What does it mean to "Believe in Jesus"?

[SteveVH]

But one has to personally join them self to the Body of Christ. Do you agree?

Yes, of course. We cannot be part of the body if we are not joined to the body. But there is a difference in viewing our relationship with God as “Jesus and me”, rather than a part of the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the People of God.

IMO having a relationship with Christ means having a relationship with his Church. It isn’t just me and Jesus. I look at it as a family relationship. Yes, I have a personal relationship with each of my children, but that relationship is always in the context of who we are to each other as family. The relationship we have as family gives meaning and purpose to the relationship we have with each other personally. It is the Church, the family of God, that gives meaning and purpose to the relationship we have personally with God.

Peace, my friend.

Steve

 

[SteveVH]

In recognition of this I have a tendency to avoid the phrase all together and replace it with something that is less ambiguous or less easily interpreted to mean one of the other meanings that I might not intend it to mean.

Such as…

 

[aidanbradypop]

How does Scripture tell us we are joined to the Body of Christ?

John 5:39-40

39** You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life**; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 6

43 Jesus answered them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44** No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him**; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. 46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48** I am the bread of life**. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread[c] which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and** the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh**.”

Matt.
**
26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins**.

1 Corinthians

16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation[e] in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation[f] in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18 Consider the practice of Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?

Hey Michael

My point is this

When you were confirmed, you personally made the decision to follow Christ.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Yes, of course. We cannot be part of the body if we are not joined to the body. But there is a difference in viewing our relationship with God as “Jesus and me”, rather than a part of the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the People of God.

IMO having a relationship with Christ means having a relationship with his Church. It isn’t just me and Jesus. I look at it as a family relationship. Yes, I have a personal relationship with each of my children, but that relationship is always in the context of who we are to each other as family. The relationship we have as family gives meaning and purpose to the relationship we have with each other personally. It is the Church, the family of God, that gives meaning and purpose to the relationship we have personally with God.

Peace, my friend.

Steve

Yeah sometimes it gets a little fuzzy. Saying Jesus is my personal Savior does not exclude Him as your personal Savior. The reason, or my understanding, is that by the Holy Spirit I am drawn to God and to conform my will with the will of God. Romans 12 describes it well. I personally have to surrender. Jesus is not mine and all mine.

 

[SteveVH]

Hey Michael

My point is this

When you were confirmed, you personally made the decision to follow Christ.

While this may be true, it is not the purpose of Confirmation. Many Catholics believe this is the purpose of Confirmation as well, the Catholic altar call, our one chance to proclaim our decision to follow Christ in the Catholic Church, as if we were undecided up to that point in time.

But that is not its purpose at all. It is a sacrament from which we receive a strengthening of the Holy Spirit within us and by which we receive certain spiritual gifts to help us in our walk with Christ. In the EO tradition, infants receive the sacrament of Confirmation along with Baptism and Eucharist; the sacraments of initiation. I love this practice because it makes us look at the true nature of sacrament. It is grace freely given by God out of nothing more than love for us. We are free to proclaim our allegiance to Christ any time.

 

[rcwitness]

Hey Michael

My point is this

When you were confirmed, you personally made the decision to follow Christ.

Yes

But here`s something deeper… I actually heard the Father calling me when I was around 5 yrs old at an Evangelical Free Church service (where I was raised). I then grew in understanding Him and His relationship to us, which goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, Abraham and his Covenant, Moses and his Commandments, the Prophets and finally Jesus.

I was baptized into the Catholic Faith as an adult and was Confirmed in my faith at that time also. I then participated in the Eucharist and now I struggle to receive in a worthy manner.

When was I saved, or when did I Believe in Jesus? I was given salvation and I do my best to remain in His salvation. I have confidence that with His grace, I will be there at my final breath too.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Yes

But here`s something deeper… I actually heard the Father calling me when I was around 5 yrs old at an Evangelical Free Church service (where I was raised). I then grew in understanding Him and His relationship to us, which goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, Abraham and his Covenant, Moses and his Commandments, the Prophets and finally Jesus.

I was baptized into the Catholic Faith as an adult and was Confirmed in my faith at that time also. I then participated in the Eucharist and now I struggle to receive in a worthy manner.

When was I saved, or when did I Believe in Jesus? I was given salvation and I do my best to remain in His salvation. I have confidence that with His grace, I will be there at my final breath too.

I believe you were saved when you believed Christ died your sins. Now that was only the start of it. You must maintain such a faith as well. Like you, I felt the call at an early age. My understanding grew as I matured as well. God calls whomever, whenever and however He so chooses.

