What does the Bible mean to Catholics?

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by Apollos
I am astonished at the sheer lack of content of these sessions. I can never again endorse RCIA for anyone.

Lightbee,
Thanks for this post. We certainly should not draw any generalized conclusions based on one persons experience at one parish. There is an old adage in statistics that one data point does not make a trend.

As to keeping your mouth shut etc… Absolutely not… Talk, share and keep learning.
Given the circumstances in your parish It may well be that God is calling you to an important job in His Church.
Your background and knowledge could well put you in line to be running the RCIA soon, or become DRE - I dunno - Something.

Finjally as to coming off as “boasting” or a “know it all”, that can be tricky. It depends an awful lot on the interaction between people and one can easily be seen as boasting by one and not by another person in the same room…

The best thing to do is to try and foster a sense of humility in ones speach; To listen carefully and answer thoughtfully. But most importantly, be honest and truthful with others. We cannot control how they will react, we can only control how we act.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

A few excerpts from Popes etc:

Pope St. Gregory I (died 604 AD)
“The Emperor of heaven, the Lord of men and of angels, has sent you His epistles for
your life’s advantage—and yet you neglect to read them eagerly. Study them, I beg you, and meditate daily on the words of your Creator. Learn the heart of God in the words of God, that you may sigh more eagerly for things eternal, that your soul may be kindled with greater longings for heavenly joys.”
[Letters, 5, 46. (EnchBibl 31)]

Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903 AD)

“The calm and fair consideration of what has been said will clearly show that the Church has never failed in taking due measures to bring the Scriptures within reach of her children, and that she has ever held fast and exercised profitably that guardianship conferred upon her by Almighty God for the protection and glory of His holy Word…” Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus, On the Study of Sacred Scripture, 1893

Third Council of Baltimore (7 December AD 1884)—for USA

“It can hardly be necessary for us to remind you, beloved brethren, that the most highly valued treasure of every family library, and the most frequently and lovingly made use of, should be the Holy Scriptures… We hope that no family can be found amongst us without a correct version of the Holy Scriptures

Pope St. Pius X (1903-1914 AD)

“Nothing would please us more than to see our beloved children form the habit of reading the Gospels - not merely from time to time, but every day.”

Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922 AD)

“Our one desire for all the Church’s children is that, being saturated with the Bible, they may arrive at the all surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ.”
15 September AD 1920 , Spiritus Paraclitus

He repeated St. Jerome’s statement:
“Ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”

Vatican II : 1965 AD

“21. The Church has always venerated the Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God’s Word and of Christ’s Body. She has always maintained them, and continues to do so, together with sacred tradition, as the supreme rule of faith, since, as inspired by God and committed once and for all to writing, they impart the Word of God Himself without change, and make the voice of the Holy Spirit resound in the words of the prophets and Apostles. Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them; and the force and power in the word of God is so great that it stands as the support and energy of the Church, the strength of faith for her sons, the food of the soul, the pure and everlasting source of spiritual life. Consequently these words are perfectly applicable to sacred Scripture: ‘For the word of God is living and active’ (Heb. 4:12) and ‘it has power to build you up and give you your heritage among all those who are sanctified’ ” (Acts 20:32; see 1 Thess. 2:13).”
[DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION (DEI VERBUM) 1965 AD]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.

catholic-convert.com/2010/03/03/catholic-church-dont-read-the-bible/

 

[Bookcat]

Pope Benedict XVI Weds Audience Nov 15th 2007 ( Regarding St. Jerome 4th Cent)

