What does it mean to have an unrecognized marriage

[rdcathnet]

I am Catholic and have never been married. My Jewish fiance was married to a non-Christian. We are planning to have our wedding in a neutral setting with both a Rabbi and Priest present (either as a co-officient, or to give his blessing). And we plan on bringing our children up to know both religions. I understand most of the steps we need to take according to Canon Law (needing dispensation for the neutal setting, and that he needs to get his previous marriage annuled by the Catholic church, etc).

However, they have not spoken since their ugly divorce, and he has asked me how important it is to me that he get an annulment and that the church recogizes our marriage.

What does it mean if the Catholic Church does not recognize our marriage? Will our children be able to get baptised?

 

[Cristiano]

His first marriage is consider valid until a proper review done by the dioceses affirms to the contrary.

You cannot marry a person (even of a different religion) that is considered in a valid marriage. It is sinful to do so.

You must be married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid and sacramental marriage. It is sinful not to do so.

When you get married with a non-Catholic in the Catholic Church, both the spouses have to agree that the children will be baptized and raised as Catholics. It is sinful not to do so.

There is nothing wrong for a person to know about different religions. However, teaching about different religions to children it may look (to the children) that all the religions being taught contain the full Truth. That would then fall in the realm of parents exposing their children to false doctrines, and it is condemned by canon law.

If you choose to disregard the Church requirements, then your children may be at risk on not being baptized because of your choices. That is based on the expectation that a person unwilling to follow the Church cannot be a proper religious guide for the children. However, they will be able to get baptized for sure once they are old enough and desire so.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

You must be married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid and sacramental marriage. It is sinful not to do so.

Not exactly. You can be married elsewhere as long as you’ve received a dispensation. However, you can’t be validly married to someone who is already married.

From the USCCB:

1. If a Catholic wishes to marry in a place outside the Catholic church, how can he or she be sure that the marriage is recognized by the Catholic Church as valid?

The local bishop can permit a wedding in another church, or in another suitable place, for a sufficient reason. For example, a Catholic seeks to marry a Baptist whose father is the pastor of the local Baptist church. The father wants to officiate at the wedding. In these circumstances, the bishop could permit the couple to marry in the Baptist church. The permission in these instances is called a “dispensation from canonical form.”

In addition, a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Christian will be valid but NOT sacramental. Again, from the USCCB:

1. Do Catholics ever validly enter into non-sacramental marriages?

Yes. Marriages between Catholics and non-Christians, while they may still be valid in the eyes of the Church, are non-sacramental. With permission, a priest or deacon may witness such marriages.

When you get married with a non-Catholic in the Catholic Church, both the spouses have to agree that the children will be baptized and raised as Catholics. It is sinful not to do so.

Not exactly. The Catholic party must promise to do her best to raise the children as Catholics and the non-Catholic party must be informed of this promise.

Once again from the USCCB:

1. When a Catholic marries a non-Catholic, must the non-Catholic promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith?

The non-Catholic spouse does not have to promise to have the children raised Catholic. The Catholic spouse must promise to do all that he or she can to have the children baptized and raised in the Catholic faith.

 

[dixieagle]

His first marriage is consider valid until a proper review done by the dioceses affirms to the contrary.

You cannot marry a person (even of a different religion) that is considered in a valid marriage. It is sinful to do so.

You must be married in the Catholic Church in order to have a valid and sacramental marriage. It is sinful not to do so.

When you get married with a non-Catholic in the Catholic Church, both the spouses have to agree that the children will be baptized and raised as Catholics. It is sinful not to do so.

There is nothing wrong for a person to know about different religions. However, teaching about different religions to children it may look (to the children) that all the religions being taught contain the full Truth. That would then fall in the realm of parents exposing their children to false doctrines, and it is condemned by canon law.

If you choose to disregard the Church requirements, then your children may be at risk on not being baptized because of your choices. That is based on the expectation that a person unwilling to follow the Church cannot be a proper religious guide for the children. However, they will be able to get baptized for sure once they are old enough and desire so.

I think there are several misinterpretations of actual Church law here. There can be a “Dispensation from Canonical Form” given by a bishop if a Catholic wishes to marry a non-Catholic somewhere other than a Catholic Church for various reasons.

The OP should contact a priest who can direct the couple with regard to several of the issues mentioned.

