What does poverty of spirit mean?

[KingAlfred]

KingAlfred:
Sorry to hear this. Maybe the influence will get much worse. Its possible that your son, once he tries the non-religion tact, will see how hopeless it is. You may have to watch painfully your son for a few years go through a bad spell trying this out. Hopefully the good influence you had in his youth will make better sense to him after he goes through this.

Nagging is rarely effective [not saying you do this but just an observation]. Sometimes kids will do rotten things just for the “payoff” of knowing they get us riled. I learned the hard way not to respond emotionally but hide my emotions behind statements like, ‘really, then what happened?’, 'what makes you say that?" etc. A poker face is very disarming! And then I learn more about what’s really up.

Also, the eventual wife and kids can have a wonderful effect on one’s views of God. Many parents have returned to the Faith when they have kids to raise.

Prayer, fasting and penance won’t hurt.

I have a similar situation with my grown son - not as severe as yours but frightening in the same way. Throughout the day I pray for him and offer up little things. I ask God for humility both for him and myself. I too am frightened for his soul and discouraged.

Thank you for your thoughtful advice and insights. Indeed, I suspect that once my son enters the work-force after college, and undergoes the continuous merger of his ideals, education and real-life experiences in the formation of his beliefs and personality, he will return to his Catholic roots. As you said, once he realizes that life without Christ is empty and meaningless, the path back to the Church should become even better illuminated.

 

[abucs]

KingAlfred,

Sometimes those ideas get intertwined with being grown up and independant, i.e. thinking for yourself. Sometimes it is used as a crutch for an independant, know-it-all identity of a young person who is finding their self in the world.

Perhaps when he gets ‘really’ confident about himself, he’ll stop using that crutch and look again?

The following links may or may not help. I’d also suggest looking at how western science came out of religion. The mindset and thinking of the scientists who actually founded science, where their ideas came from, who funded them, who went before them and who was responsible for collecting and propogating knowledge from one generation to the next and founding schools, universities and hosptitals. The idea that Christinaity is anti science and logic is a modern con job. Like all con jobs, it will be seem that way at some stage. Perhaps your son will not respond so enthusiastically to the atheism idea when he realises he is being conned ? Good luck anyway. May he come around and see Christianity as a non pressurring transcendant religion of gentleness, love and patience and see that it is more rational, logical and scientifically based than atheism - which despite the protestations, has its own set of beliefs.

Some of the following thoughts may or may not get the ball rolling.

aca.mq.edu.au/PaulDavies/prize_address.htm

bethinking.org/who-am-i/introductory/am-i-significant-in-the-universe-or-just-an-accident.htm

homepages.tcp.co.uk/~carling/god&bb1.html

reasons.org/resources/apologetics/other_papers/the_metaphysics_of_quantum_mechanics.shtml

newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/04/einstein_and_the_mind_of_god.html

physics.iitm.ac.in/~arvind/ph350/mermin.pdf

Bell’s Theorem Proof (have to google - blocked at my work)

www2.cruzio.com/~quanta/bell.html

Bell’s Theorem with Easy Math (Have to google - blocked at my work)

DrChinese Presents Bell’s Theorem (Have to google - blocked at my work)

bottomlayer.com/bottom/Worldview.html

answering-islam.org/Bible/Text/wijngaards.html

 

[KingAlfred]

KingAlfred,

Sometimes those ideas get intertwined with being grown up and independant, i.e. thinking for yourself. Sometimes it is used as a crutch for an independant, know-it-all identity of a young person who is finding their self in the world.

Perhaps when he gets ‘really’ confident about himself, he’ll stop using that crutch and look again?

The following links may or may not help. I’d also suggest looking at how western science came out of religion. The mindset and thinking of the scientists who actually founded science, where their ideas came from, who funded them, who went before them and who was responsible for collecting and propogating knowledge from one generation to the next and founding schools, universities and hosptitals. The idea that Christinaity is anti science and logic is a modern con job. Like all con jobs, it will be seem that way at some stage. Perhaps your son will not respond so enthusiastically to the atheism idea when he realises he is being conned ? Good luck anyway. May he come around and see Christianity as a non pressurring transcendant religion of gentleness, love and patience and see that it is more rational, logical and scientifically based than atheism - which despite the protestations, has its own set of beliefs.