Truly “in love” with the Word of God, he asked himself: “How could one live without the knowledge of Scripture, through which one learns to know Christ himself, who is the life of believers?” (Ep. 30, 7). The Bible, an instrument “by which God speaks every day to the faithful” (Ep. 133, 13), thus becomes a stimulus and source of Christian life for all situations and for each person. To read Scripture is to converse with God: “If you pray”, he writes to a young Roman noblewoman, “you speak with the Spouse; if you read, it is he who speaks to you” (Ep. 22, 25). The study of and meditation on Scripture renders man wise and serene (cf. In Eph., Prol.). Certainly, to penetrate the Word of God ever more profoundly, a constant and progressive application is needed. Hence, Jerome recommends to the priest Nepotian: “Read the divine Scriptures frequently; rather, may your hands never set the Holy Book down. Learn here what you must teach” (Ep. 52, 7). To the Roman matron Leta he gave this counsel for the Christian education of her daughter: “Ensure that each day she studies some Scripture passage… After prayer, reading should follow, and after reading, prayer… Instead of jewels and silk clothing, may she love the divine Books” (Ep. 107, 9, 12). Through meditation on and knowledge of the Scriptures, one “maintains the equilibrium of the soul” (Ad Eph., Prol.). Only a profound spirit of prayer and the Holy Spirit’s help can introduce us to understanding the Bible: “In the interpretation of Sacred Scripture we always need the help of the Holy Spirit” (In Mich. 1, 1, 10, 15).

A passionate love for Scripture therefore pervaded Jerome’s whole life, a love that he always sought to deepen in the faithful, too. He recommends to one of his spiritual daughters: “Love Sacred Scripture and wisdom will love you; love it tenderly, and it will protect you; honour it and you will receive its caresses. May it be for you as your necklaces and your earrings” (Ep. 130, 20). And again: “Love the science of Scripture, and you will not love the vices of the flesh” (Ep. 125, 11).

For Jerome, a fundamental criterion of the method for interpreting the Scriptures was harmony with the Church’s Magisterium. We should never read Scripture alone because we meet too many closed doors and could easily slip into error. The Bible has been written by the People of God and for the People of God under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Only in this communion with the People of God do we truly enter into the “we”, into the nucleus of the truth that God himself wants to tell us. For him, an authentic interpretation of the Bible must always be in harmonious accord with the faith of the Catholic Church. It is not a question of an exegesis imposed on this Book from without; the Book is really the voice of the pilgrim People of God and only in the faith of this People are we “correctly attuned” to understand Sacred Scripture. Therefore, Jerome admonishes: “Remain firmly attached to the traditional doctrine that you have been taught, so that you can preach according to right doctrine and refute those who contradict it” (Ep. 52, 7). In particular, given that Jesus Christ founded his Church on Peter, every Christian, he concludes, must be in communion “with St Peter’s See. I know that on this rock the Church is built” (Ep. 15, 2). Consequently, without equivocation, he declared: “I am with whoever is united to the teaching of St Peter” (Ep. 16).

Pope Benedict XVI Audience Oct 28 2009

…is also important to set aside a certain period each day for meditation on the Bible, so that the word of God may be a light that illumines our daily pilgrimage on earth.

Pope Benedict XVI Address to Synod of Bishops Oct 6 2008

Furthermore, the Word of God is the foundation of everything, it is the true reality. And to be realistic, we must rely upon this reality. We must change our idea that matter, solid things, things we can touch, are the more solid, the more certain reality. At the end of the Sermon on the Mount the Lord speaks to us about the two possible foundations for building the house of one’s life: sand and rock. The one who builds on sand builds only on visible and tangible things, on success, on career, on money. Apparently these are the true realities. But all this one day will pass away. We can see this now with the fall of large banks: this money disappears, it is nothing. And thus all things, which seem to be the true realities we can count on, are only realities of a secondary order. The one who builds his life on these realities, on matter, on success, on appearances, builds upon sand. Only the Word of God is the foundation of all reality, it is as stable as the heavens and more than the heavens, it is reality. Therefore, we must change our concept of realism. The realist is the one who recognizes the Word of God, in this apparently weak reality, as the foundation of all things. Realist is the one who builds his life on this foundation, which is permanent….

……exegesis, the true reading of Holy Scripture, is not only a literary phenomenon, not only reading a text. It is the movement of my existence. It is moving towards the Word of God in the human words. Only by conforming ourselves to the Mystery of God, to the Lord who is the Word, can we enter within the Word, can we truly find the Word of God in human words. Let us pray to the Lord that he may help us search the word, not only with our intellect but also with our entire existence.

