What does it mean to be "the Son of God?"

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adrift said:
Your question is interesting. After doing some research, I find that the answer is inconclusive. There are those who say it was an insertion. There are those who provide evidence that it was not. So you question depends on which expert you want to believe. I find it doesn’t matter because to me it means the same. I know you see it differently.
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Is it a sin to remove a verse from Bible?
 
dessert said:
The water and blood flowing from Jesus side is what washed the stain of sin of man away, This is witnessed the BIBLE SAYSJesus turned away the fourth cup of wine at the passover but partook of the fourth cup of vinegar at the cross. He said he would not drink wine till his body was glorified with the Father. And when He would be one again with the Father He would send the Holy Spirit of truth.

Kalfan is trying to seperate everything in order to confuse and make it seem more complicated.

Just like at the first tree but just say no to the deceiver.

Dessert
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Its always better to runaway from question when we are in trouble.
 
Khalfan said:
this is a bit confusing. How did God preserve his message when the books were corrupt? and why do you think that only Muslims did not mess up but Jews and Christians did? and give me supports from your book please because when i checked, Muhammad never seemed to doubt the validity of the previous scriptures but the interpretations given to him by Jews. after a second thought, please do not reply to this cuz i will open a new thread for it 🙂
You don’t know what Jesus (pbuh) said until he was 30 years. Do you?
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what does this have to do with the fact that Jesus never said that God’s word is corrupt and that the Jews should reject the Torah? on the contrary, he read the scriptures and explained them to others. Did Muhammad do the opposite?
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Khalfan said:
Jer 8:8 "How can you say

, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

It wan’t interpretation that falsified. It was the law that got falsified. As you have said, it is a (one of many other) logical problem, how the verse can remain in the Bible. why did you do by giving ablind eye to what i wrote and repeat the same verse ?

the problem is actually someone believeing that people are so dumb to leave such an accusation 🙂 the problem is when the context is given in comparison to what the smae author wrote and what authors after him wrote, yet you deny and re-write the same sentence. I will repeat again. Do not be stuck on letters. UNDERSTAND what is being written.
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Khalfan said:
the law of circumcision was :

1- Not to gentiles . If a gentile wanted to become a Christian, he should NOT be circumcised because he is not a Jew.

2- Still applies to Jews BUT not as a means of salvation and not to be imposed by Jews on others since it is God who saves, not a piece of skin.

When all became one in Jesus’ name, the laws that used to differentiate between Jews and Gentiles were finished because Jesus reconciled all people .
If they were one, he was supposed to be able to do anything his own, right? How did you say, Jesus (pbuh) was unable to do anything his own, BECAUSE of the oneness of three?
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that’s because he did not mean " i am helpless". I already quoted the whole verse, why don’t you read?

He says EVERYTHING the Father does, He does. Understand what it means? it means He does what God does. The passage shows that Jesus and the Father both do the same thing because they are One. Father and His Word/Wisdom.

cont
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Khalfan said:
Word means Wisdom, not the utterred sound.

but when i say the same about the Bible, you object saying that both are not the same so why are you saying now that Word means Wisdom?🙂
No problem. We will talk on that later. Just tell me, how WISDOM of GOD is a created being?
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No. Wisdom is the source. It is with God as his nature. It is meaning of his existence. If no Wisdom, no God exist.

i see i worded it wrong. yes I agree but I mean the portians FROM wisdom who had no beginning but these Portains manifested in creation in man`s. Im talking about the portains of Wisdom here rather Wisdom herself. u understand?

Gillian
 
adrift said:
Your question is interesting. After doing some research, I find that the answer is inconclusive. There are those who say it was an insertion. There are those who provide evidence that it was not. So you question depends on which expert you want to believe. I find it doesn’t matter because to me it means the same. I know you see it differently.
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No my dear. It is not the same. If it was Water, blood and spirit that was written originally, Trinity concept is a later incertion, in effect, transforming a false into truth. If it was trinity concept that was written originally, why would some one remove it, since all they are supposed to be referring the same ‘original manuscripts’? If they still have to assume the truth, please note that, your faith is relying on some assumptions.
 
dessert said:
**The Lord is the source and preserver of Wisdom, (1)
he created her from eternity, before all things else(4-7)
all his works reflect wisdom (2 , 8) **

You will not win Khalfan

**
" IT IS FINNISHED"**

DESSERT
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What you understand from this?

