longing for My goodly acceptance, [do not take them for your friends,] inclining towards them in secret affection: for I am fully aware of all that you do openly. And any of you who does this has already strayed from the right path.

 

[PMV]

Eh. If you’re using this quote you’re inferring Christians and Jews are enemies of God. Yet I’ve already proved that they have their good and bad seeds.

You use 60:4-5, but whatever point you tried to make was vague. I’ll leave it alone.

60:8. As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably.

Now, are many Christians and Jews fighting us on the account of our faith? I guess some are. But as I’ve made clear to you before, many don’t, and they are righteous. The Qur’an also makes clear that we cannot judge people in a group, but that individual actions are important. One Christian being evil does not make all Christians evil. Ironically, isn’t this what Muslims have tried to tell others about the faith after 9-11-2001? Indeed God does love those who act equitably. Knowing that, how do you sleep at night?

Oh, you ask what Ahmedyhy’s religion was? He is a true Muslim. Unlike you.

If you don’t mind one last quote.

May Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala punish the devils from among the men and jinns as they desrve. May Allah protect us from the devils among the men and jinns and from the Shaitan.

“Verily, those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”
[al-Bayyinah 98:6]

Let’s take that one for example. That is a verse that is very easy to take the wrong way. Read what it says “whose who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture”. That means people who may profess to be Christian or Jewish but are actually bad people. Why else would they say “disbelieve among”? That would be like saying “those who lose among the losers.” It doesn’t make sense. That correct way to interpret it is “those who lose among the winners” or “disbelieve among the people of the Scripture.” This appears quite a few times in the Qur’an if I’m correct, so keep that in mind.

Now, you bring up a very interesting point when you quoted “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]. What does Islam mean?

If you don’t mind, I’d like to quote my first letter to you, in which I was arguing with a Muslim extremist on this board (I never recieved a rebuttal from him for some reason hehe):

(Quote from first letter)

Christians and Jews are technically Muslims since they submit to God, no? And keep in mind this very important quote:

 

[PMV]

3.113-115. [But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people, who recite God’s messages throughout the night, and they prostrate themselves [before Him]. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works: and these are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, they shall never be denied the reward thereof: for, God has full knowledge over those who are conscious of him.

This quote helps put everything into context. Often in the Qur’an God points out some of the bad parts of what the old believers have become (for example, Jews made their religion mostly race only and were often racist at that period of time). But still, the Qur’an aknowledges not all of them are like that, and there are people among them who simply love God and want to do his wishes (for example yourself).

As for the Hadith, keep in mind most Hadith are incorrect. After Muhammad’s (PBUH) people started creating fake Hadith (and often evil ones) to justify actions. For example, if a Caliph wanted to put mass Christians to death, he might fake a Hadith saying it was alll right to do so. Read the book The Quest for the Historical Muhammad by Ibn Warraq and you’ll understand how unreliable Islamic resources are on the Prophet’s (PBUH) life.

I hope this clears everything up for you. Most of your quotes can be answered by me (the ones quoted directly from the Prophet (PBUH) are from the Hadith). The rest of your quotes I noticed were just a description of hell, and didn’t describe anything that could be taken as anti-Christian or anti-Semitic. Please remember not all Muslims are bad, not all Muslims are like the ones on this forum. Thank you for your time in reading this.

QUOTE

The hadeeth is: “By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell.” (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).

In my opinion that is not a reliable Hadith, there are people disagree with the Hadith Bukhari and Muslim, they were compiled by so-called “experts” of Islam.

Now, sadly, I’m going to have to tell you this, and it hurts me real bad to say it (most of my friends are other religions other than Islam): the popular Muslim opinion is that all other religions go to hell. But sadly, almost every religion believes this about themselves. Ever since I was little, I had to deal with these extremists. It hurts me inside, alot. I love my friends, they’re good people, you’re a good person, I don’t think in any way God can go send good people who’s beliefs slightly differ from Islamic beliefs to hell.

So far no one has been able to refute my arguments that Christians and Jews have a clear spot in heaven as well. No one. Not even the so-called “Islamic experts”. That’s the reason I cannot post on this board: my views are different. Yet, my views have a strong ground. I quote directly from the Holy Qur’an itself. I also use logic.

END OF QUOTE

He sent this to someone else also who was a Muslim extremist.

 

[Faith101]

PMV:

Eh. If you’re using this quote you’re inferring Christians and Jews are enemies of God. Yet I’ve already proved that they have their good and bad seeds.