 

[Bookcat]

Some Quotes from Pope Benedict XVI on Lectio Divina

“Note what Saint Jerome said in this regard: “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” (PL 24,17; cf Dei Verbum, 25). A time-honoured way to study and savour the word of God is lectio divina which constitutes a real and veritable spiritual journey marked out in stages. After the lectio, which consists of reading and rereading a passage from Sacred Scripture and taking in the main elements, we proceed to meditatio. This is a moment of interior reflection in which the soul turns to God and tries to understand what his word is saying to us today. Then comes oratio in which we linger to talk with God directly. Finally we come to contemplatio. This helps us to keep our hearts attentive to the presence of Christ whose word is “a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts” (2 Pet 1:19). Reading, study and meditation of the Word should then flow into a life of consistent fidelity to Christ and his teachings.”
(Message to the Youth of World Youth Day 9 April 2006)

“Among the many fruits of this biblical springtime I would like to mention the spread of the ancient practice of Lectio divina or “spiritual reading” of Sacred Scripture. It consists in pouring over a biblical text for some time, reading it and rereading it, as it were, “ruminating” on it as the Fathers say and squeezing from it, so to speak, all its “juice”, so that it may nourish meditation and contemplation and, like water, succeed in irrigating life itself.

One condition for Lectio divina is that the mind and heart be illumined by the Holy Spirit, that is, by the same Spirit who inspired the Scriptures, and that they be approached with an attitude of “reverential hearing”.” Angelus Nov 6 2005

 

[mark_a]

She said she was taught how to interpret the Bible and has been for x amount of years, etc.

She has out right told me that “You do not know God!”. She insists upon bringing the subject up again and again even though she has the last word and now the first and only words again and again.

She than acted like I had committed some kind of sacrilege.

She sounds like a good candidate for the female priesthood.

 

[daughterofeve]

I think you may have hit on the issue I have been trying to understand since last night.

What one person may take as boasting, may only be as a result of another person having more knowledge in that area and under questioning imparting that knowledge.

I wrote “boast”. I know what it means. I did not write we “Catholics” distrust those that engage in educated discussion about the Bible. Since I had no prior knowledge of your discussion, it was not an accusation, but a generalization, just as you generalized “Catholics” as being distrusting.

Why do you suppose that those people that give up their time to evangelize would just choose to distrust you? I suppose it had nothing to do with the manner in which that knowledge was imparted?

Believe it or not, we “Catholics” read the Bible regularly and study it intently. After all it is a product of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

May God bless you in your candidacy.

 

[Lightbee]

I wrote “boast”. I know what it means. I did not write we “Catholics” distrust those that engage in educated discussion about the Bible. Since I had no prior knowledge of your discussion, it was not an accusation, but a generalization, just as you generalized “Catholics” as being distrusting.

Why do you suppose that those people that give up their time to evangelize would just choose to distrust you? I suppose it had nothing to do with the manner in which that knowledge was imparted?

Believe it or not, we “Catholics” read the Bible regularly and study it intently. After all it is a product of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

May God bless you in your candidacy.

I think you may have misunderstood me. I did not think your comment was an accusation by any means. I meant that your comment illuminated for me how I felt the situation was perceived and helped me to articulate that more fully.

I do not doubt your statement at all that there are Catholics who read and study the bible regularly. However, at least two people in the group that I was in stated point blank that they did not read the bible at all (though they did hear the readings in Mass) until they were in their 50s, and that it was not integral to their faith.

I’m very pleased to hear that that view is not a universal one. I must admit to feeling very disturbed as a result of that discussion.

 

[JRKH]

I think you may have misunderstood me. I did not think your comment was an accusation by any means. I meant that your comment illuminated for me how I felt the situation was perceived and helped me to articulate that more fully.

I do not doubt your statement at all that there are Catholics who read and study the bible regularly. However, at least two people in the group that I was in stated point blank that they did not read the bible at all (though they did hear the readings in Mass) until they were in their 50s, and that it was not integral to their faith.

I’m very pleased to hear that that view is not a universal one. I must admit to feeling very disturbed as a result of that discussion.

I think that people who say things like this just don’t realize how integral the Bible IS to their faith. Just because they do not personally read it does not change it’s centrality. The Bible IS integral to the faith, some just don’t recognize it in the way protestants do.