We all struggle daily and if it were not for the Grace of God, I would sink in my sin. Praise that we have a merciful Father that loves and forgives us!

I have big issues with E-Free but that is for another thread

 

[SteveVH]

Yeah sometimes it gets a little fuzzy. Saying Jesus is my personal Savior does not exclude Him as your personal Savior. The reason, or my understanding, is that by the Holy Spirit I am drawn to God and to conform my will with the will of God. Romans 12 describes it well. I personally have to surrender. Jesus is not mine and all mine.

It has much richer meaning though when we look at our relationship with God as part of a wider family. We look at each other differently. That is the importance of “Church” as opposed to “Jesus and me”. That is the importance of “communion” with God and with each other. That is why we share one “bread”. We are not scattered limbs, heads and torsos, but a united Body. I think it is really important that we place our personal relationship with God in that context. God is not just “my” Father, he is “our” Father.

 

[aidanbradypop]

It has much richer meaning though when we look at our relationship with God as part of a wider family. We look at each other differently. That is the importance of “Church” as opposed to “Jesus and me”. That is the importance of “communion” with God and with each other. That is why we share one “bread”. We are not scattered limbs, heads and torsos, but a united Body. I think it is really important that we place our personal relationship with God in that context. God is not just “my” Father, he is “our” Father.

I get what you are saying. He is our Father. I would add that although He is the Father of all, it doesn’t take away from the personal relationship He has with each and every one of us.

 

[rcwitness]

I believe you were saved when you believed Christ died your sins. Now that was only the start of it. You must maintain such a faith as well.

I wont dissagree.

Like you, I felt the call at an early age. My understanding grew as I matured as well. God calls whomever, whenever and however He so chooses.

Being the child of genuine Christian parents is huge! When you believe in your parents, you believe in their Christian way (so long as it manifasts itself).

We all struggle daily and if it were not for the Grace of God, I would sink in my sin. Praise that we have a merciful Father that loves and forgives us!

Amen!

I have big issues with E-Free but that is for another thread

Funny thing is, I dont. I saw and participated in lots of good ministry at that community. Even after becoming Catholic! But I did have some issues that I had to raise with the youth pastor I helped. Namely, avoiding Baptizing kids who accepted the Lord as their personal savior, and preaching OSAS.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Funny thing is, I dont. I saw and participated in lots of good ministry at that community. Even after becoming Catholic! But I did have some issues that I had to raise with the youth pastor I helped. Namely, avoiding Baptizing kids who accepted the Lord as their personal savior, and preaching OSAS.

We have a big mega church here in my town that is EFree. I attended 5 services there. Two were Arminianism and three we Calvinism. They do not take a stance on the two so it often differs Sunday to Sunday. They are not big on baptism nor the Lord’s Supper. Maybe it is just an isolated congregation. They were OSAS and I am not but it was interesting because one Pastor was reformed and believed in Lordship salvation while the other had a Baptist view of it.

 

[Kliska]

There are many non-Catholic faith traditions that hold that one is saved simply by believing in Jesus. For those of you who believe this, what does it mean, exactly, to “believe in Jesus”?

Thanks to all.

Steve

Many Bibles translate “pistis” “pisteuo” etc… as “belief.” That isn’t a good translation, as we now think of “belief” as some type of mere head knowledge. The underlying word actually is “faith” or trusting with great confidence. So, there is several components; first Who is Jesus? We must have correct understanding of Who He is in order to have faith in Him. God the Son, the Messiah, the perfect Sacrifice, etc… is the correct object of faith, or trust.

So, to believe in Jesus is to trust Who He is and what He has done. Trusting in Him with great confidence for Who He is and what He has done, and holding on to Him for salvation. Repentance is included, which is a mind change about God and Jesus. Repentance isn’t just a “turning away” from something, but more importantly turning TO God.

We see, at least, what God considers to be faith, and that faith is indeed seen externally in action. So, as my old pastor used to say, faith can be “seen” as ABC; Action based upon Belief, sustained by Confidence. All of those things we agree on as part of Christian life and testimony is included; baptism, participation in the eucharist, laying on of hands, etc… are a part of those external actions that show inward faith. If we trust God, then we do what He says, with the power of the Holy Spirit, and only with His power (natural man cannot do so alone).

 

[rcwitness]

We have a big mega church here in my town that is EFree. I attended 5 services there. Two were Arminianism and three we Calvinism. They do not take a stance on the two so it often differs Sunday to Sunday. They are not big on baptism nor the Lord’s Supper. Maybe it is just an isolated congregation. They were OSAS and I am not but it was interesting because one Pastor was reformed and believed in Lordship salvation while the other had a Baptist view of it.

