What does it mean to be your brother's keeper?

[oldgraymare2]

You can’t see these friends may have an ego problem if they can’t handle disagreements of opinion or my honesty without ending the friendship altogether. Isn’t being offended more about the ego? Why can’t people take opinions less personally or with a grain of salt? They don’t have to take my advice if they don’t like it. Opinions are just that, opinions. I think is a sign of maturity.

I am just leaping out here to make an assumption here, so bear with me…

They may be ending the friendship with you because of your “delivery of your opinion” if it’s coming across as too harsh.

We’re all telling you the same thing in perhaps a different manner here.

However, it appears to me that you’re thinking that it’s still acceptable for you to continue to talk to your friends or family in the same direct way, which appears to be hurtful to them.

It seems to be that in your line of thinking, there is nothing wrong with being critical and hurtful, as long as you get your point across to them.

I don’t know where this idea came from, to you.

It isn’t right or proper to deliberately hurt another person with our actions or our speech. It is contradictory to how we’re called to act, as Christians.

As I already mentioned, I personally think that if you continue on in this negative way, you will only alienate people around you. And, I am not saying this to try and hurt you.

It is just that I have known people who have behaved in this way, and sadly, people didn’t like being around them.

On top of that, people usually don’t like unsolicited advice, either, if that’s what you’re doing. Most of the time, if someone wants advice or opinions, they’ll ask someone for them.

God calls us to be loving to others. It’s even in Scripture where Jesus calls us to, “Love one another, as I have loved you.”

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I am just leaping out here to make an assumption here, so bear with me…

They may be ending the friendship with you because of your “delivery of your opinion” if it’s coming across as too harsh.

We’re all telling you the same thing in perhaps a different manner here.

However, it appears to me that you’re thinking that it’s still acceptable for you to continue to talk to your friends or family in the same direct way, which appears to be hurtful to them.

It seems to be that in your line of thinking, there is nothing wrong with being critical and hurtful, as long as you get your point across to them.

I don’t know where this idea came from, to you.

It isn’t right or proper to deliberately hurt another person with our actions or our speech. It is contradictory to how we’re called to act, as Christians.

As I already mentioned, I personally think that if you continue on in this negative way, you will only alienate people around you. And, I am not saying this to try and hurt you.

It is just that I have known people who have behaved in this way, and sadly, people didn’t like being around them.

On top of that, people usually don’t like unsolicited advice, either, if that’s what you’re doing. Most of the time, if someone wants advice or opinions, they’ll ask someone for them.

God calls us to be loving to others. It’s even in Scripture where Jesus calls us to, “Love one another, as I have loved you.”

Perhaps there are more important things than always wanting to be right.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

To discern how I learn to do the following:
I have a temptation to guess “fix” people or point out every wrong I see. I can be “too” honest or “too” opinionated. If I see a faster way of doing something, I will tell you and show you. I have difficulty with understanding why people make the same mistakes repeatedly. I think I point out of every wrong because it is not good to feel comfortable and part of me thinks they should not. I guess some people find me to be overbearing because I speak out on everything I observe. I honestly feel like this may be a cultural thing. I guess I have high ideals that most people can’t always live up to.

 

[oldgraymare2]

To discern how I learn to do the following:
I have a temptation to guess “fix” people or point out every wrong I see. I can be “too” honest or “too” opinionated. If I see a faster way of doing something, I will tell you and show you. I have difficulty with understanding why people make the same mistakes repeatedly. I think I point out of every wrong because it is not good to feel comfortable and part of me thinks they should not. I guess some people find me to be overbearing because I speak out on everything I observe. I honestly feel like this may be a cultural thing. I guess I have high ideals that most people can’t always live up to.

My Dear,

In all sincerity,

The only person that we can either change or control, is ourself.

If we try to control another person, it will come across that way to them and they will see it, and it might also appear to them as “nagging” behavior, too.

If you want to change anything that you’re doing for yourself, you can pray and ask God for the gifts and the fruits of His Holy Spirit.