As an example, My Grandmother and Mother never read the Bible per-se either, yet each was/is a very devout Christian. My grandmother, all through her life, gave to others. When there was serious illness etc, it was “call Marie”, and Marie would go… My mother is the same. Now widowed, my mother spends at least an hour each day in prayer. Not in bible reading, because that is not her particular spirituality, but in parying th rosarry, the divind chaplet, and other devotionals. Anything asked of her she will do if she is able, not because she “read it in the bible” but because she was taught it in “The Church” (which got it from the bible)

So you see - even though catholics may not personally read (and personally interpret) the bible, does not mean that we are not well founded upon the Bible.

Peace
James

 

[daughterofeve]

I meant that your comment illuminated for me how I felt the situation was perceived and helped me to articulate that more fully.

I’m very pleased to hear that that view is not a universal one. I must admit to feeling very disturbed as a result of that discussion.

You seem sincere in the desire to understand the general attitude of “Catholics” concerning the Bible. This poster wrapped it up perfectly as far as what the Bible is to the Church:

Scripture was produced by the people of God, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the people of God. The Church (God’s people, the congregation) comes first, then comes Scripture from and for the Church.

But that doesn’t seem to be the way Protestants think. They have it the other way around. For them, it appears that the Bible exists first, and then anyone can read the Bible and from that reading, derive a church.

For a Catholic, Scripture is a tool given to the pre-existing Church for worship and evangelization.

I’m more than happy to have someone show me the Church’s interpretation of passage, particularly if they differ from what I’ve previously known. But how can we have that conversation without talking about the bible and quoting scripture?

The Church teaches interpretation is to be left up to the experts, the exegetes. (re: ccc119) We are usually bombarded with many that use the Bible against the doctrines of the Church. We are taught to avoid engaging in this type of banter. The only one that has anything to gain from anyone being led from the One True Church is the one with which no one wishes to debate either the Bible or Christianity. It is human weakness to give in to pride and to prove oneself, many have armed themselves with “wise ignorance”, which in itself is a grace. As for personal interpretation, it is to be used for encouragement and spiritual guidance only.

I think that people who say things like this just don’t realize how integral the Bible IS to their faith. Just because they do not personally read it does not change it’s centrality. The Bible IS integral to the faith, some just don’t recognize it in the way protestants do.

As an example, My Grandmother and Mother never read the Bible per-se either, yet each was/is a very devout Christian. My grandmother, all through her life, gave to others. When there was serious illness etc, it was “call Marie”, and Marie would go… My mother is the same. Now widowed, my mother spends at least an hour each day in prayer. Not in bible reading, because that is not her particular spirituality, but in parying th rosarry, the divind chaplet, and other devotionals. Anything asked of her she will do if she is able, not because she “read it in the bible” but because she was taught it in “The Church” (which got it from the bible)

So you see - even though catholics may not personally read (and personally interpret) the bible, does not mean that we are not well founded upon the Bible.

Peace
James

Yes. We are taught it is more important to live it. One does not have to quote it word for word to do so. We do many things that we have been taught and do not quote our “text books” word for word.

A little update on my “quoter convert”. I am still in contact with her. She phones regularly to ask how we handle all those usual comments “Catholics” have to endure. I tell her, “We pray”, the best prayer for that is to read the BIBLE. Then we laugh.

 

[Lightbee]

The Church teaches interpretation is to be left up to the experts, the exegetes. (re: ccc119)

CCC 119 “It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God.”

“One who practices exegesis is called an exegete.” - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis

"Exegesis is the branch of theology which investigates and expresses the true sense of Sacred Scripture. " -http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05692b.htm

By these definitions, any lay person can be an exegete. In fact some of the Doctors of the Church were certainly not in the Magisterium (thinking St Catherine of Sienna). So how would that prevent anyone from studying and learning and discussing their interpretations so that they can be “subject to the judgement of the Church”?

As for personal interpretation, it is to be used for encouragement and spiritual guidance only.

All interpretation must once have been personal interpretation. Its only that some interpretations have been judged as correct by the Church. But if those interpretations are not spoken or written, or discussed in some way, how can they ever be judged as right or wrong? And if we can’t put our thoughts on the table and ask for clarification - how can we ensure that our interpretation is correct? And why can’t one person’s interpretation not edify another’s faith?