Some of the following thoughts may or may not get the ball rolling.

aca.mq.edu.au/PaulDavies/prize_address.htm

bethinking.org/who-am-i/introductory/am-i-significant-in-the-universe-or-just-an-accident.htm

homepages.tcp.co.uk/~carling/god&bb1.html

reasons.org/resources/apologetics/other_papers/the_metaphysics_of_quantum_mechanics.shtml

newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/04/einstein_and_the_mind_of_god.html

physics.iitm.ac.in/~arvind/ph350/mermin.pdf

Bell’s Theorem Proof (have to google - blocked at my work)

www2.cruzio.com/~quanta/bell.html

Bell’s Theorem with Easy Math (Have to google - blocked at my work)

DrChinese Presents Bell’s Theorem (Have to google - blocked at my work)

bottomlayer.com/bottom/Worldview.html

answering-islam.org/Bible/Text/wijngaards.html

Thanks. Good links. I’m parusing them now. I appreciate it.

 

[Cinette]

To be poor in spirit means to be in a state in which you seek God. It’s understanding that without God you have nothing.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with owning nice things. It’s when you make those things an end in and of themselves that is problematic. If you are materially wealthy, and yet you’re a mean nasty creature without a smile or a kind word for a single soul who walks the earth, then you really have nothing. You become blessed when you become aware that you are poor in spirit and in spite of everything you own, you need something you can not buy: God’s love. We inherit the Kingdom of Heaven when we give His love to others, when we give our very selves to others.

That’s how I understand it anyway.

I have just seen this thread and have come across your post #5 and this is exactly how I have interpreted “poor in spirit” to mean…that we acknowledge that by ourselves we can do nothing, we are totally dependant on God for everything.

Rich does not only mean materially rich. A person who is good, sweet, kind, charitable is RICH!

:yup:



:clapping:

 

[Cinette]

Can one be rich and be poverty of spirit.

My dear readers i will give you my own life experience.

I have been senior executive for major fortune-five hundred companies. I made lots of monies in my life. Lived all over the world literally for the companies that i worked for. i was what i thought a practicing catholic at the time. I didn’t know better. I was married twice and had five children two with the first marriage and three with the second. I never knew peace in my family or in my work. My spirit was in power, goods etc. and not necessarily in my family although I did try to set time for them. This life led me to two divorces and two annulments. Of course my wife’s also played their own role in the destruction of our marriage never the less there isn’t one day that doesn’t go by that I don’t regret this attitude that i once had for power and goods. Along the way i met many men and women in executive position that were in the same boat. Finally God stripped me of all my goods and power in a matter of 6 years he took it all. At the time i felt like Job but, the reality was that God loved me so much that he stripped me from the chains of those things that did not allow me to love him with purity. I thank God every day for this. After this purification which went on as i say for a good 6 - 8 years one day I felt a call from God to be a priest. Well you will be glad to know that I will be entering the seminary in january, 2009 as a Diocesan candidate to the Priest hood. Thank yoiu Lord for cleansing my heart and my spirit now that i have been cleasned from world allurments I can be free to Know, Love and serve God. I hope this real Life story helps some one.

Wonderful story. I am so happy that you are to enter the priesthood and I hope that it will yield an abundant harvest.
:tiphat:

:yup:

 

[Cinette]

Dear Whatever Girl,

The grace to live surrounded by material things and still live detached shows that God has been very gracious and loves you very much. Never take it for granted!!!

All of us in one way or the other are challeged by God with things and situations which make us stretch out of our save zone. The Cross is the greatest grace of all especially if we have the wisdom to accept and offer our suffering to Jesus. This is the greatest grace of all “to die with Jesus on his Cross” by emptying ourselves completely because of our Love for God. This is true poverty. To allow Jesus to mould us on his time and in his way, not ours.

If we allow this than we will be like St. Jane of Chantal (yesterdays Saint). We will be Martyrs of our faith in Life. Jesus will use this to save other souls if we only allow him to do so.

God Bless you always.

I am named after Jane of Chantal - my name is Jeanne-Francoise and I have NEVER read her story. I do know she was associated with Francis de Sales.

Thank you for your postings.

A big hug
:hug1:

 

[abucs]

Your welcome KingAlfred.

