What does it look like to be gay – and a practicing Catholic?

[Kurisu35712]

See Post #49

I really wish we could get past the whole label debate on both sides and actually address living out vocations.

Same. It always ends up going the same way as every other discussion. Not even about this. About anything really. Instead of just discussing the issue, everyone gets hung up on making sure every definition is completely clarified (and I’m not immune myself), or gets distracted by pet causes or side issues or what have you.

Regardless whether you’re gay and use the word gay, gay and use SSA, straight and use gay, bisexual and use… anything else… the fact still remains that, on a personal and interpersonal level, this vocation isn’t an easy one. Like literally every other vocation, this has its challenges, and here we are, again getting distracted by whether it’s offensive to call people gay versus SSA or vice versa. People are going to be offended regardless of what word you use. It’s a very personal issue with a lot of subtle nuances. Part of the difficulty in this vocation is the fact that, most of the time, people generalize everyone’s experiences and completely lose those nuances.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I would agree with you. I had never seen SSA before coming to this site.

Isn’t it interesting the fascination people here have with homosexuality? And for the most part, very few gay or lesbians are a part of the conversation. It always seems to be about ‘them.’ Very little conversation WITH ‘them.’

I don’t recall the Church discussing the morality of pornography with the men who struggle with lust either. How would that impact the right and wrong of something?

There are Catholics struggling with all manner of sins far beyond just that of same sex attraction. The Church is compassionate and loving towards all of us, but doesn’t need (name removed by moderator)ut from every one of us either.

 

[at9009]

I don’t recall the Church discussing the morality of pornography with the men who struggle with lust either. How would that impact the right and wrong of something?

There are Catholics struggling with all manner of sins far beyond just that of same sex attraction. The Church is compassionate and loving towards all of us, but doesn’t need (name removed by moderator)ut from every one of us either.

This is a little condescending and kind of uncharitable. IF you actually read our posts, NONE of us are questioning and discussing the morality of same sex sexual acts. We all accept the Church’s teaching on it. What is extremely frustrating is the absolute lack of support for us and of the very minor amount of support we get, the lack of (name removed by moderator)ut in what works and helps us stay true to our path.

Using your example, if you were going to provide ministry support to people who struggle with pornography or lust issues, don’t you think bringing them in the discussion would help? Discussing what issues they have, what has helps carry this cross, what hurts the cross. Any good ministry takes into account its intended group of people and helps/alters their outreach if its not working. We are not talking about morality issues but rather how to actually support people.

But with SSA Christians we don’t do that. Yet a lot of assumptions are made about my upbringing and experiences. From these assumptions, outreach is developed despite the assumptions being wrong in my case (I don’t have a bad relationship with my dad, I wasn’t bad a sports, I’ve never been abused, etc…) Courage, the one outreach group (which is very secretive, hard to find) has close association with NARTH and for many of us that makes Courage not my desired outreach group.

Rarely, does it feel like I’m or any one like me is ever asked how or what makes my cross just a little less of a burden. What I do hear a lot is to basically shut up, suck it up, and go away. I often feel like I get added burdens to my cross not less. But what does that matter. My feelings apparently don’t matter.

The Church is compassionate and loving towards all of us, but doesn’t need (name removed by moderator)ut from every one of us either

Because asking (name removed by moderator)ut on how to best provide pastoral care to a group of people is such a radical idea.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

This is a little condescending and kind of uncharitable. IF you actually read our posts, NONE of us are questioning and discussing the morality of same sex sexual acts. We all accept the Church’s teaching on it. What is extremely frustrating is the absolute lack of support for us and of the very minor amount of support we get, the lack of (name removed by moderator)ut in what works and helps us stay true to our path.

Using your example, if you were going to provide ministry support to people who struggle with pornography or lust issues, don’t you think bringing them in the discussion would help? Discussing what issues they have, what has helps carry this cross, what hurts the cross. Any good ministry takes into account its intended group of people and helps/alters their outreach if its not working. We are not talking about morality issues but rather how to actually support people.