You use 60:4-5, but whatever point you tried to make was vague. I’ll leave it alone.

60:8. As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably.

Now, are many Christians and Jews fighting us on the account of our faith? I guess some are. But as I’ve made clear to you before, many don’t, and they are righteous. The Qur’an also makes clear that we cannot judge people in a group, but that individual actions are important. One Christian being evil does not make all Christians evil. Ironically, isn’t this what Muslims have tried to tell others about the faith after 9-11-2001? Indeed God does love those who act equitably. Knowing that, how do you sleep at night?

Oh, you ask what Ahmedyhy’s religion was? He is a true Muslim. Unlike you.

If you don’t mind one last quote.

May Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala punish the devils from among the men and jinns as they desrve. May Allah protect us from the devils among the men and jinns and from the Shaitan.

“Verily, those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”
[al-Bayyinah 98:6]

Let’s take that one for example. That is a verse that is very easy to take the wrong way. Read what it says “whose who disbelieve among the people of the Scripture”. That means people who may profess to be Christian or Jewish but are actually bad people. Why else would they say “disbelieve among”? That would be like saying “those who lose among the losers.” It doesn’t make sense. That correct way to interpret it is “those who lose among the winners” or “disbelieve among the people of the Scripture.” This appears quite a few times in the Qur’an if I’m correct, so keep that in mind.

Now, you bring up a very interesting point when you quoted “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]. What does Islam mean?

If you don’t mind, I’d like to quote my first letter to you, in which I was arguing with a Muslim extremist on this board (I never recieved a rebuttal from him for some reason hehe):

(Quote from first letter)

Christians and Jews are technically Muslims since they submit to God, no? And keep in mind this very important quote:

Hey PMV.

that letter from your friend is too full of sarcasm and belittling for me to understand what the message was…can you summarize in a paragraph or two? thanks

 

[PMV]

Hey Faith101,

Basically, he was trying to explain verses in the Quran that supposedly condemn Christians and Jews to Hell. The reason he used a lot of sarcasm is because this entire article was originally written to a moderator (on "thetruereligion.org) who banned him from the board. What he basically says is that these verses are taken out of context and certain “experts” on Islam probably are not 100% reliable. He explains this thouroughly when he discusses each verse.

Also, I think it’s too much of a close minded view of the world to believe anyone could be damned forever simply because they heard of something and didn’t follow it. To believe this is to put limits on what you think God is capable of, and it’s not even something that Catholicism teaches. Do you truely believe that someone who hears Muhhamad’s teachings but lives as a righteous Christian (submits to God) will be forever damned to Hell? That belief is practically identical to Protestantism.

 

[Faith101]

Basically, he was trying to explain verses in the Quran that supposedly condemn Christians and Jews to Hell. The reason he used a lot of sarcasm is because this entire article was originally written to a moderator (on "thetruereligion.org) who banned him from the board. What he basically says is that these verses are taken out of context and certain “experts” on Islam probably are not 100% reliable. He explains this thouroughly when he discusses each verse.

Is your friend a scholar on Islam? How long and where did he study Islam to give him authority to comment on the verses.

Also, I think it’s too much of a close minded view of the world to believe anyone could be damned forever simply because they heard of something and didn’t follow it. To believe this is to put limits on what you think God is capable of, and it’s not even something that Catholicism teaches. Do you truely believe that someone who hears Muhhamad’s teachings but lives as a righteous Christian (submits to God) will be forever damned to Hell? That belief is practically identical to Protestantism.

I truly dont understand how someone can hear Mohamed’s (pbuh) message and not accept it. But that is a biased view since I am Muslim. THe message just makes too much sense. Worship God, pray to God directly. Seek forgiveness and you shall be forgiven.

IN any case, I dont make the rules…the verse in the Quran is clear. All everyone (Muslims and Christians) should do is investigate their beliefs and see if they are really comfortable with them. God knows best who will recieve His mercy. All I can do is relay to you the message from the Quran.

They do blaspheme who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (Chapter #5, Verse #72)

And pray…we should never underestimate the power of prayer…try to pray directly to God in the name of God…ask to be guided to the straight path. God willing, He hears our prayers.