 

[Oakleaf]

“Poverty of Spirit” can be succinctly described as DETACHMENT from created things.

The next step after detachment from created things is love of people.

Thank you folks for sharing your thoughts on this. I always interpreted the English phrase (beware of translations!) “poverty of spirit” as sort of like humility. But now that you explain it as above, I think your explanation could be closer to the real meaning. Ding - lightbulb :newidea:

 

[NeedImprovement]

Thank you folks for sharing your thoughts on this. I always interpreted the English phrase (beware of translations!) “poverty of spirit” as sort of like humility. But now that you explain it as above, I think your explanation could be closer to the real meaning. Ding - lightbulb :newidea:

Grab the new idea but maybe don’t let go of the original idea just yet Oakleaf. I enjoyed everyone’s posts to date w/ special mention to tr1954 and BeeSweet, but I believe humility ***is ***definitely an integral part of the equation.

Even were we to be detached from created things, something called spiritual pride could still exist…so the two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[catharina]

Grab the new idea but maybe don’t let go of the original idea just yet Oakleaf. I enjoyed everyone’s posts to date w/ special mention to tr1954 and BeeSweet, but I believe humility ***is ***definitely an integral part of the equation.

Even were we to be detached from created things, something called spiritual pride could still exist…so the two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.

Terrific. Agree. I’ve gone back to pg 1 of this thread and pulled out the final canons that I’d presented from the Code of Canon Law:

2546 "Blessed are the poor in spirit."338 The Beatitudes reveal an order of happiness and grace, of beauty and peace. Jesus celebrates the joy of the poor, to whom the Kingdom already belongs:339 The Word speaks of voluntary humility as “poverty in spirit”; the Apostle gives an example of God’s poverty when he says: "For your sakes he became poor."340 2547 The Lord grieves over the rich, because they find their consolation in the abundance of goods.341 "Let the proud seek and love earthly kingdoms, but blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven."342 Abandonment to the providence of the Father in heaven frees us from anxiety about tomorrow.343 Trust in God is a preparation for the blessedness of the poor. They shall see God.

repeated link to Code

64.233.169.104/search?q=cache…gl=us&ie=UTF-8

 

[NeedImprovement]

This is a really special thread. Anyone who’s been posting in one of those “ahem” threads which eventually evolved into heated divisive bickering knows what I’m talking about.

…Not so with this thread. In this one, it’s more like the poster takes the spark/inspiration from a previous post and then contributes something edifying.

I’m really learning a lot from this thread.Thanks to everybody who is posting here and God Bless you…Hope there’s still more posts to come in this thread.
:thumbsup:

 

[chewchoo]

i was reading one of the meditations in the magnificat…

this is from saint teresa of avila

i hold that when the soul does something on its own to help itself in this prayer of union, even though this may at first seem beneficial, it will very soon fall again since it doesn’t have a good foundation. i fear that it will never attain true poverty of spirit, which means being at rest in labors and dryness and not seeking consolation or comfort in prayer - for earthly consolation has already been abandoned - but seeking consolation in trials for love of him who has always lived in the midst of them. although if some consolation is felt, it shouldn’t cause the disturbance and pain it does to some persons who think that if they aren’t always working with the intellect and striving for devotion all is lost - as though so great a blessing could be merited by their labor. i don’t say that they shouldn’t strive carefully to remain in God’s presence, but that if they can’t even get a good thought, as i’ve mentioned elsewhere, they shouldn’t kill themselves. we are useless servants, what do we think we can do?

 

[whatevergirl]

This is a really special thread. Anyone who’s been posting in one of those “ahem” threads which eventually evolved into heated divisive bickering knows what I’m talking about.

…Not so with this thread. In this one, it’s more like the poster takes the spark/inspiration from a previous post and then contributes something edifying.

I’m really learning a lot from this thread.Thanks to everybody who is posting here and God Bless you…Hope there’s still more posts to come in this thread.

                                              :thumbsup:

I too have learned so much from this…I’m glad I decided to ask the question. You know, sometimes I feel…is this question silly or will people think I should ‘know’ the answer, but we’re all on a journey…whether we’re converts, or cradle Catholics…or poking our head in as non Catholics…it’s always good to ask, even if you’re a bit sheepish.