We are usually bombarded with many that use the Bible against the doctrines of the Church. We are taught to avoid engaging in this type of banter. The only one that has anything to gain from anyone being led from the One True Church is the one with which no one wishes to debate either the Bible or Christianity. It is human weakness to give in to pride and to prove oneself, many have armed themselves with “wise ignorance”, which in itself is a grace.

While I can appreciate that sometimes the best way to avoid being led astray is to avoid the situation, surely if you’re firmly studied in your own faith and in the correct interpretation of the bible, you can discuss that with others in order that they can also see the truth?

And where is the teaching not to discuss the bible? I’ve certainly not heard any such thing in any of the homilies our priest has given.

The people of his day often challenged Jesus from the scripture. Thinking of today’s gospel reading:

Luke 10: 25 - 37​

25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

And by doing so Jesus led them to a correct understanding of God’s law and love. Why would it be wrong to do the same?

 

[daughterofeve]

I do apologize, I recant this statement:

You seem sincere in the desire to understand the general attitude of “Catholics” concerning the Bible.

I don’t know if that’s just the few people from last night, or if that is a normal Catholic stance. I would be very grateful to hear of the experiences of other Catholics - particularly “cradle Catholics” - to get a better understanding of the place of the Bible in the Catholic church.

We just explained exactly what the Bible is to the Church and you want to debate it. The teachings of the Church are not up for debate.

By these definitions, any lay person can be an exegete.

The Church seems to disagree with you, or it would say such

At my RCIA class last night we were having a discussion about “the Bible and the Church”. For me, the Bible has always been very important as it is God’s word in written form. It has also been the means by which I have been led to the Catholic church.

I understood that the topic of the evening was “The Bible and the Church”, exactly how much of this class was about “The Bible and you”? That’s where it went off subject. You have an issue with what the Bible is to the Church. You wanted to debate and that is not what RCIA is about. RCIA is to make sure you are familiar with the basic teachings of the Church, The Creed. It is up to you to decide if you if you are able to accept them. They are not there to convince you. They are evangelists not “cons”. RCIA is not scripture study, either.

I suppose one of the really hard things for me is that the book we’ve been using (not necessarily very strictly) is starting at the absolute beginning for those who have no experience with God or religion and are really starting from scratch.

Sorry it is not what you would consider “college level”. It starts at the beginning of the basis of our faith. Which you would know if you attended Mass. That’s where the Creed is recited.

While I can appreciate that sometimes the best way to avoid being led astray is to avoid the situation, surely if you’re firmly studied in your own faith and in the correct interpretation of the bible, you can discuss that with others in order that they can also see the truth?

This is what the protestants did to the Bible, that is not the reason for it’s construction. That is what we have been trying to tell you, our faith came before the Bible. We are not “sola scriptura”!!! We are taught not to do it, get it. You are not going to convince me that your way is better than the very holy Priests and Sisters that have given up their lives to teach the truths of our faith. The teachings of many Saints as well.

Your tidy educated way of stating that if we are not ready to debate scripture with the likes of you our faith is not well grounded, shows quite well. Yes, that is what you mean, do not deny it. We are taught to proclaim our faith, not debate it. We don’t have to justify our beliefs to anyone. We have the truth, we don’t have to be right. Anyone that is open to the truth will hear it when spoken. If they don’t accept it, so be it.

I think that’s quite relevant for some people. But for me I find that really hard to take as I’m quite certain of my faith in God and have only come to Catholicism after studying and questioning and becoming very certain of that faith.

Wow! Many Saints were in fear of losing their faith.

Yes. You have made it quite clear you know it all, and have nothing to learn. You have belittled what we consider graces. Our faith is built on the accumulation of virtues, none of which you have displayed, and apparently no desire of such. Sorry, these cannot be gained by book learning and unlike your degree, one can lose them.

I say just skip RCIA altogether and go straight to canonization.

 

[Crumpy]

I think the important thing to remember regarding the Catholic Church and the Bible is that, as it states in the Bible, the Church herself has the authority to maintain Tradition and all of the teachings of the faith in the Magisterium. Whereas other Christians believe the Bible is IT for religious teaching, understanding, and guidance, the true Christians know that Christ founded His Church upon the apostles, and gave them the authority.