Keep in mind that on the day of Judgement no injustice shall be done to anyone. God is the Most Just

May we all be guided to the straight path and enter paradise together. Ameen

 

[r.gonzales]

greetings.

pmv, no disrespect intended to your muslim friend, but skimming through the reply written by him, it seems to me that he’s relying a bit too much on his own intellect to interpret things - which isn’t a very reliable way of doing things - especially when it doesn’t even seem like he understands arabic.

i’ll try to read the reply more thoroughly and if i have time i’ll try to post up some comments to clear up the misconceptions your friend has.

peace.

ps. btw, i don’t visit the site very often, in fact, almost never… however, from what i know of thetruereligion.org, it’s a pretty good site in terms of islamic understanding and correct beliefs.

 

[PMV]

Faith101:

Is your friend a scholar on Islam? How long and where did he study Islam to give him authority to comment on the verses.

No, I do not believe so; however, his interpretations seem to make sense. Maybe it wasn’t the best idea for me to post that, but it’s another way for a Muslim to view things. It seems that Islamic “experts” tried to interpret the verses for the worst meanings.

Faith101:

I truly dont understand how someone can hear Mohamed’s (pbuh) message and not accept it. But that is a biased view since I am Muslim. THe message just makes too much sense. Worship God, pray to God directly. Seek forgiveness and you shall be forgiven.

Worshipping God, praying to Him and seeking forgiveness is excactly what us Christians do, which was the message of Jesus.

Faith101:
They do blaspheme who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (Chapter #5, Verse #72)

Whoa, I guess Muslims really do have a low opinion of Christians. The Quran is wrong, because Jesus actually did claim to be God and allowed others to worship him. Also, Christians do not “join other gods with Allah”; Jesus and the Holy Spirit *are *God, not “partners” of God.

I don’t know how someone could fully understand what Jesus did for mankind and deny that reality. If you would just take time to learn about our view of Jesus you’d truely understand our devotion to Him.

However Faith101, I’m sure you have good intentions engaging in apologetics with us. You want to show us your view of Truth, which tells a lot. Continue in dialogue with us.

 

[Faith101]

.

Whoa, I guess Muslims really do have a low opinion of Christians.

This is not true. The Quran is sent not to critizise people but to warn them. THe Quran not only warns CHristians but muslims as well. Its a book that is meant to guide, not to harass.

Also, Christians do not “join other gods with Allah”; Jesus and the Holy

Spirit *are *God, not “partners” of God. ]

Does that really make sense to you? When you pray, who do you believe you are praying to? Jesus, the son. Or God the Father. Or the holy spirit. Or all 3 (understanding that they are all one).

color=black]I don’t know how someone could fully understand what Jesus did for mankind and deny that reality. If you would just take time to learn about our view of Jesus you’d truely understand our devotion to Him.

I do understand your devotion to him…but so too are muslims

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. (Chapter #3, Verse #45)

We just dont elevate him to the status of divinity. He never told anyone to worship him…all that is left is conjecture and interpreation.

May God guide us all to the straight path and help us get into paradise together

 

[r.gonzales]

greetings.

i’ve read through your friend’s reply and i’m sorry to say, but it has an air of cockiness and arrogance that just doesn’t befit. in any case though, here are my comments to what he’s mentioned…

3:19. Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâm. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

I prefer Muhammad Asad’s translation here, and I will use it henceforth:

3:19. Behold, the only [true] religion in the sight of God is [man’s] self-surrender unto Him; and those who were vouchsafed revelation aforetime took, out of mutual jealous, to divergent views [on this point] only after knowledge [thereof] had come unto them. But as for him who denies the truth of God’s messages-behold, God is swift in reckoning!

i’ve browsed through muhammad asad’s translation and commentary and i’ve found numerous mistakes in interpretation. his translation has mu’tazili perspetive - the mu’tazilah were one of the first 4 deviant sects to emerge from amongst the muslims, the original 4 which all other devant sects are derived from. so, i wouldn’t really consider his translation to be a reliable one at all.

with regards to this specific verse, of the two translations given here, the one closest to what it says in the arabic is the first one, which is probably from the translation done by m. muhsin khan. a more accurate translation of the verse is, “indeed, the religion with Allah is al-islam. and those who were given the Book did not differ out of injustice between them except after the knowledge came to them. and whoever disbelieves in Allah’s verses, then indeed, Allah is swift in reckoning.” its explanation as found in the book tafseer al-muyassar, which is a book giving you the basic meanings of the verses without the discussions that some of the other books of exegesis go into, states:

“indeed the religion that Allah is pleased with for His creation, sent His messengers with and does not accept other than it is al-islam. it is compliance to Allah alone with obedience, submission to Him with servitude and following the messengers in what He sent them with in every time until they concluded with muhammad, may Allah send greetings and peace upon him, who after his mission, Allah will not accept from anyone a religion other than the islam he was sent with. and the differing between the people of the Book from the jews and the christians and their splitting up into groups and parties did not occur except after the proof was established upon them with the sending of the messengers and the revealing of the Books; out of injustice and jealousy seeking worldly possessions. and whoever rejects Allah’s verses that were sent down and the verses indicating His lordship and His divinity, then indeed Allah is swift in reckoning, and He will reward them with what they used to do.”