You can pray for the gift of Wisdom, for example.

I ask for these gifts for myself, and He will freely give them to us.

The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are as follows below, along with the twelve fruits of the Spirit, too. I’m posting them because this link to ThoughtCo.'s website explains them in more detail. I always like to review them myself.

thoughtco.com/gifts-of-the-holy-spirit-542143

thoughtco.com/the-fruits-of-the-holy-spirit-542103

Anyway, I wish you all of the best with everything.

God bless you!

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Where is that boundary though? I mean this in all sincerity. We live in a society that is too fearful to call out sin. There are people who cheat on their spouses, it is not my place to say anything even though they are telling they are doing something immoral. As a close friend or sibling, I will criticize you, call you out and express disapproval. We don’t need any more yes men. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I wish others didn’t take them as seriously or personally. My friend took it personally when I told her the men she dates are not manly and too feminine. I didn’t insult her. She has told me she doesn’t think my boyfriends are cute.
To some playing devil’s advocate is wrong, I don’t think I should blindly agree or support you because you feel I should because we’re family or close friends. If come to me with an issue, I cant sit there and listen if I think you’re wrong, overreacting, lying, etc. I think people need to own up to their wrongs and be okay with being in the wrong. I sense some people fear criticism and fear judgment. Why? Opinions are just that, opinions. We’re all entitled to them. I don’t love you any less if I disagree with you or disapprove. This is what I’ve been trying to say. My family has no problem with calling you out when you gain weight. After all, we’re family. We should feel free to tell you what you need to hear. Criticism should force you to improve.

Is it worth losing friends and family for?

Something only needs to be said once, then keep your own counsel. And if you cannot find a nice way to say something, then don’t.

Critizing is not correcting. It is mean. It insults and upsets others.

You are not dating your friends partners. It is not up to you to say her choices are not manly enough for you. That’s just petty.

It is wrong to tell someone they are gaining or losing too much weight. That’s just mean too.

You have now offended anyone on this forum that is battling their weight. Offending others is uncharitable.

Gaining or losing weight is not a sin. First you claim you are going to correct those sinning. Then go on to say you are going to call people out who are battling weight, or perfectly happy being rounded then a media promoted stick figure.

It’s not your job to FORCE anyone to improve to your standards. It is our job to love and accept others and exercise charity.

Jesus does not run around in the Gospels criticising physical appearances, in fact the more people are outside society because of their affliction, the more Jesus interacts with them. Look at the hunched over woman in the temple, like that for 18yrs, repelled by society for her looks. What about the lepers. Shock horror Jesus touches them .

We are called to imitate Jesus.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

To discern how I learn to do the following:
I have a temptation to guess “fix” people or point out every wrong I see. I can be “too” honest or “too” opinionated. If I see a faster way of doing something, I will tell you and show you. I have difficulty with understanding why people make the same mistakes repeatedly. I think I point out of every wrong because it is not good to feel comfortable and part of me thinks they should not. I guess some people find me to be overbearing because I speak out on everything I observe. I honestly feel like this may be a cultural thing. I guess I have high ideals that most people can’t always live up to.

Pelagia:

Have you ever read Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen? There is a scene in which the heroine, Elizabeth, and her future brother in law Charles Bingley, are talking with Bingley’s sisters and with Mr. Darcy (Elizabeth’s future husband) and in which Charles admits to being a ‘careless writer, because my ideas move so rapidly that my hand does not keep pace’. Elizabeth commends him for his humility in acknowledging a fault, but Darcy notes (correctly) that this is 'an indirect boast, because you really believe that doing something quickly, like writing, is praiseworthy, and you focus on that more than the faults caused by it" (I’m paraphrasing in the quotes here).

I see a lot of that with your posts. Even when you acknowledge your own ‘faults’, you try to make them seem more praiseworthy than blamable, i.e., “I have high ideals and people can’t live up to them”,“I see what’s wrong and I want to fix things”.