I have heard Protestants accuse Catholics (namely, me) that the Church hierarchy doesn’t want lay people to read the Bible, but I have never heard that from another Catholic. It is important to remember, though, that the laity shouldn’t try to interpret teachings or beliefs from the Bible because we have not been properly trained to do so. However, I have always been encouraged to read the Bible as a way to strengthen faith and become more knowledgeable about the backbone of Church teachings.

Hope I was able to assist, but feel free to ask more questions and I’ll do my best to answer!

I have never heard about any prohibition about reading the Bible, either. But, then, by concidence, I have a copy of America magazine from several years ago (at least 10). There was an article on Catholic Bible Translations into English.

Well, there you go, there it was. There were battles between priests, bishops, and the Vatican on different English translations of scripture. So, there were a statement or two over the years about not reading certain translations, which were deemed to be heretical in their expressions of certain verses.

As things can and do become misconstrued, these statements about certain translations may have caused some over-reaction. But, those were not blanket statements about not reading scripture, let’s say, due to a fear of people making private interpretations of it.

As usual, I move a lot of ‘paper’ around my office, so I can’t immediately lay hands on that copy of America magazine that I am referring to, but if I come across it, I will come back here and let you know exactly the publication date. The artice is boring, by the way.

 

[JRKH]

CCC 119 “It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God.”

“One who practices exegesis is called an exegete.” - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis

"Exegesis is the branch of theology which investigates and expresses the true sense of Sacred Scripture. " -http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05692b.htm

By these definitions, any lay person can be an exegete. In fact some of the Doctors of the Church were certainly not in the Magisterium (thinking St Catherine of Sienna). So how would that prevent anyone from studying and learning and discussing their interpretations so that they can be “subject to the judgement of the Church”?

Please proceed to do so. Study and learn and compare what you glean to what the Church teaches. But be aware that in this it is necessary that where tehre are differences between what you - personally - see and what the Church officially teaches we are to submit our understanding to that of The Church.

All interpretation must once have been personal interpretation. Its only that some interpretations have been judged as correct by the Church. But if those interpretations are not spoken or written, or discussed in some way, how can they ever be judged as right or wrong? And if we can’t put our thoughts on the table and ask for clarification - how can we ensure that our interpretation is correct? And why can’t one person’s interpretation not edify another’s faith?

This is a very true statement. Many interpretations were once “personal”. These led to much deeper understandings AND to many heresies over the centuries.
The key is to recognize that the Church has already dealt with many issues and not try to reopen these. Where something is not clearly defined by The church certainly there is room for discussion.
One other thing is to recognize that there can be more than one “interpretaion” or understanding derived from the same passage. Much can depend on where someone is on otheir spiritual journey and what is going on in their life.

While I can appreciate that sometimes the best way to avoid being led astray is to avoid the situation, surely if you’re firmly studied in your own faith and in the correct interpretation of the bible, you can discuss that with others in order that they can also see the truth?

And where is the teaching not to discuss the bible? I’ve certainly not heard any such thing in any of the homilies our priest has given.

The people of his day often challenged Jesus from the scripture. Thinking of today’s gospel reading:

Luke 10: 25 - 37​

25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
And by doing so Jesus led them to a correct understanding of God’s law and love. Why would it be wrong to do the same?

If one is up to the challenge then by all means they may attempt to engage another in discussion re: the bible.
I believe that many are discouraged from doing so fro a couple of reasons.

1. Catholics in general are well aquainted with the bible, but not in the “chapter and verse” way that protestants are. So while a Catholic might be able to point up why we believe as we do, we cannot always lay our hands on the appropriate ch/vs.
2. Often times the people one meets - the street evangalizers, are not there to debate in any meaningful way. They have their specific pitch, complete with a half dozen or more specific verses just waiting for a catholic to come along. But if teh catholic calls tehm on these verses they tend to brush it off as the catholic misinterpreting blah… blah… blah…

Frankly I admire those who can engage in such debate and am particularly greatful for those protestants who have converted and have this kind of “bible knowledge”. They are a huge asset to Holy Mother Church.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

A little update on my “quoter convert”. I am still in contact with her. She phones regularly to ask how we handle all those usual comments “Catholics” have to endure. I tell her, “We pray”, the best prayer for that is to read the BIBLE. Then we laugh.