Also, according to the Code of Canon Law (1983):

Canon 1125.1: “The Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church.”

– Canon 1125.2: “The other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party.”

So, though the Catholic spouse must promise to do all possible to bring up the children as Catholics, the non-Catholic doesn’t have to make the same promise but must be aware of the promise.

Sometimes gets confusing, but the best course of action is always to first contact a priest and take it from there.

 

[rdcathnet]

Thanks for all your responses and clarifications.

We have done quite a bit of research already on the matter (spoken with an interfaith discussion group, and met once with a Rabbi and Priest together), and we are aware that we can get married outside the church with a priest present, if my fiancé is “free to marry”, which, he currently is not. If he does not get the annulment before our wedding, I understand the most the priest may be able to do is give his blessing.

QUOTE: However, you can’t be validly married to someone who is already married.

What does this mean to the Catholic church to not be “validly married?” What are the “ramifications” (for lack of a better word) on me as a Catholic, our interfaith marriage, or on our children being brought up baptized and to know Catholicism?

Of course I would prefer for him to get the annulment from his ex-wife, but I also understand his questioning of “how important is this” to me? I understand that it is A LOT to ask for him to contact his Jewish ex-wife (whom he has not spoken to in years) for a Catholic annulment. I am trying to find the answer to this question, so I can balance how important this is to me, and my faith, and to my future interfaith marriage.

 

[rick43235]

Of course I would prefer for him to get the annulment from his ex-wife, but I also understand his questioning of “how important is this” to me? I understand that it is A LOT to ask for him to contact his Jewish ex-wife (whom he has not spoken to in years) for a Catholic annulment. I am trying to find the answer to this question, so I can balance how important this is to me, and my faith, and to my future interfaith marriage.

As one who is just beginning the annulment process, I have been led to understand that you do not have to personally contact the ex-spouse. You simply give the Tribunal the ex’s contact information, and they make contact. That said, I will be contacting my ex just to give her a “heads up” about what is going on and what to expect. My hope is that she will be more open and responsive to the process if I give her some warning rather than let her get an unexpected letter from the Tribunal.

Finally, I commend you on your understanding that it IS a lot to ask of your husband to go through this process. From my perspective, it’s a royal pain in the butt. But, like your husband, I am willing to do it for the woman I love.

Good luck.

 

[rick43235]

QUOTE: However, you can’t be validly married to someone who is already married.

What does this mean to the Catholic church to not be “validly married?” What are the “ramifications” (for lack of a better word) on me as a Catholic, our interfaith marriage, or on our children being brought up baptized and to know Catholicism?

Decided to respond to this question too.

We don’t have children, so I’m not sure how being in an “invalid” marriage would affect them. In our situation, however, my wife is affected by our “irregular marriage situation” only by the fact that she cannot receive communion when we go to Mass. While I’m sure she is looking forward to the time when this situation is remedied, she assures me that she is fine with the current situation as we go through the annulment process.

 

[1ke]

What does this mean to the Catholic church to not be “validly married?” What are the “ramifications” (for lack of a better word) on me as a Catholic, our interfaith marriage, or on our children being brought up baptized and to know Catholicism?

What it means is that you would be in a state of mortal sin and would not be able to receive any of the Sacraments. In short-- it puts your soul in grave danger.

As to children, canon law stipulates that there must be a well founded hope that the child will be raised Catholic if they receive Catholic baptism-- in fact, that’s what you promise to do as the parent baptizing the child. Getting married outside the Church is not a good indication that you plan to follow church teaching and raise your child as a Catholic. The priest might delay baptism until such time has he can be assured you WILL raise them Catholic.

Also, while it is certainly acceptable to teach the children about their father’s religion, your obligation as a Catholic is to raise them Catholic.

Of course I would prefer for him to get the annulment from his ex-wife, but I also understand his questioning of “how important is this” to me? I understand that it is A LOT to ask for him to contact his Jewish ex-wife (whom he has not spoken to in years) for a Catholic annulment.

He does not have to have any contact with her. In fact, he should let the tribunal handle that. He only needs to supply the contact information to the tribunal, not make the contact himself.

I am trying to find the answer to this question, so I can balance how important this is to me, and my faith, and to my future interfaith marriage.

Well, how important is going to Heaven? I’d say it’s pretty darn important.

Does he not intend to convert to the Catholic faith?

