What does it mean to be submissive?

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Polluted said:
I’m a bit more teaditional. Sadly the modern 21st century women and those who lead to her existance has created allot of problems. Women want to be dominate and loud in today’s world with everyone on the left cheering them on. Sadly at the same time they are bound to their natural state. Desiring a strong men who will…at the end of the day “dominate” them. At least that’s by design, but sadly this broken state has caused many problems and is disordered…much like homosexuality.

This is why even the loudest and progressive of women seek to be dominated in the bedroom. It’s simply a strong indicator of what I am talking about here. It’s a huge paradox, but has created nothing positive. You see, the women of today, are the same who have shamed, and discouraged any masculine qualities from our young folks. All in the name of being “equal”. This looks good on paper, but men never said women were not equal, just different than men. Sadly thou feminism pulled the trigger and now women are stuck with an identity crises and a lack of real men.

Where have all the men gone? Seems to be a common cry from today’s females. And it’s true, many full grown strong men are anything BUT men simply because they have been conditioned not to be masculine in any shape or form. This leads girls feeling unsatisfied, confused, and restless as their God given desire dominates their personality…to find a man who will rule them.

It’s a shame, and for those who actually have a masculine husband consider yourselves lucky. 👍 Being submissive isn’t about getting back into the kitchen :rolleyes: Its about respecting your man’s rule as head of the pack and letting him lead! Sadly though many men are unfit to even do that! So on some level I feel sorry for females because even if they wanted to submit and trust their man they cant! Chances are many of their husbands have no idea how to, or are unfit to do so. Timidness, pornogrophy, drug and alcohol abuse, more video games than a 12 yr old school boy, lack of gumption are rampant. Really sad to watch.
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If your masculinity is dependant on how women behave, to the extreme extent that women being more “loud” turns you into a weak, pathetic man-child that you described in your final paragraph, then how masculine were you really to start with?

Note: “you” in the general sense, not you as in you polluted.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
If your masculinity is dependant on how women behave, to the extreme extent that women being more “loud” turns you into a weak, pathetic man-child that you described in your final paragraph, then how masculine were you really to start with?

Note: “you” in the general sense, not you as in you polluted.
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Masculinity and femininity are a dance, they inform, complement and feed off each other. If the women behave poorly, yes, that will lead to poor behavior from the men. And vice versa.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
If your masculinity is dependant on how women behave, to the extreme extent that women being more “loud” turns you into a weak, pathetic man-child that you described in your final paragraph, then how masculine were you really to start with?
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Yes.

If the guys curl up in a ball when faced with a loud woman, Lord knows how they’ll deal with an actually violent bad guy, the type of person that we keep being told we women folk are being protected from.
 
ThePCWife said:
Masculinity and femininity are a dance, they inform, complement and feed off each other. If the women behave poorly, yes, that will lead to poor behavior from the men. And vice versa.
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If I wouldn’t tolerate “she was mean to me first!” as an excuse from a kid for bad behavior, why should I tolerate it from an adult? It might mitigate things a little that the kid was provoked by baby sis pulling his hair, and it’s good to know that I’d need to, depending on the age/development of baby sis, need to talk to her or punish her for hair-pulling, but it doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to smash her toys in retribution.
 
UbiCaritas said:
If I wouldn’t tolerate “she was mean to me first!” as an excuse from a kid for bad behavior, why should I tolerate it from an adult? It might mitigate things a little that the kid was provoked by baby sis pulling his hair, and it’s good to know that I’d need to, depending on the age/development of baby sis, need to talk to her or punish her for hair-pulling, but it doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to smash her toys in retribution.
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Right. As I recall, God did not buy the “but she told me to!” excuse from Adam.

(Nor did he buy the “but he told me to!” from Eve.)

As we see in lots of threads here on CAF, not much gets fixed when one spouse sits and waits for the other to shape up.
 
UbiCaritas said:
If I wouldn’t tolerate “she was mean to me first!” as an excuse from a kid for bad behavior, why should I tolerate it from an adult? It might mitigate things a little that the kid was provoked by baby sis pulling his hair, and it’s good to know that I’d need to, depending on the age/development of baby sis, need to talk to her or punish her for hair-pulling, but it doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to smash her toys in retribution.
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RIGHT! If I wouldn’t tolerate from a child, and I wouldn’t tolerate it from an adult, then imagine how much patience I have for that kind of attitude when it comes from adults who fancy themselves as natural leaders by birth.:rolleyes:

Here’s the thing, I am one of those people who happens to believe that a family functions best when the man leads. I grew up in a liberal, secular, family that encouraged women (specifically me) to go as far as they could in life. My stepfather was definitely the leader of the family, my adult brother is very much the head of his family, and my husband very much leads our family. Other than my Protestant mom, we are all godless heathens. But I grew up in a very old school, traditional, Midwestern community where “girls were girls and men were men”.

I was very much encouraged to find a strong man who could make sound choices, provide, protect, and love. I found that. But I did not find a man child and submit until he decided to grow up. I found a man who was working hard in graduate school, had lots of opportunities coming his way, and who had real goals and a desire to support a family. THAT is the kind of man who should be leading.