But with SSA Christians we don’t do that. Yet a lot of assumptions are made about my upbringing and experiences. From these assumptions, outreach is developed despite the assumptions being wrong in my case (I don’t have a bad relationship with my dad, I wasn’t bad a sports, I’ve never been abused, etc…) Courage, the one outreach group (which is very secretive, hard to find) has close association with NARTH and for many of us that makes Courage not my desired outreach group.

Rarely, does it feel like I’m or any one like me is ever asked how or what makes my cross just a little less of a burden. What I do hear a lot is to basically shut up, suck it up, and go away. I often feel like I get added burdens to my cross not less. But what does that matter. My feelings apparently don’t matter.

Because asking (name removed by moderator)ut on how to best provide pastoral care to a group of people is such a radical idea.

Thank you, at9009. You wrote of this beautifully.

May I add one more point, please? People on this forum write of homosexuality a bit obsessively. I have read posts that address everything from how to figure out if gays and lesbians should leave the communion line to trying to explain to the rest of us how they have sex. Given that most posters appear NOT to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered, it seems very odd to me. What’s this about?

 

[bobballen_18]

Courage, the one outreach group (which is very secretive, hard to find) has close association with NARTH and for many of us that makes Courage not my desired outreach group.

Oh come now. Courage is “secretive, hard to find”? This is news to me. It’s only as hard to find as you make it…lol. Courage’s website lists the locations of all chapters and lists contact numbers for all locations. Have you even tried to search for and to contact your closest Courage chapter?

OK, and so are you refusing to take advantage of Courage because they “have a close association with NARTH”? I can understand if you don’t think they have the emphasis you want - like I said (I think earlier in this thread), I think it is certainly possible that different people with SSA need different emphases in their personal journeys - but Courage is not bad for anyone because of some close association with NARTH. That’s the first time I’ve heard that one - the only thing I’ve heard is that it seems to be more geared towards those who have been active in the “gay lifestyle”. What is that “close association with NARTH” anyway, and why would such an association be bad?

I have only been to two Courage meetings thus far, so admittedly I can’t say much yet. And sure, my experience will be based on the “style” of the two chapters in my city and other cities might be different. But the first two meetings have not given me any impression that they are closely associated with any group of psychologists, and even if they are, their fidelity to service to those with SSA and to the Church’s teachings is completely obvious to me. What, are you worried that they’re going to start asking you how bad your relationship with you father was/is?

If you haven’t actually gone and experienced it yet, then I would highly recommend you actually try it first. I don’t know if Courage is associated with NARTH or not, but NARTH is not evil - my opinion would be that they’re better than 99% of other “gay outreach” groups/associations in the world today. Do I think they’re 100% correct on everything? No. But does that make me reject Courage because of some “close association”? No.

I’m sorry if you have gone to Courage and have found it to be some sort of “reparative therapy” or whatnot. Though I don’t personally have a problem with reparative therapy per se (though I do have a bit of a problem with some of the ideas behind it), I do not think that is what Courage represents and it should not be the goal of the meetings. But if you haven’t gone, then I really don’t see a reason to not go, to not even give it a chance. I know we’re all different but I recently made this decision - for a long time I have for some reason or other convinced myself that Courage wasn’t for me, and to some extent, after 2 meetings, there is a sense in which I still feel that it isn’t. But I realize I need to give it some time. I told myself I’d attend through March or maybe even April and reevaluate at that point (unless it is obvious early on that it is not good for me).

Sorry if I’m sounding a little annoyed or if I’m making assumptions about you…I guess I’m more or less reflecting my frustration based on my own experience, and my own experience has been dominated by my just sitting around doing nothing until recently, and except for seeing a counselor the past 4 1/2 months, it has still been dominated by doing nothing. I guess I’m frustrated at myself for not even giving Courage a shot earlier, so that is why I am “defending” it or “advocating” for it right now. Reading articles on the Internet is great and all, I’ve done plenty of that. Lol. But Courage is an opportunity to actually meet some people in your own boat and I think even if the emphasis is not exactly what one needs, it can still be a spiritual benefit. Maybe you’re finding other ways to interact with people, both in your situation and not - if so, that’s great - but I hope you’re not just intending on going through it alone until the Church comes up with another support group for those with SSA.