But I notice that you say you have trouble understanding why people keep making the same mistakes. …

Yet you do not appear to see, understand, or acknowledge that you yourself are doing exactly that. You are making the same mistakes of thinking that because your ‘ends’ are praiseworthy --you just want to help, you want things ‘done right’-- that it justifies your means, meaning that if your ways of doing this are less than kind, or hurt others, that it’s ‘their fault’ for being hurt in the first place, or that you’re justified in being ‘tough’ because you’re doing it ‘for good’.

Catholic teaching is that the ends do NOT justify the means, however. One cannot do evil – and unkindness, brutality (your own words) etc. are evil–even if the end result dreamed of is good.

 

[Vico]

What does God mean that you are your brother’s keeper?

In all sincerity, why is it wrong to point out flaws in your family members?..

Why can’t people learn to be less reactive to what others have to say about them?..The Lord tells us not to be so easily offended. I think it is about pride.

If there is a fault to be discussed, keep it private at first. But there are three stages.

Matthew 18:15-17

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

Catechism
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280​

Sirach 21:3131 The talebearer shall defile his own soul, and shall be hated by all: and he that shall abide with him shall be hateful: the silent and wise man shall be honoured.

Proverbs 21:9It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop
than in a mansion with a quarrelsome woman.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

If there is a fault to be discussed, keep it private at first. But there are three stages.

Matthew 18:15-17

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

Catechism
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280​

Sirach 21:3131 The talebearer shall defile his own soul, and shall be hated by all: and he that shall abide with him shall be hateful: the silent and wise man shall be honoured.

Proverbs 21:9It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop
than in a mansion with a quarrelsome woman.

I’m always surprised how important it is in Christianity to care for the soul or well-being of other’s. How often we to think of heaven?

 

[mommy_k]

I’m always surprised how important it is in Christianity to care for the soul or well-being of other’s. How often we to think of heaven?

.
Jesus instructs us to love our neighbors and enemies

No where in the bible does the disordered need to be right justify treating others with a lack of charity. We are called to edify, build up …not tear down.

The need to be slways,right is in conflict with the teachings of Jesus and rooted in pride and lack of temperence.

 

[pianistclare]

To discern how I learn to do the following:
I have a temptation to guess “fix” people or point out every wrong I see. I can be “too” honest or “too” opinionated. If I see a faster way of doing something, I will tell you and show you. I have difficulty with understanding why people make the same mistakes repeatedly. I think I point out of every wrong because it is not good to feel comfortable and part of me thinks they should not. I guess some people find me to be overbearing because I speak out on everything I observe. I honestly feel like this may be a cultural thing. I guess I have high ideals that most people can’t always live up to.

Well, I have difficulty understanding why your own thinking should be forced on others.
It has nothing to do with high ideals. You give yourself way too much credit.
The Litany of Humility is the best place to start if you truly don’t want to be enslaved by these thoughts any longer. They do enslave you. You can’t function without believing you are the expert and everyone else is flawed, not good enough, not skilled enough, or just flat out wrong. It’s unhealthy.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m always surprised how important it is in Christianity to care for the soul or well-being of other’s. How often we to think of heaven?

**Why would you be surprised? Why exactly do you think Jesus came and lived among us and offered Himself up as the Pascal Lamb? **

 

[PelagiathePenit]

**Why would you be surprised? Why exactly do you think Jesus came and lived among us and offered Himself up as the Pascal Lamb? **