I really don’t buy the argument that women need to hold themselves back so that men can step up. If we are to look at masculinity as something to respect and honor for its strength, then it can’t be patronized. Holding yourself back to keep someone ahead of you just keeps you both from being your best.

Masculinity and femininity are a dance, for sure. Although we started out with an ‘egalitarian’ system, we gradually shifted to him taking charge, and after a few long discussions, both agreed this was best in the long term and we kind of formally agreed this was the nature of our marriage and family. I found that the egalitarian system took a lot of the sexual charge and affection out of our marriage, because it cuts the music and ends the dance. But the manliest men I know are married to equally strong, smart, and accomplished women - but yet, there’s no question who the leader and authority is in their marriages. This isn’t just true of the rural families I grew up in, it’s true in my current circle of educated urban professionals. The guys who can make good decisions, stand by them, stand up for themselves and their families, take responsibility, and work hard to provide are not threatened by “loud”, or accomplished, or rude, or successful, or wealthy, or any woman, really. Women, even poorly behaved ones, take nothing from their masculinity. They’re secure in who they are, that comes through, and that puts others at ease and makes it easy to follow their lead.

“Men aren’t manly or aren’t respected as leaders because women are/do XYZ” is not something that I would ever want to hear come out of the mouth of a man that I was to follow. It doesn’t show an ability to take responsibility, to make changes you see as necessary, or to work to improve yourself. In short, a man who says that is not a man who is ready to head a family.
 
Gifted leaders are rare. Too often we are saddled not with leaders but micromanagers.

When we think of leaders we think of micromanagers not true leaders. I am not married so the example I have of leadership is the one I get from the business world. True leaders encourage the full utilization of the gifts of the team members he manages. A micromanager comes from the position that the subordinates cannot be trusted.

Leadership has very little to do with domination. Polluted’s post made me think of marriage as an S&M game. This is a far cry from the marriage that the Church envisions.
 
Someone earlier quoted the Bible, which is where the whole “submit” thing comes from, and the whole reason we have these conversations.

Ephesians very clearly says “submit to one another.” Husbands submit to wives and wives to husbands. When the next sentence (5:22) says “wives to husbands,” very clearly Paul is working form a general command (“spouses submit to eachother”) to a specific problem he sees in the community he’s addressing (“wives submit to husbands”); also, his larger metaphor that he’s primarily concerned with here works better if he focuses on women’s submission rather than men’s - but Paul’s pretty clear that it would be (at least theoretically) equally accurate to tell husbands to submit to their wives more.

Later, when we see an uncontextualized similar command in Colosians, we have to remember that Colosians is probably in large part a summary of Ephesians. So Colosians cannot be understood without Ephesians.

Anyway, there is no reason for women to be MORE submissive to their husbands than their husbands are to them, Biblically. And since your language implies that is what you were concerned about, well then, I declare the thread over, and I, the great answerer of thread questions! :cool:
 
Why on Earth do you think you should be submissive?

Many women are emerging as effective leaders and I think that is great. If more women ran countries, we might have less wars. At least if they were pro-life. If you are drawn to to being in charge, I encourage you to read and develop your skills.

Women are often more successful entrepreneurs, and people who know this put them in charge of their business / company.

Personally, I don’t like to be in charge and only do it when I have to. Thus, anything my wife wants to organize, she is welcome to do it. Over the years, I have found that the more you can let your wife have her way, the happier your marriage will be.

When I do lead, I do it based on what I have read about models like the TPS / LEAN (Toyota Production System), management systems in highly innovative companies like 3 M, and the models that high hazard industries use to reduce error.

In all these models, specific feedback infrastructure is in place so that management is highly responsive to (name removed by moderator)ut from the front line. That means, management LISTENS. When the front line is empowered, they invent, innovate, and locate potential hazards.

In my job, if the person who sweeps the floor has a concern, I stop, listen, and respond. For a while I was in charge of improving our high technology equipment so I was frequently demoing new devices on mannikins. When the people who stock these items were curious, I not only explained the device to them but encouraged them to try to use it on the mannikin as if they were practitioners, not just aids who manage supply. When we need something fast, these people run, and they save lives as much as anyone else.

If a subordinate has a different idea from mine, I change direction at least 75% of the time, because I want people to speak up.

I think the definition of a leader is someone who brings out the best in other people. The person who thinks leading is about getting your way is more likely a jerk, or at least someone who doesn’t read.

So if a woman wants to take charge, I am happy to follow.

Go for it.
 
Being submissive is pretty simple. It’s about accepting the Divine Hierarchy. Your husband has people to answer to, and so do you (your list simply includes your husband while his doesn’t include you). And if you are husbandless or wifeless, you still have people to answer to.

We all do, ultimately.
 
Submission comes from the latin “sub” meaning “under” and “mission” meaning “mission”

You and him are under the same mission.

To become saints.

Your mission, should you decide to accept it… 🙂
 
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