 

[1ke]

Decided to respond to this question too.

We don’t have children, so I’m not sure how being in an “invalid” marriage would affect them. In our situation, however, my wife is affected by our “irregular marriage situation” only by the fact that she cannot receive communion when we go to Mass. While I’m sure she is looking forward to the time when this situation is remedied, she assures me that she is fine with the current situation as we go through the annulment process.

Actually, you have understated the situation here quite drastically. It’s not “just” that she cannot receive Communion it’s that she cannot receive communion because she is in a state of mortal sin. She can’t receive Reconcilation either (unless you’ve ceased relations, that is). And, her soul is in jeopardy should she die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin.

 

[Cristiano]

Not exactly. You can be married elsewhere as long as you’ve received a dispensation. However, you can’t be validly married to someone who is already married.

From the USCCB:

1. If a Catholic wishes to marry in a place outside the Catholic church, how can he or she be sure that the marriage is recognized by the Catholic Church as valid?

The local bishop can permit a wedding in another church, or in another suitable place, for a sufficient reason. For example, a Catholic seeks to marry a Baptist whose father is the pastor of the local Baptist church. The father wants to officiate at the wedding. In these circumstances, the bishop could permit the couple to marry in the Baptist church. The permission in these instances is called a “dispensation from canonical form.”

When I said that she needs to be married in the Catholic Church I did not mean the physical location by the institution. When you get dispensation from the Bishop you are still validly married within the Church. I apologize for the confusion.

I stand corrected for the other mis-statements.

 

[rick43235]

Actually, you have understated the situation here quite drastically. It’s not “just” that she cannot receive Communion it’s that she cannot receive communion because she is in a state of mortal sin. She can’t receive Reconcilation either (unless you’ve ceased relations, that is). And, her soul is in jeopardy should she die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin.

While I am certain that you are sincere in your beliefs, I’m afraid that I don’t share them. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern.

 

[1ke]

While I am certain that you are sincere in your beliefs, I’m afraid that I don’t share them. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern.

I realize that you don’t.

But, your answer could have been misleading to the OP, who is a Catholic and was asking for a Catholic answer regarding what the ramifications are.

Moreover, by marrying civilly and then seeking a decree of nullity, the OP is also presuming the decree will be granted. If it is not, there is no remedy but to separate from the invalid marriage-- or put herself outside the Church permanently (unless the first spouse dies or her husband predeceases her).

 

[IrishAm]

While I am certain that you are sincere in your beliefs, I’m afraid that I don’t share them. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern.

But, as usual, 1ke was indeed correct in his statement about what the Catholic Church believes.

 

[1ke]

But, as usual, 1ke was indeed correct in his statement about what the Catholic Church believes.

Thank you.

Minor point, I’m a “she”.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am Catholic and have never been married. My Jewish fiance was married to a non-Christian. We are planning to have our wedding in a neutral setting with both a Rabbi and Priest present (either as a co-officient, or to give his blessing). And we plan on bringing our children up to know both religions. I understand most of the steps we need to take according to Canon Law (needing dispensation for the neutal setting, and that he needs to get his previous marriage annuled by the Catholic church, etc).

However, they have not spoken since their ugly divorce, and he has asked me how important it is to me that he get an annulment and that the church recogizes our marriage.

What does it mean if the Catholic Church does not recognize our marriage? Will our children be able to get baptised?

Many Bishops will not grant you a dispensation with this view “we plan on bringing our children up to know both religions.” The Catholic party must state that they will do everything possible to Baptize AND RAISE the children Catholic, before most Bishops will grant a dispensation to Marry an un-Baptized persoon. Second Yes his Marriage will need to be looked into before you can proceed with anything else. Third a Catholic Priest cannot “Co-officiate”.

If the Church does not recognize your Marriage, you will be unable to receive any of the Sacraments.

Most likely a priest will not Baptize your children unless he is certain that you will raise them as Catholics.

 

[IrishAm]

Thank you.

Minor point, I’m a “she”.

Everybody knows that we Catholics say “he” when we mean “he and she.” (I’M KIDDING, PEOPLE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON’T FLAME ME . . . )

 

[rdcathnet]

Again, thank you all for your answers and comments. This is all very insightful and helpful.