But of course that is just my opinion.

 

[clem456]

Thank you, at9009. You wrote of this beautifully.

May I add one more point, please? People on this forum write of homosexuality a bit obsessively. I have read posts that address everything from how to figure out if gays and lesbians should leave the communion line to trying to explain to the rest of us how they have sex. Given that most posters appear NOT to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered, it seems very odd to me. What’s this about?

Yea, you’re a poster on this thread.
What’s it about, all this talk?

What about your unsubstantiated assertion on another thread that 50% of priests in your diocese “are gay”.

Yea, you raise a good question here.

What’s it all about, all this obsessive talk?
What do you say?

 

[at9009]

Oh come now. Courage is “secretive, hard to find”? This is news to me. It’s only as hard to find as you make it…lol. Courage’s website lists the locations of all chapters and lists contact numbers for all locations. Have you even tried to search for and to contact your closest Courage chapter?

For me it was when the closest group is over an hour drive that meets at most once a month. I understand its desire for anonymity but to actually get to a meeting was a pretty intensive process. I did at one point join their online support forum, but it’s not really helpful for me. EDIT: I add that from those I have talked to about it, chapters can vary somewhat with some being helpful and some not so much which is probably true with any type of outreach.

OK, and so are you refusing to take advantage of Courage because they “have a close association with NARTH”? I can understand if you don’t think they have the emphasis you want - like I said (I think earlier in this thread), I think it is certainly possible that different people with SSA need different emphases in their personal journeys - but Courage is not bad for anyone because of some close association with NARTH. That’s the first time I’ve heard that one - the only thing I’ve heard is that it seems to be more geared towards those who have been active in the “gay lifestyle”. What is that “close association with NARTH” anyway, and why would such an association be bad?

I have only been to two Courage meetings thus far, so admittedly I can’t say much yet. And sure, my experience will be based on the “style” of the two chapters in my city and other cities might be different. But the first two meetings have not given me any impression that they are closely associated with any group of psychologists, and even if they are, their fidelity to service to those with SSA and to the Church’s teachings is completely obvious to me. What, are you worried that they’re going to start asking you how bad your relationship with you father was/is?

If you haven’t actually gone and experienced it yet, then I would highly recommend you actually try it first. I don’t know if Courage is associated with NARTH or not, but NARTH is not evil - my opinion would be that they’re better than 99% of other “gay outreach” groups/associations in the world today. Do I think they’re 100% correct on everything? No. But does that make me reject Courage because of some “close association”? No.

I’m sorry if you have gone to Courage and have found it to be some sort of “reparative therapy” or whatnot. Though I don’t personally have a problem with reparative therapy per se (though I do have a bit of a problem with some of the ideas behind it), I do not think that is what Courage represents and it should not be the goal of the meetings. But if you haven’t gone, then I really don’t see a reason to not go, to not even give it a chance. I know we’re all different but I recently made this decision - for a long time I have for some reason or other convinced myself that Courage wasn’t for me, and to some extent, after 2 meetings, there is a sense in which I still feel that it isn’t. But I realize I need to give it some time. I told myself I’d attend through March or maybe even April and reevaluate at that point (unless it is obvious early on that it is not good for me).
.

I understand and respect your opinion. NARTH is kind of personal for me and I will admit it to being kind of a personal bias on my part. Its association wouldn’t be enough to stop me from going to Courage, but it did make me hesitant. I hope this article helps provide my perspective a little. I don’t necessarily agree with all of the article but hope it helps somewhat:

spiritualfriendship.org/2015/09/20/spiritual-friendship-and-courage-on-the-need-for-variety-in-ministry/

Sorry if I’m sounding a little annoyed or if I’m making assumptions about you…I guess I’m more or less reflecting my frustration based on my own experience, and my own experience has been dominated by my just sitting around doing nothing until recently, and except for seeing a counselor the past 4 1/2 months, it has still been dominated by doing nothing. I guess I’m frustrated at myself for not even giving Courage a shot earlier, so that is why I am “defending” it or “advocating” for it right now. Reading articles on the Internet is great and all, I’ve done plenty of that. Lol. But Courage is an opportunity to actually meet some people in your own boat and I think even if the emphasis is not exactly what one needs, it can still be a spiritual benefit. Maybe you’re finding other ways to interact with people, both in your situation and not - if so, that’s great - but I hope you’re not just intending on going through it alone until the Church comes up with another support group for those with SSA.