Why don’t you try to get her hooked up over here at CAF?
Maybe she can post some of teh specific comments and get some specific comebacks.

Peace
James

 

[Lightbee]

I do apologize, I recant this statement:

Quote:
You seem sincere in the desire to understand the general attitude of “Catholics” concerning the Bible.

Quote:
I don’t know if that’s just the few people from last night, or if that is a normal Catholic stance. I would be very grateful to hear of the experiences of other Catholics - particularly “cradle Catholics” - to get a better understanding of the place of the Bible in the Catholic church.

We just explained exactly what the Bible is to the Church and you want to debate it. The teachings of the Church are not up for debate.

Quote:
By these definitions, any lay person can be an exegete.

The Church seems to disagree with you, or it would say such

Quote:
At my RCIA class last night we were having a discussion about “the Bible and the Church”. For me, the Bible has always been very important as it is God’s word in written form. It has also been the means by which I have been led to the Catholic church.

I understood that the topic of the evening was “The Bible and the Church”, exactly how much of this class was about “The Bible and you”? That’s where it went off subject. You have an issue with what the Bible is to the Church. You wanted to debate and that is not what RCIA is about. RCIA is to make sure you are familiar with the basic teachings of the Church, The Creed. It is up to you to decide if you if you are able to accept them. They are not there to convince you. They are evangelists not “cons”. RCIA is not scripture study, either.

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I suppose one of the really hard things for me is that the book we’ve been using (not necessarily very strictly) is starting at the absolute beginning for those who have no experience with God or religion and are really starting from scratch.

Sorry it is not what you would consider “college level”. It starts at the beginning of the basis of our faith. Which you would know if you attended Mass. That’s where the Creed is recited.

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While I can appreciate that sometimes the best way to avoid being led astray is to avoid the situation, surely if you’re firmly studied in your own faith and in the correct interpretation of the bible, you can discuss that with others in order that they can also see the truth?

This is what the protestants did to the Bible, that is not the reason for it’s construction. That is what we have been trying to tell you, our faith came before the Bible. We are not “sola scriptura”!!! We are taught not to do it, get it. You are not going to convince me that your way is better than the very holy Priests and Sisters that have given up their lives to teach the truths of our faith. The teachings of many Saints as well.

Your tidy educated way of stating that if we are not ready to debate scripture with the likes of you our faith is not well grounded, shows quite well. Yes, that is what you mean, do not deny it. We are taught to proclaim our faith, not debate it. We don’t have to justify our beliefs to anyone. We have the truth, we don’t have to be right. Anyone that is open to the truth will hear it when spoken. If they don’t accept it, so be it.

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I think that’s quite relevant for some people. But for me I find that really hard to take as I’m quite certain of my faith in God and have only come to Catholicism after studying and questioning and becoming very certain of that faith.

Wow! Many Saints were in fear of losing their faith.

Yes. You have made it quite clear you know it all, and have nothing to learn. You have belittled what we consider graces. Our faith is built on the accumulation of virtues, none of which you have displayed, and apparently no desire of such. Sorry, these cannot be gained by book learning and unlike your degree, one can lose them.

I say just skip RCIA altogether and go straight to canonization.

I am very hurt by your statements as I have been very sincere in wanting to understand - not just be told, but truly understand - what Catholics believe about the bible. I may have debated the points you have put forward from my own understanding in an effort to gain greater understanding, but I have certainly not attacked you personally or made such uncharitable statements about your faith. I don’t understand why you feel such a need to try and put someone else down just because they approach understanding in life in a different way than you do.

 

[Lightbee]

Please proceed to do so. Study and learn and compare what you glean to what the Church teaches. But be aware that in this it is necessary that where tehre are differences between what you - personally - see and what the Church officially teaches we are to submit our understanding to that of The Church.

I have no problem with submitting to the Church’s understanding. I will confess that it doesn’t stop me wanting to know why certain teachings exist though. I’ve never been able to accept “Just because I said so” and - so far anyway - the Church doesn’t appear to make rash decisions on things “just because”. It seems when you are prepared to dig a little that the reasons for those teachings becomes clear. I’m truly searching to understand firstly what the Church teaches and why - and how that fits (or doesn’t!) with what I’ve been told for the last 35 years of my life. It’s a pretty big paradigm shift…

I believe that many are discouraged from doing so fro a couple of reasons.