“What it means is that you would be in a state of mortal sin and would not be able to receive any of the Sacraments. In short-- it puts your soul in grave danger.”

Can someone please elaborate more on WHY it is a mortal sin if he does not get his marriage annuled? It is because if the Catholic church does not recognize the marriage, (even though we are legally married) we will be considered living together in sin, having premarrital sex, and having kids out of Catholic wedlock? AND because I am knowingly sinning according to Canon Law, that is why I cannot participate in any other Sacraments, including Reconciliation? And only if he passes first (or his 1st spouse passes) can I participate in reconciliation (and other sacraments), because only then, am I no longer knowinly sinning? Is this correct?

"As to children, canon law stipulates that there must be a well founded hope that the child will be raised Catholic if they receive Catholic baptism-- in fact, that’s what you promise to do as the parent baptizing the child. Getting married outside the Church is not a good indication that you plan to follow church teaching and raise your child as a Catholic. The priest might delay baptism until such time has he can be assured you WILL raise them Catholic.

Also, while it is certainly acceptable to teach the children about their father’s religion, your obligation as a Catholic is to raise them Catholic."

Also, I beg to differ with this statement. Again, we’ve done much “research” on this also.

I believe that many Catholics practice Catholicism with blinders on. They go to church, say the prayers, and celebrate the holidays without really even knowing what they are saying, doing, and WHY.

Being with a non-Catholic, I have been forced to really look at Catholicism so that I could explain to my partner our beliefs and WHY things are done. I believe that since I have been forced to really look at my religion, (only after a few months) I already understand it better (truer) than I did going to mass every Sunday growing up and all the 8 years of CCD classes. And I’m learning more and more each week. Talking to couples who are in successful Catholic-Jewish marriages (with children), they feel they have a stronger faith than most couples they know not in an interfaith marriage (that just follow tradition). I’m pretty sure the law does not say we need to raise them Catholic" but to do our best to teach them about the faith. Which I believe we will be able to do better than those parents that practice with blinders.

I know there are strong opinions for and against interfaith marriages. And I don’t want to make this a debate about that. I’m just trying to understand the topic of and “unrecognized marriage”.

 

[puzzleannie]

I However, they have not spoken since their ugly divorce, and he has asked me how important it is to me that he get an annulment and that the church recogizes our marriage.

What does it mean if the Catholic Church does not recognize our marriage? Will our children be able to get baptised?

inthe first place, he needs to have no contact with his ex in order to pursue annulment. In the second place, how important is it to you? Is it important to you that you will be separated from the sacramental life of the Church, unable to receive Jesus in communion and his forgiveness in confession? Important enough that you realize you will be deliberately and voluntarily entering into a state of mortal sin, wilfully separating yourself from Christ and His Church, and in danger of hell if you die unrepentent? You may not baptize your children in the Catholic Church unless you give evidence and assurance you plan to raise them and educate them Catholic. According to OP this is not the case, so a priest would be justified in delaying baptism until such assurance is forthcoming. The greatest tragedy that can befall a Catholic is not death, it is separation from Christ, and that is what you are contemplating. Please pray on this as if your eternal life depends on it.

 

[rick43235]

I realize that you don’t.

But, your answer could have been misleading to the OP, who is a Catholic and was asking for a Catholic answer regarding what the ramifications are.

I would never try to dissuade someone from their religious beliefs, Catholic or not. I was simply conveying to the OP, whose situation is similar to mine, what the practical effects of my situation have been for my wife and I. That said, you are right that this is a Catholic forum and she may have been looking for a more Catholic answer, so your point is well taken.

 

[Chris_Robinson]

inthe first place, he needs to have no contact with his ex in order to pursue annulment. In the second place, how important is it to you? Is it important to you that you will be separated from the sacramental life of the Church, unable to receive Jesus in communion and his forgiveness in confession? Important enough that you realize you will be deliberately and voluntarily entering into a state of mortal sin, wilfully separating yourself from Christ and His Church, and in danger of hell if you die unrepentent? You may not baptize your children in the Catholic Church unless you give evidence and assurance you plan to raise them and educate them Catholic. According to OP this is not the case, so a priest would be justified in delaying baptism until such assurance is forthcoming. The greatest tragedy that can befall a Catholic is not death, it is separation from Christ, and that is what you are contemplating. Please pray on this as if your eternal life depends on it.

Thats pretty heavy.