What does Islam mean? Don’t know? No wait, rather, you choose to skip over the fine details. Islam means submission to God. Can you argue with that point? No, you can’t my boy. Now, we CAN argue what submission to God is. Let’s use Webster’s definition is of submission (oh, wait, is looking at a Christian dictionary haraam?)

1. an act or instance of submitting.
2. the condition of having submitted.
3. submissive conduct or attitude.
4. something that is submitted, as an application.
5. Law. an agreement between parties involved in a dispute, to abide by the decision of an arbitrator or arbitrators.

your friend is correct in that islam means submission to the will of God. however, when you add the definite particle “al” to it, as is found in this verse, it refers specifically to the religion that prophet muhammad was sent with. and his religion, al-islam, is built upon 5 pillars and islamic faith is built upon 6. without these pillars, there is no islam and there is no faith.

al-islam’s 5 pillars: testimony of faith (testifying that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and that muhammad is His messenger), 5 daily prayers, paying the zakaah, fasting ramadaan and pilgrimage to the holy house in mecca at least once in your life if you are able.

faith’s 6 pillars: belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, the last day and predecree - its good and its bad.

regardless of whatever dictionary definition of “islam” your muslim friend whats to provide, the simple fact of the matter is that christians and jews reject muhammad’s prophethood and messengership, thus effectively nullifying any type of “islam” they might have had. this in and of itself is enough to refute what your friend has proposed in his reply to those at thetruereligion.org.

to be continued…

 

[r.gonzales]

continuation…

Now, unless you’re going to attempt to argue with me that Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc don’t believe in one God (which you will, you’ve sunk pretty low in your arguments before) then you lose this point. The true religion is submission to God. Remember, God has sent ever nation a messenger. Let me quote that just so you won’t tell me it’s a lie.

10:47. Now every community has had an apostle: and only after their apostle has appeared [and delivered his message] is judgment passed on them, in all equity; and never are they wrong.

Oh no! Another devasting quote to your argument? Seems so. Let’s take the person who inspired/wrote/whatever the Hindu holy book the Baghavad’Gita which speaks how God is one, but has many forms (of course you wouldn’t know, you’ve never read a book besides the Qur’an, because it’s haraam right? Man you crack me up, could you come to my birthday party?). We can see the Qur’an’s statement of corruption is obvious in this text, as in many other texts, but we can also see it contains the essence of truth. Now, on the Day of Judgment, will they be wrong? Nah. Their prophet will intercede on their behalf on how well they followed the teachings of God.

the translation of the verse provided kinda sucks. it should read, “and for every nation is a messenger, so when their messenger came he judged between them with justice and they were not oppressed.”

for the record, the ummah (nation) of muhammad is all of mankind as is shown in verse 7:158, where Allah commands prophet muhammad, “say: o mankind, i am Allah’s messenger to you all, the One who the dominion of the heavens and the earth belong to. there is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him. He gives life and He causes death. so believe in Allah and His messenger, the illiterate prophet who believes in Allah and His words. follow him in hopes that you be guided.” so, since he is the last of the prophets and messengers, those who lived during his time and those who came after his time until the day of judgement are from his nation and they are all obligated to follow and believe in him.

as for the stuff your friend mentioned about other religions believing in only one god, then this isn’t exactly the place i want to get into this discussion, but the issue is not so much about believing in one God, it’s more about associating partners and equals to Allah in worship. this is the main reason the prophets and messengers were sent and is the meaning of the statement, “laa ilaaha illallah”, whose literal word for word translation is, “there is no deity except Allah.” the statement’s full meaning “there is no deity [worthy of worship] except Allah.” and this is because to say that there is only one deity is false, as is shown by the simple fact that millions of deities exist and are worshipped by people. regardless of how your friend wants to go on about the hindus only believing in one god, the simple fact of the matter is that the hindus have some 33 million different deities that they worship. and this is the true point of contention against them, aside from the fact that they don’t follow prophet muhammad or the Quran, which was revealed to all of mankind.

to be continued…

 

[exoflare]

r.gonzales:

to be continued…

…deen?