1. Catholics in general are well aquainted with the bible, but not in the “chapter and verse” way that protestants are. So while a Catholic might be able to point up why we believe as we do, we cannot always lay our hands on the appropriate ch/vs…

Hmm… Good insight.

1. Often times the people one meets - the street evangalizers, are not there to debate in any meaningful way. They have their specific pitch, complete with a half dozen or more specific verses just waiting for a catholic to come along. But if teh catholic calls tehm on these verses they tend to brush it off as the catholic misinterpreting blah… blah… blah…

I can definitely see what you mean. It seems so sad that these people with their agendas create such anxiety.

Peace
James

Same to you!

 

[Lightbee]

I have never heard about any prohibition about reading the Bible, either. But, then, by concidence, I have a copy of America magazine from several years ago (at least 10). There was an article on Catholic Bible Translations into English.

Well, there you go, there it was. There were battles between priests, bishops, and the Vatican on different English translations of scripture. So, there were a statement or two over the years about not reading certain translations, which were deemed to be heretical in their expressions of certain verses.

As things can and do become misconstrued, these statements about certain translations may have caused some over-reaction. But, those were not blanket statements about not reading scripture, let’s say, due to a fear of people making private interpretations of it.

As usual, I move a lot of ‘paper’ around my office, so I can’t immediately lay hands on that copy of America magazine that I am referring to, but if I come across it, I will come back here and let you know exactly the publication date. The artice is boring, by the way.

That makes a lot of sense about things being misconstrued and people over-reacting. I wouldn’t mind having a read of that article - boring as it may be! LOL!!

 

[JustaServant]

At my RCIA class last night we were having a discussion about “the Bible and the Church”. For me, the Bible has always been very important as it is God’s word in written form. It has also been the means by which I have been led to the Catholic church.

I got the impression from the others talking (we have only 2 RCIA people, and last night 3 leaders, so we’re somewhat outnumbered) that those in the Catholic Church, particularly those in the church before Vatican II, do not have much interest in the Bible and distrust those who do read it regularly and study it intently.

I don’t know if that’s just the few people from last night, or if that is a normal Catholic stance. I would be very grateful to hear of the experiences of other Catholics - particularly “cradle Catholics” - to get a better understanding of the place of the Bible in the Catholic church.

LB,
One of the many factors that kept me out of the Church, and why I could not think of returning even when I had to admit I was no longer Protestant, was the liberalism I knew was there because I grew up Catholic.
Many of the ‘real life’ Catholics you will encounter are not like the Catholics you encounter on CAF, and in fact many have never heard of CAF. They are a product of the ‘spirit of Vatican 2’ from the 60s and 70s. If you let those kinds of people get to you, you will be in despair. You have to look beyond that to ‘wheat’ among the ‘tares’.
As to your question, the Church encourages Bible study, and in it is recomended for those devout in their faith.
Keep at it, you’re on the right track.

 

[JustaServant]

Yes. You have made it quite clear you know it all, and have nothing to learn. You have belittled what we consider graces. Our faith is built on the accumulation of virtues, none of which you have displayed, and apparently no desire of such. Sorry, these cannot be gained by book learning and unlike your degree, one can lose them.

I say just skip RCIA altogether and go straight to canonization.

Snarky and unnecessary. If you have nothing constructive to post, then stop wasting your time.

 

[twinc]

When all else is said,it is a fact that the Bible was on the index as a a danger to Catholics and most Catholics did not possess a Bible whilst most protestants did possess one or more.Even to this day Catholics are wary and suspicious of the Bible as a protestant book undermining the authority of their priests at sermons and homilies for no two priests will give exactly the same homily but the Bible says exactly the same for all and some would regard Peter and James as catholics and Paul as a Protestant.Even now Catholics not only do not study or search or even read the Bible and regard the Bible as full of errors,contradictions,exaggerations,lies,myths and fairy stories of Adam and Eve,Noahs Ark and a global flood and Jonah as a whale of a story and totally unreliable as history or science and not the inerrant word of God - btw most Catholics still do not possess a Bible or are inclined or intent to do so - twinc