That`s dysfunction!

Maybe it is just an isolated congregation.

I wont deny that even Catholic parishes can go off the tracts. But the appeal to a common what we believe in is always available for the Catholic individual.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Many Bibles translate “pistis” “pisteuo” etc… as “belief.” That isn’t a good translation, as we now think of “belief” as some type of mere head knowledge. The underlying word actually is “faith” or trusting with great confidence. So, there is several components; first Who is Jesus? We must have correct understanding of Who He is in order to have faith in Him. God the Son, the Messiah, the perfect Sacrifice, etc… is the correct object of faith, or trust.

So, to believe in Jesus is to trust Who He is and what He has done. Trusting in Him with great confidence for Who He is and what He has done, and holding on to Him for salvation. Repentance is included, which is a mind change about God and Jesus. Repentance isn’t just a “turning away” from something, but more importantly turning TO God.

We see, at least, what God considers to be faith, and that faith is indeed seen externally in action. So, as my old pastor used to say, faith can be “seen” as ABC; Action based upon Belief, sustained by Confidence. All of those things we agree on as part of Christian life and testimony is included; baptism, participation in the eucharist, laying on of hands, etc… are a part of those external actions that show inward faith. If we trust God, then we do what He says, with the power of the Holy Spirit, and only with His power (natural man cannot do so alone).

well said

 

[aidanbradypop]

That`s dysfunction!

I wont deny that even Catholic parishes can go off the tracts. But the appeal to a common what we believe in is always available for the Catholic individual.

I believe they have a statement of faith so they have a little common belief on board. There are wonderful God loving people in Efree congregations but this one from my experience is open way too much.

 

[rcwitness]

well said

I second that Kliska

 

[SteveVH]

Many Bibles translate “pistis” “pisteuo” etc… as “belief.” That isn’t a good translation, as we now think of “belief” as some type of mere head knowledge. The underlying word actually is “faith” or trusting with great confidence. So, there is several components; first Who is Jesus? We must have correct understanding of Who He is in order to have faith in Him. God the Son, the Messiah, the perfect Sacrifice, etc… is the correct object of faith, or trust.

So, to believe in Jesus is to trust Who He is and what He has done. Trusting in Him with great confidence for Who He is and what He has done, and holding on to Him for salvation. Repentance is included, which is a mind change about God and Jesus. Repentance isn’t just a “turning away” from something, but more importantly turning TO God.

We see, at least, what God considers to be faith, and that faith is indeed seen externally in action. So, as my old pastor used to say, faith can be “seen” as ABC; Action based upon Belief, sustained by Confidence. All of those things we agree on as part of Christian life and testimony is included; baptism, participation in the eucharist, laying on of hands, etc… are a part of those external actions that show inward faith. If we trust God, then we do what He says, with the power of the Holy Spirit, and only with His power (natural man cannot do so alone).

Thanks, Kliska. Glad to hear you say this.

This thread came to mind out of my own sinfulness. I truly, with all of my heart, believe that Jesus is who he said he is, the Son of the living God, the Savior of the world, and I desire to follow him. If “believing” was all that was necessary for my salvation I would have it made. But I turn away from him in my sin and I feel a separation. When I am in sin I am not connected to the Vine. As I pondered this, it became self evident to me that simply “believing” is not enough. We must also do something about it by the way we live or our belief is in vain.

God bless.

Steve

 

[aidanbradypop]

Thanks, Kliska. Glad to hear you say this.

This thread came to mind out of my own sinfulness. I truly, with all of my heart, believe that Jesus is who he said he is, the Son of the living God, the Savior of the world, and I desire to follow him. If “believing” was all that was necessary for my salvation I would have it made. But I turn away from him in my sin and I feel a separation. When I am in sin I am not connected to the Vine. As I pondered this, it became self evident to me that simply “believing” is not enough. We must also do something about it by the way we live or our belief is in vain.

God bless.

Steve

I always say that believing is only the start of a life long process of becoming holy.

 

[SteveVH]

I always say that believing is only the start of a life long process of becoming holy.

Yes, you have.

 

[Denise1957]

But isn’t that what the thief on the cross did? He believed, confessed his belief and Jesus promised him that the thief would be with him in Paradise!

St. Dismas was in the physical presence of Our Lord Himself. The Catholic Church did not yet exist, since Our Lord was still alive in the flesh, here in this world. It wasn’t until 50 days after the Resurrection, on the day of Pentacost, that the Church began, or was born.