But of course that is just my opinion.

No offense taken, I honestly appreciate your perspective and your experiences. A little pushback is never a bad thing and learning more about your experiences is great too. . I guess its just that courage didn’t work for me. It was the mentality that it was pushing me to develop which I felt was hurting my faith and spiritual development. Not entirely their fault, but it’s approach just didn’t work for me. I am glad that they are helping you. Praise God for that, and I hope they are able to provide you the support and care you desire in order to reach your vocation.

Thanks for your concern too, I have found a support group of celibate SSA/gay Christians. Its approach as worked for me so far, and I’m actually less worried about my future then before. So much so, that I’m starting to get comfortable with sharing my story which I understand is different than yours and that’s cool.

 

[at9009]

Yea, you’re a poster on this thread.
What’s it about, all this talk?

What about your unsubstantiated assertion on another thread that 50% of priests in your diocese “are gay”.

Yea, you raise a good question here.

What’s it all about, all this obsessive talk?
What do you say?

Um. Sorry for being unclear, but I’m not quite entirely sure what you mean? I really don’t follow all the threads so I did not hear that particular assertion. I don’t agree with that statement at all. Additionally I don’t understand the context of what they are trying to say or mean. So I apologize, could you possibly give me some kind of reference point in that thread?

I also don’t know what you mean by obsessive talk? What specifically are you referring to? Is it about labels? The topic of homosexuality in general? Talk in general?

Plus, I should reiterate this is just my feelings and opinion. They are not the only thing one in my case can feel. Just look at bobballen_18 and me. We both have this SSA and and both agree with the Church’s teaching on morality, so we have way more in common than not. I think we do have different approaches to this problem and different things that work for us. That is not a bad thing but a reflection of how individuals differ. So, I am and hope clearly expressing that I do not represent all SSA individuals but just me and my experiences.

 

[clem456]

Um. Sorry for being unclear, but I’m not quite entirely sure what you mean? I really don’t follow all the threads so I did not hear that particular assertion. I don’t agree with that statement at all. Additionally I don’t understand the context of what they are trying to say or mean. So I apologize, could you possibly give me some kind of reference point in that thread?

I also don’t know what you mean by obsessive talk? What specifically are you referring to? Is it about labels? The topic of homosexuality in general? Talk in general?

Plus, I should reiterate this is just my feelings and opinion. They are not the only thing one in my case can feel. Just look at bobballen_18 and me. We both have this SSA and and both agree with the Church’s teaching on morality, so we have way more in common than not. I think we do have different approaches to this problem and different things that work for us. That is not a bad thing but a reflection of how individuals differ. So, I am and hope clearly expressing that I do not represent all SSA individuals but just me and my experiences.

Just to be clear, I was responding to ComplineSanFran. I think you though I was responding to you?

I appreciate your perspective.

 

[at9009]

Just to be clear, I was responding to ComplineSanFran. I think you though I was responding to you?

I appreciate your perspective.

My bad. Online forums are hard to follow sometimes.
Thanks too.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

What about your unsubstantiated assertion on another thread that 50% of priests in your diocese “are gay”.

That isn’t quite what I stated. I was asked to guess how many clergy friends and colleagues are gay. I said that of those in my circle - which included primarily the California area, mostly Anglo, those in Orders included, and excluding ‘imported’ ethnic priests - my guess was about 50%.

That does NOT mean 50% of all priests in my diocese.