 

[PMV]

Faith101:

Does that really make sense to you? When you pray, who do you believe you are praying to? Jesus, the son. Or God the Father. Or the holy spirit. Or all 3 (understanding that they are all one).

Yes, it makes sense because it could go either way. We can pray individually to each person, or to the three at the same time. Think of it like a clover; one clover has three leaves (this is the example St. Peter uses). It is humble to love and serve God without fully grasping the concept of Him.

Faith101:

We just dont elevate him to the status of divinity. He never told anyone to worship him…all that is left is conjecture and interpreation.

I think this was already explained very well for you. From the verses I’ve seen it’s very clear that what is contained in the Bible is belief that Jesus is God. Read the verses again.

 

[r.gonzales]

…deen?

huh?

 

[r.gonzales]

continuation…

3:118. O you who have attained to faith! Do not take your bosoms-friends people who are not of your kind. They spare no effort to corrupt you; they would love to see you in distress. Vehement hatred has already come into the open from out of their mouths, but what their hearts conceal is yet worse. We have indeed made the signs [thereof] clear unto you, if you would but use your reason.

Very interesting quote here. This is one of the quotes that are screaming for people like you to take out of context. Alas, Muhammad Asad puts this in perspective for us:

“Some of the commentators incline to the view that this expression comprises all non-Muslims: but this view obviously conflicts with 60:8-9 where the believers are expressly allowed to form friendships with such of the non-believers as are not hostile to them and to their faith. Morever, the sequence makes it clear that by ‘those who are not of your kind’ are meant only for people whose enmity to Islam and its followers has become apparent from their behavior and their utterances. The rendering adopted by me, “people who are not of your kind” implies that their outlook on life is so fundamentally opposed to that of Muslims that genuine friendship is entirely out of question.”

very interesting as verses 60:8-9 does not conflict with what “some of the comentators incline to” at all. a more accurate translation of the verse above would aid in showing this… the word translated as bosom-friends is the word “bitaanah” which literally means inside. a bitaanah is the inside lining for clothing. it also can mean a suite, a cortege or an entourage. here it refers to taking a certain people as close allies or “insiders”. the verse reads, “o those who believed, do not take other than yourselves (i.e., the disbelievers) as insiders. they do not fail to try to confuse you and they desire what causes you distress. the hatred has appeared from their mouths and what their chests conceal is greater. surely We have clarified the verses for you if you would understand.”

the explanations of this verse state that those who the verse is referring to are those from the jews, the christians and the hypocrites (munaafiqeen).

verses 60:8-9 state, “Allah does not prohibit you from being good and just to those who do not fight you regarding the religion and driven you out of your homes. indeed, Allah loves those who are just. however, Allah prohibits you from entrusting those who fought you regarding the religion and drove you from your homes and supported your expulsion. and whoever entrusts them, then they are the oppressors.”

being good and treating the disbelievers justly and fairly does not necessitate taking them as close confidants and allies, which is what “entrusting them” in these verses means. translating the word “walee” in arabic as “friend” in english is inaccurate and not correct, as it means a lot more than just “friend”. let’s say for argument’s sake that it does mean “friend” in the way most of us understand the word “friend”, for you to treat someone with goodness and fairness, does that person have to be your friend? or can you deal with just about anyone - whether they’re your friend or not - in this manner? if the answer is yes, then there is no way that this verse can conflict with the one your muslim friend or even muhammad asad claims it does.

Allah has explicitly prohibited the muslims from taking the jews and the christians as awliyaa’ (pl. of walee). He says in the Qur’an, “o those who believed, do not take the jews and the christians as close-confidants. they are close-confidants of each other. and whoever from you entrusts them, then indeed, he is from them. indeed, Allah does not guide the oppressive people.” (5:51).

more to come when i have some more time…

 

[exoflare]

r.gonzales:

huh?

hehe never mind, thought you were someone else.

 

[JP2ImissU]

PMV:

Yes, it makes sense because it could go either way. We can pray individually to each person, or to the three at the same time. Think of it like a clover; one clover has three leaves (this is the example B]St. Peter

uses). It is humble to love and serve God without fully grasping the concept of Him. I believe you mean St. Patrick. :irish1: :irish2:

 

[Eetaq]

Sorry if this has been covered, I didnt read the forum i just figured I’d answer the question.

We are not allowed to guess who will and who will not go to heaven. That is up to Allah.

I can provide many different things that would allow you into heaven, however in the end if your good deeds are more than your bad ones than you will get into heaven. Period.