he created her from eternity
 
inJESUS said:
this is a bit confusing. How did God preserve his message when the books were corrupt? and why do you think that only Muslims did not mess up but Jews and Christians did? and give me supports from your book please because when i checked, Muhammad never seemed to doubt the validity of the previous scriptures but the interpretations given to him by Jews. after a second thought, please do not reply to this cuz i will open a new thread for it 🙂
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God preserved his message, his guidence for mankind by appointing prophets one after another, sometimes two or three together, to different people, in different part of the world. When the books and people got currepted by time, God replaced the true message by another prophet. According to Islam, more than 124000 prophets came until Mohamed (pbuh). They all were preaching the same message of One God, to worship him only and to follow the prophets (by the people to whom the respected prophets came), in their life to have eternal life in heaven. I will talk about the books in your thread.
what does this have to do with the fact that Jesus never said that God’s word is corrupt and that the Jews should reject the Torah? on the contrary, he read the scriptures and explained them to others. Did Muhammad do the opposite?
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You have the Gospels Jesus (pbuh) preached as what the writers were wanted you to know. Can you imagine, such a man like Jesus (pbuh), can have NO any records of his early life at all? Do you think, can any of the gospel writers can be not bothered at all about the life of Jesus (pbuh) (who is supposed to be their God) until he was 30 year!!! There are many things my dear, what you can’t get from the ‘According to Gospels’.
 
Khalfan said:
God preserved his message, his guidence for mankind by appointing prophets one after another, sometimes two or three together, to different people, in different part of the world. When the books and people got currepted by time, God replaced the true message by another prophet. According to Islam, more than 124000 prophets came until Mohamed (pbuh). They all were preaching the same message of One God, to worship him only and to follow the prophets (by the people to whom the respected prophets came), in their life to have eternal life in heaven. I will talk about the books in your thread.

ok i’ll open a thread about this in a while 🙂
You have the Gospels Jesus (pbuh) preached as what the writers were wanted you to know. Can you imagine, such a man like Jesus (pbuh), can have NO any records of his early life at all? Do you think, can any of the gospel writers can be not bothered at all about the life of Jesus (pbuh) (who is supposed to be their God) until he was 30 year!!! There are many things my dear, what you can’t get from the ‘According to Gospels’.
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Khalfan said:
No my dear. It is not the same. If it was Water, blood and spirit that was written originally, Trinity concept is a later incertion, in effect, transforming a false into truth. If it was trinity concept that was written originally, why would some one remove it, since all they are supposed to be referring the same ‘original manuscripts’? If they still have to assume the truth, please note that, your faith is relying on some assumptions.
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As I have already stated, there is different opinions if it was originally written or if it later was an insertion that explained the verse. It can be argued both ways. You can’t and I can’t state it definitively. Your question than become moot. Please don.t call me "my dear: it sounds patronizing and I don’t know you.
 
Khalfan said:
What you understand from this?

he created her from eternity
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Time as we know it had not been existed yet, Had it?

Wisdom; A spiritual gift, which enables one to know the purpose and plan of God; one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit

“God’s truth is his wisdom, which commands the whole created order and governs the world…”

His Wisdom was created in the creation.

There was no time before God created it so God always existed.

How long people lived 800 years - 100 years was insignificant .

God’s wisdom is foolishness to man because man’s wisdom is man’s. My dh is helping me with all this.

IMHO me, Wisdom is called she because yes God was looking for a good woman to place His wisdom as he went on down the line not finding any and them all failing and not believeing that God would do what he said he would do.

It was approaching time for the Blessed Virgin Mary to be born so
Wisdom God was finnally incarnated.

Does this make any sense to you? Dessert
 
🙂 🙂 Well you have probably all gone to bed but my dh and I had a long discussion and he is starting to read St. Augustine :extrahappy: he said if that is I suppose you call him a St. I guess I agree with some of the stuff he says. 👍
I will have sweet dreams tonight. Dessert
 
Gill79 said:
No. Wisdom is the source. It is with God as his nature. It is meaning of his existence. If no Wisdom, no God exist.

i see i worded it wrong. yes I agree but I mean the portians FROM wisdom who had no beginning but these Portains manifested in creation in man`s. Im talking about the portains of Wisdom here rather Wisdom herself. u understand?

Gillian
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Read from St. Augustine’s City of God
He did not believe in linear time.

St. Augustine’s Confessions Book 11
or look at wiki about time in the Time in Philosophy
 
dessert said:
Time as we know it had not been existed yet, Had it?

Wisdom; A spiritual gift, which enables one to know the purpose and plan of God; one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit

“God’s truth is his wisdom, which commands the whole created order and governs the world…”

His Wisdom was created in the creation.

There was no time before God created it so God always existed.

How long people lived 800 years - 100 years was insignificant .

God’s wisdom is foolishness to man because man’s wisdom is man’s. My dh is helping me with all this.

IMHO me, Wisdom is called she because yes God was looking for a good woman to place His wisdom as he went on down the line not finding any and them all failing and not believeing that God would do what he said he would do.

It was approaching time for the Blessed Virgin Mary to be born so
Wisdom God was finnally incarnated.

Does this make any sense to you? Dessert
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Nothing morethan imagination.
 
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