 

[clem456]

That isn’t quite what I stated. I was asked to guess how many clergy friends and colleagues are gay. I said that of those in my circle - which included primarily the California area, mostly Anglo, those in Orders included, and excluding ‘imported’ ethnic priests - my guess was about 50%.

That does NOT mean 50% of all priests in my diocese.

You said:

One thing that I ponder, however, regarding the RCC: will laicized priests who left to get married be allowed back in? That might help balance the number of heterosexual priests with the number of homosexual priests already serving. I have heard that the numbers are up to 50% who are gay. My own experience (albeit in California), bears that out.

It will be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

You wondered why people obsess about homosexuality a couple of posts ago.
Can you answer your own question?

Why did you throw out an unsubstantiated and inflammatory figure regarding homosexual priests?
Is that what you mean by obsessing?

Or is obsessing only when people *respond to *this kind of thing. Maybe all your posts should go un-challenged?
Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe obsessing is only what other people do.

 

[edwest2]

Thank you, at9009. You wrote of this beautifully.

May I add one more point, please? People on this forum write of homosexuality a bit obsessively. I have read posts that address everything from how to figure out if gays and lesbians should leave the communion line to trying to explain to the rest of us how they have sex. Given that most posters appear NOT to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered, it seems very odd to me. What’s this about?

It’s simple. LGBT persons have decided to give up their privacy and what they do in private. The LGBT publication, the Advocate, post photos of smiling people with captions like: "First bisexual woman to be given high office [in this or that place]. So what? If I saw her, without seeing the photo, could I tell she was bisexual? Of course not.

What are “gay pride” parades for? To show scantily clad men wearing women’s high heels? What about suing bakeries for not making a gay wedding cake? What’s that about? And what about “gender identity”? If a boy thinks he’s a girl, a court mandate allows him to use the girls’ restroom. How about a kids’ story book called King and King that shows little kids that gay men can be married? All that stuff did not happen in an alternative universe, it happened here.

What happened to “You let us live our lives the way we want and you live yours the way you want?” Huh? What happened? A campaign to make Gay sex OK, and enshrined into law. What? Nothing was caused by anybody? It just happened by itself? School libraries suddenly got copies of King and King from nobody?

This whole “gay marriage” thing is a social engineering project. It’s not right. If you don’t want to be forced to do something then don’t force others who disagree.

amazon.com/Beyond-Diversity-Day-Curriculum-Sexualities/dp/074252034X

Stop the propaganda, please.

For those who have SSA and are practicing Catholics, may God strengthen you and guide you. But you are also buried under what gay activists are doing. I could care less if half my neighbors were LGBT but keep it out of my face, please. Especially on what used to be “the news” and gay husbands showing up on TV shows as if it means nothing. Or is to be accepted as normative. That’s the issue.

Ed

 

[cjforJesus]

It’s simple. LGBT persons have decided to give up their privacy and what they do in private. The LGBT publication, the Advocate, post photos of smiling people with captions like: "First bisexual woman to be given high office [in this or that place]. So what? If I saw her, without seeing the photo, could I tell she was bisexual? Of course not.

What are “gay pride” parades for? To show scantily clad men wearing women’s high heels? What about suing bakeries for not making a gay wedding cake? What’s that about? And what about “gender identity”? If a boy thinks he’s a girl, a court mandate allows him to use the girls’ restroom. How about a kids’ story book called King and King that shows little kids that gay men can be married? All that stuff did not happen in an alternative universe, it happened here.

What happened to “You let us live our lives the way we want and you live yours the way you want?” Huh? What happened? A campaign to make Gay sex OK, and enshrined into law. What? Nothing was caused by anybody? It just happened by itself? School libraries suddenly got copies of King and King from nobody?

This whole “gay marriage” thing is a social engineering project. It’s not right. If you don’t want to be forced to do something then don’t force others who disagree.

amazon.com/Beyond-Diversity-Day-Curriculum-Sexualities/dp/074252034X

Stop the propaganda, please.

For those who have SSA and are practicing Catholics, may God strengthen you and guide you. But you are also buried under what gay activists are doing. I could care less if half my neighbors were LGBT but keep it out of my face, please. Especially on what used to be “the news” and gay husbands showing up on TV shows as if it means nothing. Or is to be accepted as normative. That’s the issue.