In our overly sensitive, politically correct society, I’ve grown impatient and find it annoying how you cannot say whatever you want without being labeled this or that. Whatever happened to call a spade a spade. I’m all for mercy. I just wish some people more honest, responsible, and thoughtful with actions. I wish people stopped whining about the consequences of their situations because if they sat back and thought about it rationally, they wouldn’t have been in that situation. Or people stubbornly insist on doing things their way when it has been proven many times to be wrong, unfruitful or inefficient. Or people who ear bluff themselves from valid, well-thought out advice. Too emotional and impulsive. More self-awareness and less self-centeredness.
Accountability. If you don’t act like a fool, no one will have reason to think you are one.
If you decide to not listen to good advice or live your life immorally, at least be smart about it and prepare yourself for the consequences of your actions.
Examples - plastic surgery can wrong, don’t make it a secret it will soon be obvious to others, be prepared to be judged.
I wish people were more realistic.
Like when women sleep around then complain, the man was using them or that he disrespected them. What did you think was going to happen? How is he using you if you agreed to it? Be smarter, if you cannot handle fornication, then DON’T. Do not expect him to care about you like a boyfriend would or should.
Perhaps I think in fornication, both parties are using each other, someone will always get hurt and some person will receive the shorter-end of the stick. Make sure that person is not you. Women always has more to lose.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Well, I have difficulty understanding why your own thinking should be forced on others.
It has nothing to do with high ideals. You give yourself way too much credit.
The Litany of Humility is the best place to start if you truly don’t want to be enslaved by these thoughts any longer. They do enslave you. You can’t function without believing you are the expert and everyone else is flawed, not good enough, not skilled enough, or just flat out wrong. It’s unhealthy.

Humility is a frightening and difficult virtue. The humility of the saints is almost imaginable. I’m scared. Christ be with me.

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

Your post had so many thoughts that I didn’t have time to address them, but one thing that did pop into my mind was Matthew 7:1-5 →

Matthew 7:1-5 — “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Thank you for reminding me about this Bible passage.

In all sincerity, why is it wrong to point out flaws in your family members?
When people are kin, it is easy to forget “boundaries”, I’m not sure if I believe in such boundaries. I guess because you know your family or perhaps even a close friend so well - it becomes difficult/tempting not to call them out when they are wrong.
My father has told me a good friend will disagree with you, tell you when you are in the wrong, - basically, try to improve you. A good friend is not afraid to be brutally honest with you.

 

[pianistclare]

In our overly sensitive, politically correct society, I’ve grown impatient and find it annoying how you cannot say whatever you want without being labeled this or that. Whatever happened to call a spade a spade. I’m all for mercy. I just wish some people more honest, responsible, and thoughtful with actions. I wish people stopped whining about the consequences of their situations because if they sat back and thought about it rationally, they wouldn’t have been in that situation. Or people stubbornly insist on doing things their way when it has been proven many times to be wrong, unfruitful or inefficient. Or people who ear bluff themselves from valid, well-thought out advice. Too emotional and impulsive. More self-awareness and less self-centeredness.
Accountability. If you don’t act like a fool, no one will have reason to think you are one.
If you decide to not listen to good advice or live your life immorally, at least be smart about it and prepare yourself for the consequences of your actions.
Examples - plastic surgery can wrong, don’t make it a secret it will soon be obvious to others, be prepared to be judged.
I wish people were more realistic.
Like when women sleep around then complain, the man was using them or that he disrespected them. What did you think was going to happen? How is he using you if you agreed to it? Be smarter, if you cannot handle fornication, then DON’T. Do not expect him to care about you like a boyfriend would or should.
Perhaps I think in fornication, both parties are using each other, someone will always get hurt and some person will receive the shorter-end of the stick. Make sure that person is not you. Women always has more to lose.

What in the world are you talking about? What has that got to do with anything, and why do think this is an appropriate response to the advice people have offered specific to the title of your thread?

**It appears that many respondents have indeed “Called a spade a spade”. **
Have you listened? Have you changed? Have you even HEARD or considered what any of the people have said?

nope.

I think there is your answer. You’re not the least bit sensitive yourself.
If you do not consider what others say, big surprise that you they don’t give any weight to what you say. People don’t listen. Why should they?
You don’t listen.
You’re shouting so loud you can’t hear anyone but yourself.
I wish you well, but this is probably the very last time you will receive a reply from me.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Perhaps I’ll one day learn when to keep my mouth shut or when honesty passes into cruelty.