Ed

Thank you for this post,Ed.
I believe the issue is not about tolerance but social engineering It is quite obvious.

I have known people who identify as gay much of my adult life. My mother was approached by a lesbian while she was in the navy during WW2. It is nothing new just the attitude that it should be celebrated and the acts associated with it normalized.

I cannot and will never accept men masturbating with other men.Women masturbating with other women or either one having genital contact with children or animals. It is all forbidden and part of pagan practice that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for. There was not ONE righteous person there. They all practiced depravity and desiring strange flesh…

 

[clem456]

Thank you for this post,Ed.
I believe the issue is not about tolerance but social engineering It is quite obvious.

I have known people who identify as gay much of my adult life. My mother was approached by a lesbian while she was in the navy during WW2. It is nothing new just the attitude that it should be celebrated and the acts associated with it normalized.

I cannot and will never accept men masturbating with other men.Women masturbating with other women or either one having genital contact with children or animals. It is all forbidden and part of pagan practice that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for. There was not ONE righteous person there. They all practiced depravity and desiring strange flesh…

To be fair, we all have sins that deserve death by frying pan, not just those who engage in homosexual acts. All of us have fallen short.
And no, I am not being indifferent to various types of things. We each have our unique problems.

The thing is, not all issues are pushed to the surface in the same obsessive way. Masturbation is not thrown in people’s faces all day long and on tv etc…
“hey, people who masturbate ought to be able to marry themselves”
“I want 2 wives”
“I want to marry my sister”
“I have a right to carry and raise your embryo”

These things are not thrown in our faces by an obsessive agenda (yet…it’s only a matter of time until insanity runs it’s course and we will wish we had stuck with common sense).

 

[edwest2]

Thank you for this post,Ed.
I believe the issue is not about tolerance but social engineering It is quite obvious.

I have known people who identify as gay much of my adult life. My mother was approached by a lesbian while she was in the navy during WW2. It is nothing new just the attitude that it should be celebrated and the acts associated with it normalized.

I cannot and will never accept men masturbating with other men.Women masturbating with other women or either one having genital contact with children or animals. It is all forbidden and part of pagan practice that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for. There was not ONE righteous person there. They all practiced depravity and desiring strange flesh…

You’re welcome. Yes, “normalized” is the goal. To make being gay as unexceptional as being left-handed, to partially quote an article I read. And celebrated. Definitely. To show how a character on TV was so happy for two gay married men. That were never there in decades and decades of TV. Just drop them in now as if no one is paying attention to the “social engineering.”

I recently saw a video showing a young lady at a gay pride parade. She told the Christian speaker that she was a Wiccan and a Pagan. OK. The point is that paganism is being promoted.

Ed

 

[Thorolfr]

It’s simple. LGBT persons have decided to give up their privacy and what they do in private. The LGBT publication, the Advocate, post photos of smiling people with captions like: "First bisexual woman to be given high office [in this or that place]. So what? If I saw her, without seeing the photo, could I tell she was bisexual? Of course not.

What are “gay pride” parades for? To show scantily clad men wearing women’s high heels? What about suing bakeries for not making a gay wedding cake? What’s that about? And what about “gender identity”? If a boy thinks he’s a girl, a court mandate allows him to use the girls’ restroom. How about a kids’ story book called King and King that shows little kids that gay men can be married? All that stuff did not happen in an alternative universe, it happened here.

What happened to “You let us live our lives the way we want and you live yours the way you want?” Huh? What happened? A campaign to make Gay sex OK, and enshrined into law. What? Nothing was caused by anybody? It just happened by itself? School libraries suddenly got copies of King and King from nobody?

This whole “gay marriage” thing is a social engineering project. It’s not right. If you don’t want to be forced to do something then don’t force others who disagree.

amazon.com/Beyond-Diversity-Day-Curriculum-Sexualities/dp/074252034X

Stop the propaganda, please.

For those who have SSA and are practicing Catholics, may God strengthen you and guide you. But you are also buried under what gay activists are doing. I could care less if half my neighbors were LGBT but keep it out of my face, please. Especially on what used to be “the news” and gay husbands showing up on TV shows as if it means nothing. Or is to be accepted as normative. That’s the issue.

Ed

You ask why gay people want to let others know they’re gay or why they have gay pride parades as if you can’t figure it out. They do it because they want to let people know that they’re not ashamed of themselves anymore as they were previously made to feel for years. It’s also an opportunity for LGBT people to meet other like minded and sympathetic individuals who understand their lives and their ordeals and to have a good time and celebrate together.

And LGBT people have parades for the same reason that Irish people have St. Patrick’s Day parades or the local Greek community where I live has a Greek festival every year, or Italians have a Columbus Day parade, etc. Why does any group of people have to go around letting others know that they’re Irish or Greek or Italian, or Mexican or Republican, or Democrat, etc.?

 

[edwest2]

You ask why gay people want to let others know they’re gay or why they have gay pride parades as if you can’t figure it out. They do it because they want to let people know that they’re not ashamed of themselves anymore as they were previously made to feel for years. It’s also an opportunity for LGBT people to meet other like minded and sympathetic individuals who understand their lives and their ordeals and to have a good time and celebrate together.

And LGBT people have parades for the same reason that Irish people have St. Patrick’s Day parades or the local Greek community where I live has a Greek festival every year, or Italians have a Columbus Day parade, etc. Why does any group of people have to go around letting others know that they’re Irish or Greek or Italian, or Mexican or Republican, or Democrat, etc.?

You do not address my other points. I don’t recommend this but have you seen any video of gay pride parades? An Irish, Greek, Italian or Mexican parade has nothing to do with sex or promoting sexual behavior. It’s about pride in a particular cultural identity.

Ed

 

[Suudy]

You ask why gay people want to let others know they’re gay or why they have gay pride parades as if you can’t figure it out. They do it because they want to let people know that they’re not ashamed of themselves anymore as they were previously made to feel for years.

Hmm… I’m trying to recall the last Alcoholic Pride Parade or Meth Addiction Festival that occurred. When’s the last time somebody expressed pride in dangerous, harmful, and immoral behavior?

It’s also an opportunity for LGBT people to meet other like minded and sympathetic individuals who understand their lives and their ordeals and to have a good time and celebrate together.

To celebrate what? Their sexual proclivities?

And LGBT people have parades for the same reason that Irish people have St. Patrick’s Day parades or the local Greek community where I live has a Greek festival every year, or Italians have a Columbus Day parade, etc. Why does any group of people have to go around letting others know that they’re Irish or Greek or Italian, or Mexican or Republican, or Democrat, etc.?

Peter Kreeft has an excellent talk on homosexuality that addresses this. In his QA session (listen to the talk here, at about 31:30). He asks why homosexuals are the only sinners that identify with their sin; alcoholics do not celebrate their alcoholism, addicts don’t celebrate their addictions, cowards don’t celebrate their cowardice, etc. When there’s something worthy of pride and celebration, such as cultural and historical heritage, they should be celebrated. But why do we celebrate sinful behavior in homosexuality?

 

[Thorolfr]

Hmm… I’m trying to recall the last Alcoholic Pride Parade or Meth Addiction Festival that occurred. When’s the last time somebody expressed pride in dangerous, harmful, and immoral behavior?

To celebrate what? Their sexual proclivities?

Peter Kreeft has an excellent talk on homosexuality that addresses this. In his QA session (listen to the talk here, at about 31:30). He asks why homosexuals are the only sinners that identify with their sin; alcoholics do not celebrate their alcoholism, addicts don’t celebrate their addictions, cowards don’t celebrate their cowardice, etc. When there’s something worthy of pride and celebration, such as cultural and historical heritage, they should be celebrated. But why do we celebrate sinful behavior in homosexuality?

Obviously, most LGBT people no longer consider their behavior sinful, harmful or immoral or anything to be ashamed of.